Hop on over to the beta server to test out some Page 5 power updates!

[Glacier Peak]

Just now, Neiska said:

Not everyone is able to get onto the beta server for reasons for any number of possible reasons that I will not elaborate here, and I would still like my thoughts to be considered, others seem to disagree. I do concede that actual beta testing and in-game trials would be best, but I don't think that should be the only consideration worthy of note when weighing someone's feedback, especially when it's asked for. Personally I won't be participating in any future beta feedbacks.

It's all good! There are plenty of other ways to support the Homecoming team and community. And playing the game is honestly the most important part in my opinion. 

[High_Beam]

Obviously I am going to put certain pieces of this through the paces because I roll with them.  Specifically Mercs; that has me excited.  There are definitely going to be some tweaks considering the upgrade powers (on all pets) are always the default slot only.  Now maybe it gets slots.  Also I am gonna will look to see if there are trade offs that are better for some of those pet-centric DEF and RES buff Set IOs that I might now put elsewhere (plus that note about changes to the call to arms proc).  Respecs will be performed for sure.

 

I am not sure how I feel about the changes to level availability relating to powers.  It feels . . . needless but I am not going to have a drama explosion about something that is mostly about how you play.

 

I am not a big Sentinel guy (I have 1) but I will take a look there because the reason I don't really play sentinels.  I agree with a comment made by Bill Z Bubba about power creep.  But like I said, I don't really play Sentinels.

 

I have a baby Necro so those changes look interesting.

 

 

[Ruin Mage]

Black Zot reappearing to be a Negative Nancy aside;

I'm interested in seeing how the level availability changes mix things up for builds & in lower level content.

Power creep is a non-issue.

[Seed23]

32 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

Not everyone is able to get onto the beta server for any number of possible reasons that I will not elaborate here, and I would still like my thoughts to be considered, others seem to disagree. I do concede that actual beta testing and in-game trials would be best, but I don't think that should be the only consideration worthy of note when weighing someone's feedback, especially when it's asked for. Personally I won't be participating in any future beta feedbacks.

I get that and am sorry that this is the outcome, but I do hope you consider in the future whenever time allows, to join in on the threads!

Edited October 5, 2022 by Seed23

[Without_Pause]

Rad/fire Brutes got hit rather hard. A bit justified due to the bugs, but yeah.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Without_Pause

[Bill Z Bubba]

21 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Time for some good old fashion testing! If you've had your fill of Trick or Treating, want to help out the volunteer team, or just like seeing what's on the horizon, log in to the beta server and test out these proposed changes for Page 5.

 

I did. Gave feedback only to see it purged from the forums. So what's the point?

[Glacier Peak]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I did. Gave feedback only to see it purged from the forums. So what's the point?

Grow thicker skin devil dog! 😁

 

But seriously, not everybody's feedback makes it in. Same thing has happened to me plenty of times, but I continue to provide feedback because I care about this community. 

[Xiddo]

14 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I did. Gave feedback only to see it purged from the forums. So what's the point?

Depends. Do you think you follow the rules? Like, do you think you might’ve been a bit snarky at all?

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Xiddo

[Ruin Mage]

Glacier Peak is the golden standard for testers imo.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Glacier Peak said:

Grow thicker skin devil dog! 😁

 

But seriously, not everybody's feedback makes it in. Same thing has happened to me plenty of times, but I continue to provide feedback because I care about this community. 

 

Good for you. From what I'm seeing of what's left of the old community, we've got with those that agree with the devs and those that don't who are told to STFU and go away. Then do. Thus the current anemic active player population.

[Glacier Peak]

1 minute ago, Shadeknight said:

Glacier Peak is the golden standard for testers imo.

 

😁

Spoiler

 

[Glacier Peak]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

Good for you. From what I'm seeing of what's left of the old community, we've got with those that agree with the devs and those that don't who are told to STFU and go away. Then do. Thus the current anemic active player population.

I'm not going to say you are right or wrong - and I can see how polarizing two sides makes an argument easier - but in reality, everyone who plays this game is a part of this community. Whether they say everything the Homecoming team does is awful or if they sing their praise with every post. The game has been back around for a few years now, a lot of old players returned, found their fill, and departed - new players are wondering in to try out this game and still need the guidance that a community can provide - whether its in game, on the forums, or on Discord. 

 

And there is the ignore function for everything else!

