Stamina

[Gobbledigook]

Just now, biostem said:

You seem to be working on the assumption that players can't or won't ask for help.  There's an entire help channel for that exact purpose, not to mention the forums or even just other players around them.  Please get out of the mindset that everything should be explicitly spelled out for you...

No, i never said that. They seem to be your own words entirely.

 

I am sure a new player will ask for help and players will keep explaining it to them. I am sure they will want to scan the forums for help also as we sometimes see. Maybe they just want to play the game though.

 

Anybody would think  i was "suggesting" a major overhaul to the game from peoples reactions lol.

 

I just wonder why we have DO's now. Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Maybe they just want to play the game though.

And if they run up against the wall of constantly running out of endurance, then just throw up their hands and ragequit, that's on them.  What, exactly, is your proposed solution?  Just eliminating what is a key aspect of creating and managing your character isn't it.  Asking for help and looking at the various resources available, should be the recourse taken...

[Gobbledigook]

16 minutes ago, biostem said:

And if they run up against the wall of constantly running out of endurance, then just throw up their hands and ragequit, that's on them.  What, exactly, is your proposed solution?  Just eliminating what is a key aspect of creating and managing your character isn't it.  Asking for help and looking at the various resources available, should be the recourse taken...

I think if you look at previous posts i did say that they they do ask for help.... quite often. I was just trying to help/simplify it for them a little. I think if you read further i toyed with a few ideas here. There are always ways to improve.

 

I also never said anything about "Eliminating" any kind of management. Once again they are your own words, you should get out of that mindset. My idea was much less grand lol.

 

My small suggestion may not agree with people but this does not need to escalate into some big argument as threads usually do. If you don't like it say why, move on and let the thread die.

[Hyperstrike]

On 11/26/2022 at 7:44 PM, Gobbledegook said:

Could we please get a little increase to Stamina please or reduce the cost of some toggles.

 

It is often mentioned that during the leveling process that endurance is a big issue, especially at the lower levels.. AT's that run a lot of toggles struggle more than others. Some powerset combos can include 2 PBAoE auras that drain a lot of endurance on top of other toggles. Also we now have access to toggles earlier with the recent changes but are limited with enhances.

 

I know there are ways to help with endurance but these include IO set bonuses and unique's etc which this game is not supposed to be balanced for and so should not be required. Having to mule these sets to every new AT just so it can perform more efficiently suggests to me something is not balanced. Anyone asking for advice about endurance are usually advised to slot these IO's.

 

With the recent changes to attack types more attacks that can drain endurance may get through without these toggles? so not using certain toggles to conserve endurance may not be the best option.

 

Slotting endurance reductions is not always enough.

 

For funs sake could you increase Stamina or decrease toggles for leveling a little please? 

 

A suggestion could be that as you level then so could the endurance cost(toggles only). They would be low endurance to begin with and slowly increase as you level and gain access to better enhancements.

 

A small buff would be nice.

At low levels, Endurance is SUPPOSED to be at a premium.
Slot for EndRedux over Acc/Dam/Recharge/Resist/Defense.
Don't try to buzzsaw groups.
Stock blue inspies.

Yes, it's not as fun as massive reworking of low level End mechanics.
You're supposed to BUILD to Phenomenal Cosmic Power.
Not be godlike at  Itty Bitty Living Space.

[Gobbledigook]

13 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

At low levels, Endurance is SUPPOSED to be at a premium.
Slot for EndRedux over Acc/Dam/Recharge/Resist/Defense.
Don't try to buzzsaw groups.
Stock blue inspies.

Yes, it's not as fun as massive reworking of low level End mechanics.
You're supposed to BUILD to Phenomenal Cosmic Power.
Not be godlike at  Itty Bitty Living Space.

Yes you are probably right but i was only thinking of a very small buff as i said. It is probably me also being used to steam rolling through groups lol.

 

I don't know whether there is a thread to help new players with Slotting for endurance etc with the ideas that are in this thread? but there should be.

