I'm not sure I get Scrapper

[Project]

So basically what I can gather is that Scrapper got a 5% crit chance against most mobs, 10% against leuts, and 15% against bosses.

They have a higher base dmg than brutes, but at about 75 Fury a brute hits harder (and lets be honest, getting high fury is not hard work), all the while a brute has better defense.

Also Stalker got a higher base dmg on their powersets, and a natural 10% crit chance against everything and crit on demand with assassin strike which hits like a truck - however, stalker got a bit more HP and defense overall than a stalker.

All in all a scrapper seems like a durable low dmg stalker while being a poor brute - whats the deal?

[Spaghetti Betty]

Well, the big one is that the Archetype Origin enhancements that Scrappers get are a massive game changer for them. The really big one being Critical Strikes: Chance for 50% Crit. You slap this in one attack and when it fires, your next 1-2 attacks (based on animation time since the proc lasts for a set duration, but 1-2 is a good rule of thumb) are more or less a surefire crit. If you understand the melee set you are using well, then this one enhancement alone can turn your Scrapper into a powerhouse.

 

Stalkers get controlled crits out of the box, so their ATOs are geared more towards optimizing those controlled opportunity strikes. But a Scrapper will (mostly) be more durable than them.

 

In my opinion, Scrapper or Brute is gonna be more of a personal choice of whether you want to sacrifice some durability for higher damage potential (Scrapper) or if you'd rather have a safer, more streamlined experience with the understanding that you'll need teammates to really see your damage numbers soar (Brute).

[Project]

3 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Well, the big one is that the Archetype Origin enhancements that Scrappers get are a massive game changer for them. The really big one being Critical Strikes: Chance for 50% Crit. You slap this in one attack and when it fires, your next 1-2 attacks (based on animation time since the proc lasts for a set duration, but 1-2 is a good rule of thumb) are more or less a surefire crit. If you understand the melee set you are using well, then this one enhancement alone can turn your Scrapper into a powerhouse.

 

Stalkers get controlled crits out of the box, so their ATOs are geared more towards optimizing those controlled opportunity strikes. But a Scrapper will (mostly) be more durable than them.

 

In my opinion, Scrapper or Brute is gonna be more of a personal choice of whether you want to sacrifice some durability for higher damage potential (Scrapper) or if you'd rather have a safer, more streamlined experience with the understanding that you'll need teammates to really see your damage numbers soar (Brute).

cool - thanks 🙂

[roleki]

Someone will come along and post a much more eloquent and informed response, but, in my opinion the Scrapper ATOs are what separate them from the other melee classes The Superior Critical Strikes proc slotted in your second-hardest hitting power quasi-virtually guarantees a proc hit that gives your next attack a 50% chance to crit.  With a proper attack chain, the Scrapper can basically do sustained burst damage; they're a little squishy for a melee type, but, in this case the best defense is a good offense.

 

ETA: What spaghetti said.

Edited October 28, 2022 by roleki

[Hopeling]

Scrappers have higher base damage than stalkers, not lower. Stalkers also generally give up an AoE attack for AS, so depending on the primary they are somewhere between a little worse and a LOT worse at general group clearing than the corresponding scrapper set.

 

In addition to the ATO thing, a scrapper's higher base damage means then benefit substantially more from damage buffs than a Brute does; for example, an Elec/Shield scrapper's telenukes will be noticeably superior to a brute's since you use those attacks during Build Up. Brutes do have a higher damage cap, but even at their respective caps the brute still doesn't hit as hard once you count crits, and the brute cap is harder to reach than the scrapper cap is. This is perhaps the reason Super Strength has been unavailable to scrappers for so long; as powerful as Rage is on a tanker or brute, it would be even more busted on a scrapper because of how much we benefit from damage buffs.

[SomeGuy]

3 hours ago, Project said:

All in all a scrapper seems like a durable low dmg stalker while being a poor brute - whats the deal?

 

Don't think. Just punch/stab/kick. Repeat. Get yelled at in team chat for not listening.

