Bring back an old Favorite.

[Shad0hawK]

Hello all, i do not post on the forums much but i have had an idea ratteling around my head (that happens occasionally) and that is:

 

rebuild Galaxy City. this should not be too difficult with existing models (particularly from Praetoria) and the opportunities for content creation are virtually endless.

[Rudra]

This has been brought up a few times. The issue is the story's current progression. Galaxy City has been obliterated with the Neo-Shivans arrival. The story needs to progress to the point where Galaxy City is reclaimed and then rebuilt. Like with Faultline and Boomtown where reconstruction has started but has not progressed because the story has not gotten that far yet.

[Greycat]

Wouldn't argue with it (I liked starting in Galaxy when it was an option,) but ... probably more work than you think.

[Rudra]

How would Silos or anyone else change where Battalion lands its first wave? There is no access to off-world events to change that.

 

Edit: Basically, with Ouroboros, the players and Menders are attempting to change things on-planet to better enable the world to fight back against Battalion. Nothing being done in Ouroboros has any impact on what Battalion and its forces do, just what position the world is in when the invasion finally hits.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Rudra

[Shad0hawK]

you guys have some great ideas! retake the area from the Neo Shivans, who are also in conflict with other factions, with A LOT of detail in between. heck, maybe even a TF or two! then Maggie's Rock gets reclaimed...a little at a time...

[Arc-Mage]

You can still visit the old Galaxy City via the back side portal in Ouroboros.  

[Ravenwulfe]

9 hours ago, Krimson said:

Hand wave it as Mender Silos messing with the time stream. Then you open up the possibility of Dream Doctor starting a war with Ourobouros over it.

Technically the attack on Galaxy City is because of Silos, when we go to the future to avert the attack on Atlas Park instead.

[Greycat]

12 hours ago, Arc-Mage said:

You can still visit the old Galaxy City via the back side portal in Ouroboros.  

 

Except you:

- Can't start there.

- Have no contacts there.

- Can't run missions there.

- Can't even train there.

 

So... "You can see the echo zone in Ouro" is missing the point of this.

[Rudra]

Do what someone suggested on another thread: put BABs back on his trainer pedestal in Echo:Galaxy City. Since the Echo zones are there so players can still street sweep in them to get xp and experience the zone, having access to a trainer makes sense. Still should be no contacts or missions for Echoes though. And I will always be against any suggestion that ignores the story such as simply restoring Galaxy City per the OP.

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 And I will always be against any suggestion that ignores the story such as simply restoring Galaxy City per the OP.

 

Well, there's restoring and there's restoring... or, rather, restoring and reverting.

 

Sounds like you're against reverting, which - yeah, I can get. "WHAM" ooh, it's back now is a bit jarring.

 

Restoring, a la Faultline (though that was a little sudden) - I've been suggesting stuff like that for, say, boomtown since live. Something that literally builds it back into the game. Lot more work, though.

[Rudra]

Yeah, story progression is a good thing. No argument there.

[laudwic]

If you look at the HeroCorps Announcement in the other forum:

 

 

They specifically mention Galaxy City.  "So today we have re-opened our doors in Paragon City to bring our resources in the time of Galaxy City's need. If you need someone, we'll be there. Look for a shining beacon of hope in these dark times."  

 

I'm thinking they may already be up to something about Galaxy City. . . .

[Arc-Mage]

7 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Except you:

- Can't start there.

- Have no contacts there.

- Can't run missions there.

- Can't even train there.

 

So... "You can see the echo zone in Ouro" is missing the point of this.

You can still run Badges and meet with your friends. 😀

[The Caretaker]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:24 PM, laudwic said:

If you look at the HeroCorps Announcement in the other forum:

 

 

They specifically mention Galaxy City.  "So today we have re-opened our doors in Paragon City to bring our resources in the time of Galaxy City's need. If you need someone, we'll be there. Look for a shining beacon of hope in these dark times."  

 

I'm thinking they may already be up to something about Galaxy City. . . .

 

Can neither confirm nor deny that shenanigans are or are not afoot in the ruined hellscape that is or was Galaxy City, should it exist.

[Glacier Peak]

34 minutes ago, The Caretaker said:

Can neither confirm nor deny that shenanigans are or are not afoot in the ruined hellscape that is or was Galaxy City, should it exist.

Hypothetically, of course.

[Shad0hawK]

I figured I would revisit this topic. what i was suggesting is not just bringing back the old Galaxy City as it was, but rebuilding it to something new. The creative options are endless. I would make it more 50+ level content rather than another starting point, something like was done with Faultline in a way.

[ThatGuyCDude]

Revisiting Galaxy as a level 50 zone, even blown to bits, would be a nice bookend to the tutorial option that starts you there.  It's certainly a zone that could be explored for new end-game content.