 

😄 

[Ruin Mage]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Good for you. From what I'm seeing of what's left of the old community, we've got with those that agree with the devs and those that don't who are told to STFU and go away. Then do. Thus the current anemic active player population.

Honestly, anything can get people who agree with the developers. Happens all the time to actual studio'd games. It's just part of the cycle.

Personally, I don't really enjoy telling others to fuck off but if they can't and won't add anything constructive to beta testing then why are they here? If HC's changes are that miserable for them, then why do they continue to inflict that self-imposed suffering?

Yes, you get people telling others to fuck off - which is a bit much. But pointing out there are other servers that may be more their speed isn't really an issue. Pointing people to a place where they might find more enjoyment is a nice thing to do!

The STFU part is more... towards those who refuse to test and harp on negatively without adding anything to the conversation. Or who just read patch notes and instead of giving it a whirl they immediately go 0 to 100 on the Negative Nancy meter.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

The STFU part is more... towards those who refuse to test and harp on negatively without adding anything to the conversation. Or who just read patch notes and instead of giving it a whirl they immediately go 0 to 100 on the Negative Nancy meter.

 

I did log on to beta. Ran one of Mr Gs missions. Killed a pylon. Therefore I tested the changes. Apparently my sin was replying to those that replied to me and branching out of the exact thread topic to cover the wider issue of constant power-creep which you have stated repeatedly isn't a real issue. Which is just a kinder way of saying STFU.

 

But in the end, it doesn't matter. I'm just another forum poster that barely plays the game at all anymore. More than likely, this last round of changes on top of the attitudes around here will mean nothing more than me being one less person that bothers with either at all.

[Ruin Mage]

Posts get deleted if they violate the pinned topic's rules:

Could have been the power creep argument that got obliterated or it was veering elsewhere, who knows.

[Troo]

5 hours ago, Black Zot said:

They could at least be honest about their intentions with the threads and call them "Bug Testing: X Change". 

 

Yeah, you have a point.

Things are pretty baked in by the time most get to provide feedback and it's a little misleading to the uninitiated who think "oh wow, they're asking for my thoughts and opinions".

That said, they do read the feedback.

While feedback has never stopped sweeping global PvP changes made for a select few, other catastrophes have been adverted through focus feedback. Dark Armor.. AE Vet levels..

 

5 hours ago, Xiddo said:

I dunno. I’m optimistic that if you actually test it then your feedback will be listened to. There were wiggles last time if you raised good points respectfully, after testing it, and could make a well thought out argument. Attitude plays a lot in this I think.

 

awww, I like the positive pluckiness.

 

 

[Xiddo]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

awww, I like the positive pluckiness.

keeps me young, it’s half the skin care routine 😉 

[Ruin Mage]

Last page's collective shit-the-bed at the Attack Type Changes (as an example besides the VL/Emp Merit stuff) shows that feedback needs to be carefully picked from.

A number (idk, i'm no statician) of folks would rather HC be stale and dead than move forward. Or otherwise think the devs should work on things the community wants (which is a bad idea on its own) - without any other word or say.

[Glacier Peak]

13 minutes ago, Troo said:

While feedback has never stopped sweeping global PvP changes made for a select few

Good lord Troo give it a rest.

 

The entire PvP Community literally asked, tested out, and benefited for those changes you are alluding to. Do you know how difficult it is to bring consensus on a power change that a small minority of the player base even cares about testing? All you need to test out PvE changes is an NPC somewhere, but for PvP, you actually need another person to attack and defend against to determine the validity of the change. This was done over a period of months, with minor changes made and rolled back and voted on. It was not done by some cabal or secret society you seem to always allude to in your posts. And I don't care if you don't believe me, sign up for the Homecoming PvP Discord and you can see the posts for yourself...

 

Spoiler

=========

 

So I'll answer that rhetorical for you - no you have no idea. There have been a few players who have stepped up over the past three years in this community to get PvP in a place where the majority of the community can enter without barrier and enjoy this gameplay mechanic with friends or in a competitive setting (looking at @CR Americas Angel @CR Banana Man @Smallz @M3z). There are things that cannot be changed, no matter how many times you or anyone else asks - there just isn't enough volunteer developers to make it happen. 

[Seed22]

What I've learned from these pages is that whoever told me how to ignore people on the forums is a legit god send

[Ruin Mage]

Indeed.