[Aracknight]

Scrapper paved the way for all the ridiculous shit others do now.  Solo avs?  Gms?  Half the map? A mission for a whole team? A task force?  Scrappers asked the questions and then went out and got the answers.  And the answers were Fuck.  Yes.

 

Numbers be damned.  Scrapper is a lifestyle.  

 

 

[Erratic1]

3 hours ago, Project said:

So basically what I can gather is that Scrapper got a 5% crit chance against most mobs, 10% against leuts, and 15% against bosses.

They have a higher base dmg than brutes, but at about 75 Fury a brute hits harder (and lets be honest, getting high fury is not hard work), all the while a brute has better defense.

Also Stalker got a higher base dmg on their powersets, and a natural 10% crit chance against everything and crit on demand with assassin strike which hits like a truck - however, stalker got a bit more HP and defense overall than a stalker.

All in all a scrapper seems like a durable low dmg stalker while being a poor brute - whats the deal?

 

1. Scrappers have higher base damage than Brutes. At 75 Fury a Brute is still behind a Scrapper for delivered damage.
2. Brutes have a higher resistance cap but the exact same defense cap as a Scrapper. So a scrapper built to hit max defense is as protected as a brute doing the same. The two ways the brute can pull ahead are (a) higher high points and (b) getting beyond the scrapper 75% resistance cap.
3. Exceeding the 75% resistance cap on a Brute is difficult to do without relying on IO set bonuses. So unless you load up on IOs at a fairly low level, the higher resistance cap of the Brute is not going to enter play until you lean into them. As example, my most recent Brute to hit 50 (last weekend) is only now hitting 75% resistance with the help of IOs. Yeah, in the end he'll have capped defenses and hit 90% on Smash/Lethal resistance (and won't exceed the scrapper cap on any other type of damage) but that gap in survivability is the tradeoff Scrappers pay for higher damage.

[Gobbledigook]

Brutes can have over 3k health on some sets.

They actually get use out of powers like Unstoppable.

Team buffs really benefit Brutes.

Some powers don't crit and Brutes pull ahead with them.

Brute damage is pretty good, better than some make out.

Some sets allow the Brute to hit the 90% resistance cap easier giving much better survival than 75% capped.

Brute does not have to deal with runners like some Scrapper/stalker sets do.

A Brute is versatile and can fill the role of Tank or dps and can switch between builds to suit.

 

Scrappers do more damage and are fairly tough also.

[dzyp2]

It depends mostly on the sets you want to play. As others have stated, choosing between a stalker or scrapper comes down to where the CS proc goes and what power in the primary is lost or gained in the stalker.

As an example: ice is kinda meh on a scrapper due to a wonky st attack chain. But on stalker it keeps the cone and the pbaoe and gets a great st assassin's power. Better to play that on a stalker. Claws is the exact opposite. Stalker loses follow up which happens to be the perfect power for scrapper's CS proc. And let me tell you, there's nothing like proc'ing that and then throwing shockwave into a mob... "critical", "critical", "critical". I love playing scrappers and stalkers and have a roughly equal number of 50s between them and it usually just comes down to which set I want to play.

I have a few brutes and a single tank at 50. Usually, if I'm playing a defense-based armor set I just play a stalker/scrapper depending on primary set. If it's a resistance-based armor I want to play I'll go brute/tanker. 

[aethereal]

Some things that people have said incorrectly or partially correctly in this thread:

 

The base chance for a Scrapper to crit a boss is 10%, not 15%

 

Scrappers aren't much more durable than Stalkers -- Stalkers do have lower hit points, but they have the same defensive values as Scrappers/Brutes, and the same caps as Scrappers for resists.  When comparing Scrapper vs Stalker armor sets, Stalkers give up damage auras, taunt auras, and sometimes something else for Hide, but their actual defensive values are usually the same.

 

Everyone who is saying that Scrappers can outdamage Brutes are correct, but you have to read that with the caveat that they mean "once you have the superior ATOs slotted, and assuming you've built for global recharge and have the ATO2 slotted in a useful position.  In 1-49, Brutes will typically outdamage Scrappers (maybe with a period in the teens/twenties where Brutes can't maintain high fury due to endurance issues and so they get outdamaged by Scrappers).