I'm left wondering, though... why can't Echo versions of zones have missions in them?  They're in a temporal bubble anyway; just set 'em up in the same way the Flashback system works.  Or is it because the content itself no longer exists (scrubbed during the NCSoft era)?

[Chris24601]

Check out Piecemeal’s personal story (Redside). The Devs have already begun turning it into what is likely to be an Incarnate zone where normal folks are falling to ash, powered people feel weakened, gravity is misbehaving, and the Neo-Shivans are building some sort of portal or transmitter.

[Rudra]

35 minutes ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

Revisiting Galaxy as a level 50 zone, even blown to bits, would be a nice bookend to the tutorial option that starts you there.  It's certainly a zone that could be explored for new end-game content.

I'm left wondering, though... why can't Echo versions of zones have missions in them?  They're in a temporal bubble anyway; just set 'em up in the same way the Flashback system works.  Or is it because the content itself no longer exists (scrubbed during the NCSoft era)?

The echoes lack their own missions because they don't exist any more. They aren't kept in a temporal bubble. There was a reason why they weren't just deleted when they were updated, but they are there because they weren't simply deleted for whatever that reason was. And because the echoes are no longer part of the current story line, there are no missions in (most of) them. Players can still go experience them, but they are not alternate means of experiencing the game. They are just there so players can go back to the old versions of those zones. (The content itself exists in the current version of those zones. Galaxy City does not have a current version so its arcs/missions are gone, and the hazard zones never had their own arcs/missions, so they weren't carried over, but existing versions of previous zones still have their old missions/arcs. You just aren't directly sent to them any more.)

[megaericzero]

Just thinking out loud:

Since the old "levels = time" progression standard was abandoned later in the game's life back on live (and understandably so - I'm not saying it was an intrinsically bad idea but I do think the original devs gave up the ghost way too thoroughly and too easily), I wonder what it would've been like if the they had treated some of these zone revamps/repurposes as alternate zones instead.

 

For instance, having Galaxy City (what is now an echo) remain the same and instead adding Destroyed Galaxy City in the mid-range (teens-20s?) with Neo Galaxy City at endgame - all as separate zones. Similarly, leaving Dark Astoria (now echo) as-is and adding Darker Astoria (current DA) as its own zone. Heck, lump the newer Atlas and Mercy stories as content in the same level range as Destroyed GC but have them in AP/MI at that higher level range with phasing instead - the old Atlas and Mercy being the same for starting heroes/villains and the newer arcs with the Arachnos/Longbow invasion taking place when the characters return to these zones later in their career.

 

In the case of being able to go backwards on a zone's timeline (eg: visiting GC after playing through DGC content), perhaps having a character flag that changes the loading screen and other display elements to "Echo: Galaxy City" and removing it from things like the transit line until you have the Entrusted with the Secret badge. Then when you get to Galaxy City 2: Electric Boogaloo, it flags Destroyed to also have the "Echo:" prefix.

 

The separate zone idea could work with respect to the thread topic. As of current, you can't revisit the destroyed Galaxy as a zone and the Shining Stars arc is pretty low level, so no continuity concerns with adding at least a fully-rebuilt Galaxy as its own zone.

Edited April 7 by megaericzero

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

For instance, having Galaxy City (what is now an echo) remain the same and instead adding Destroyed Galaxy City as a mid-range zone (teens-20s?) with Neo Galaxy City at endgame - all as separate zones.

Doing that runs into the same problem CO has with different stages of the same zone. You can be in Apocalypse (whatever that city is called), exit, go to after Apocalypse version (where you are now back in time trying to prevent the apocalypse), and still have the pre-Apocalypse version of the zone that you go to in order to finish some missions. It breaks immersion and story in a really bad way. And in CO's case, they at least made some effort to force you into only 1 version of that zone, but they failed to account for all the ways you can access all 3 versions at once. And now you are introducing 3 simultaneously active versions of the same zone, so characters can just freely move between them without being locked into 1 unlike what CO tried.

 

12 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Heck, lump the newer Atlas and Mercy stories as content in the same level range as Destroyed GC but have them in AP/MI with phasing instead.

This part has been discussed in other threads. I am disinclined to repeat myself, so I'll just say that the phasing has issues, starting with having 2 of the same contact in the zone that you will be able to find/see even if they are both in differently phased maps.

 

Also, they are still rebuilding Boomtown and Faultline, and those have been under construction for far longer than Galaxy City. ( Edit : Especially since Galaxy City is still in the immediate aftermath phase. So they haven't even begun assessing the damage to the zone yet, let alone starting clean up for rebuilding.) So you shouldn't see a rebuilt Galaxy City until after those 2 zones are done rebuilding. The city doesn't have infinite funds, personnel, or materials for rebuilding.