[Troo]

41 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

The entire PvP Community literally asked

 

Dear whiteknighter, if even a handful of folks didn't ask for it, it's not the entire community.

 

41 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

This was done over a period of months, with minor changes made and rolled back and voted on.

 

There was a vote? I'm pretty active on these forums, but i do miss a thing or two.

Oh, you have to be part of a subgroup outside the official forum.. see it's not really me alluding to it.

 

Didn't mean for my glib remark to trigger you.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Troo

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Dear whiteknighter, if even a handful of folks didn't ask for it, it's not the entire community.

 

 

There was a vote? I'm pretty active on these forums, but i do miss a thing or two.

Oh, you have to be part of a subgroup outside the official forum.. see it's not really me alluding to it.

 

Didn't mean for my glib remark to trigger you.

Regarding "give it a rest", nah.

But I'll make you a deal: When the fake-accolade vendor shows up villain side in Siren's Call the way it shows up everywhere else, I'll consider that a tiny smidge of compromise.

Try harder 😆 

 

Edit: I better add further context...

Spoiler

 

... "If you win enough battles, we'll have plenty of goods to sell again!"

Edited October 5, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[Neiska]

59 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Or who just read patch notes and instead of giving it a whirl they immediately go 0 to 100 on the Negative Nancy meter.

 

I am going to respectfully disagree here Shade and have to side with @Bill Z Bubba on this one. The first time I spoke up about a beta change was met with, well, lets call it passionate disagreement, both here and in discord the details of which I will not get into here save that it was bad enough in DMs that a ticket was filed. 

 

As far as "beta or get out" - not everyone "can" get into the beta. I can't. But I wanted to be a part of the conversation. I was going to go into the parts that I liked, and the parts I didn't like, and put light on non-performance things. In this example, the robotics' update. I was trying to highlight that by moving the -regen from the t3 robot to the MM personal attacks is a bit harsh, because now not only must you spend END on an already END penalized AT, but you have to spend power and enhancement slots to boot. Which makes it more difficult to get other things expected of you, such as group fly, or fold space.

 

It wasn't all doom and gloom. There were some aspects I really liked. Like the new maintenance drone? Thats awesome for sets like cold or sonic that don't have a heal. Resists moved to Upgrade Robot? Also awesome. True your pets are weaker until you get that power (at like level 6), but by being able to slot it and boost it, its an overall net gain, should you choose to do so. I made zero comment about the pets themselves, because as I said, I wasn't in the Beta, and thus can't fairly comment either way on that. No more KB to KD tax? Wonderful! 3 more slots to use. So I was giving input on the things that I could, that didn't rely on playtesting or numbers.

 

So I would mutually ask that people on both sides keep an open mind here. You don't have full access to the reaction, be it positive or negative. Neither do I. None of us do. But Bill is right. If you disagree or even point out things that may have been overlooked or a different perspective on things, even if those things aren't numbers/damage, well, it was bad enough that I certainly won't participate in beta again. I don't care to be mocked or insulted when I give my opinion, particularly when it was asked for by the staff. If it was "lets agree to disagree," I could live with that. But it wasn't. And I have noticed a pattern - Anytime there is a big change, be it in inf/exp, or power updates/betas, it brought out the worst in the community. And I would call that an indicator of something else as well.

 

 

[Ruin Mage]

But if you're only reading the patch notes and reacting off of that then that's not helpful. That's not the sort of feedback that's generally looked for - unless there's something to contradict that. That's entirely what made the last page a mess on Attack Type Changes (as an example) and is making feedback on the Levels for Powers change get bogged down - by people going only off the patch notes. If you can't put in the minimal effort to actually give it a shot, then one should not be surprised if people get a bit snippy (even if they shouldn't) - given prior experiences with past pages.

It brings out the worst because people don't want to test - which is the entire point it goes to Open Beta in the first place. They're looking to adjust/improve the changes, or if its really that universally bad, take another crack at it. They're not looking for Random Forum Poster's wall of text about their thoughts from patch notes alone. If that's what they worked off of, we'd be in a way worse position IMO.

Patch Notes -> Feedback tells the devs nothing. It has no real good impact on what's working and what isn't. They're not looking for "I don't like this despite never testing it out.", and that's how it's always worked. Not everyone can access/wants to access beta, sure, but they should give up the ability to give feedback until it hits live. That, while harsh, is just the nature of things - you can't and shouldn't have it both ways.

Image attached has some relevance.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Shadeknight