 

Edited April 8 by Rudra
Edited to add missing closing parenthesis.

[megaericzero]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Doing that runs into the same problem CO has with different stages of the same zone. You can be in Apocalypse (whatever that city is called), exit, go to after Apocalypse version (where you are now back in time trying to prevent the apocalypse), and still have the pre-Apocalypse version of the zone that you go to in order to finish some missions. It breaks immersion and story in a really bad way. And in CO's case, they at least made some effort to force you into only 1 version of that zone, but they failed to account for all the ways you can access all 3 versions at once. And now you are introducing 3 simultaneously active versions of the same zone, so characters can just freely move between them without being locked into 1 unlike what CO tried.

Er, right. That's why I mentioned in the next paragraph protecting people's immersion by having the game flag "older" versions of zones as echoes in name once your character touches content that progresses their stories. We already have the in-game lore (handwave-y as it is) that Ouroboros is giving you the ability to visit via the pillar.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

This part has been discussed in other threads. I am disinclined to repeat myself, so I'll just say that the phasing has issues, starting with having 2 of the same contact in the zone that you will be able to find/see even if they are both in differently phased maps.

I'm eminently aware. My whole post was a hypothetical on an alternate way to have implemented this stuff, presuming that version would be no jankier than what we have now; it wasn't an actual suggestion to retcon the Altas/Mercy streamline storyarcs from how they are now.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Also, they are still rebuilding Boomtown and Faultline, and those have been under construction for far longer than Galaxy City. ( Edit : Especially since Galaxy City is still in the immediate aftermath phase. So they haven't even begun assessing the damage to the zone yet, let alone starting clean up for rebuilding.) So you shouldn't see a rebuilt Galaxy City until after those 2 zones are done rebuilding. The city doesn't have infinite funds, personnel, or materials for rebuilding.

I never intended to imply Galaxy would or should be rebuilt now^TM. Just talking about if-and-when. Whether or not (and how) Boomtown and Faultline progress is another matter. Since you mention it, though, I can see Overbrook taking a lot longer to rebuild even if it's fully funded given the sheer depth to which the bedrock is shattered. Most of the zone is basically a bowl of loose rocks twice the height of skyscrapers.

[Rudra]

32 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Er, right. That's why I mentioned in the next paragraph protecting people's immersion by having the game flag "older" versions of zones as echoes in name once your character touches content that progresses their stories. We already have the in-game lore (handwave-y as it is) that Ouroboros is giving you the ability to visit via the pillar.

Except doing so adds a whole new layer of coding complexity. Right now, old zone maps are removed from the active zone and left accessible via Ouroboros as an echo. You're talking about doing that dynamically, as dictated by each given character's actions. Which then runs into the added problem of which versions is an echo or active zone  when you have up to 8 people on a team that can have different versions of the zone as echoes. This is a much more complicated thing than just the phase mechanics the game already uses, and the phase mechanics are... broken....

[megaericzero]

Erm, I think you're misunderstanding or overcomplicating it.

 

In the hypothetical, we have two or three zones. Using the GC example, we have original Galaxy City for level range 1-5, Destroyed Galaxy City for (let's say) 25-30, and New Galaxy City for 50+. When you meet whatever trigger is used - whether that's simply entering DGC's level range, setting foot in the zone, touching its first zone-related storyarc, or whatever else is considered the best indicator of crossing the threshold - your character earns an internal flag telling the UI to, from now on, display "Echo: Galaxy City" for original GC's loading screen and name listings (player search, etc.). Then when you reach the trigger for NGC to be your "current" version, the game puts another flag so that DGC now displays in the UI as "Echo: Destroyed Galaxy City" in the same way.

 

It's a cosmetic change and only affects your screen. Original GC is still, for all intents and purposes, original GC - contacts, enemy spawns, amenities - it's just labeled "Echo:" and that's fine because, to you, you're time-traveling to it via Ouroboros. Anyone you meet there - NPC or player - is in your past. Any newly-rolled player characters you meet or team with there still see it as Galaxy City (no "Echo:") because that's their present-day. No need to phase anything, no need to impose a "YOU ARE SEEING THE WORLD FROM MISSION-HOLDER'S PERSPECTIVE" warnings.

 

[insert Standard Code Rant here]

 

From there, just make sure missions above the trigger level range never send you there, same as it is now. Remove the zone's listing on the tram if you want or slap an Ouroboros logo next to it to go with the prepended "Echo:" in its name.

[Rudra]

Yeah, given how things already break in this game, I don't think that is feasible. Like you said, standard code rant.