 

But i like your point of building to cosmic power, that does make sense and i like it. Thx.

[JasperStone]

The "buff" we got was having stamina and health. Originally, if you wanted them you had to plan them into your build.

[Gobbledigook]

22 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

The "buff" we got was having stamina and health. Originally, if you wanted them you had to plan them into your build.

I know. 👍

[Akisan]

8 hours ago, JasperStone said:

The "buff" we got was having stamina and health. Originally, if you wanted them you had to plan them into your build.

 

We also get them at level 2 now (instead of 14+ and 20+), which is a huge buff.

[Heatstroke]

On 11/29/2022 at 3:26 PM, Vanden said:

 

It's just one of those weird paradoxes of CoH. We can produce all the numbers in the world that show that attacks consume much more endurance than toggles, yet it's undeniable that it just feels like toggles are the major source of endurance problems. Adding another toggle to your build while leveling up seems to increase your endurance woes in a way another attack never does. Perhaps because most toggles don't directly contribute to damage? It's a mystery.

 

I have run a Stone Melee/Dark Armor tank that ran TEN toggles.. was able to manage that end.. 

 

The three most difficult build I have end management issues with.. 

Energy/Energy Blaster
Ice/Ice Stalker
TW/EA Scrapper

you know the common factor between those three? Attacks that drain a lot of end Super high recharge build.  most of them are 2-4 seconds off Perma hasten which means.. all the attacks recharge 70% faster.. NOT including the recharge within the powers themselves.. 

I've been saying it for years. Its NOT toggles.  I'm stunned when I see some of the builds that people make. Stamina not slotted or just slotted with the +End Proc from Performace shifter set..  So you are leaving a ton of Stamina recover off you character.  IMO every health build should get at LEAST two slots. One being a Miracle + Recovery and the other being a Numina Regen Recovery. Those two ALONE are +25% recovery bonus.

 

If you are not slotting End Redux into your attacks.. let me repeat this.. YOUR ATTACKS ARE THE PROBLEM.. 

Your attack chain without end redux will KILL your end bar faster than your toggles ever will. 

 

The average toggle drains about .26 per second.. Using a basic attack say from energy blast... its lightest possible attack is 5.36 end PER activation..  Throw in a base level AoE and you KNOW we LOVE AoEs around here Average the two AoEs.. 13 end each PER activation. Like you Nuke.. almost 28 end alone in a Nuke.. 

You got hasten to attack faster?  great.. now those powers recharge faster.. activate more often.. and DRAIN MORE END because your using them more.. oh yeah and when hasten drops.. you lose 20 end when it shuts off cause your tired.. 

 

You know how many toggles my blaster runs.. 3.. thats it.. but he regular cycles three attacks that by themselves without End redux would consume 41 end within about 3-5 seconds of time.. thats almost HALF my end bar.. 

 

And if you didnt slot and End Redux. well kiss your blue bar goodbye..  What you didnt slot Stamina.. You just took the freebie slot.. well your leaving recovery on the table.. 

 

Again., its NOT the toggles

 

 

 

[Wavicle]

When did you have end problems on an energy Blaster? These days they have perma energize…

[blue4333]

Wait till 50 and grind for Destiny - Ageless. Problem solved!

[Rudra]

If your means of dealing with END is to get Ageless, then you are pretty much limiting your ability to play to level 45+. I get that is fine with some players, but there is not as much loss in DPS as some may think if you take the time to also slot for END reduction and recovery.

[Heatstroke]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:18 AM, Wavicle said:

When did you have end problems on an energy Blaster? These days they have perma energize…

 
recently and I dont use energize for end management, I save it for the heal. Recently moved some slots around and works better now. 

 Again.. put a crap ton of recharge in a build without End Redux in attacks and watch your end bar die.. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Heatstroke

[Heatstroke]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

If your means of dealing with END is to get Ageless, then you are pretty much limiting your ability to play to level 45+. I get that is fine with some players, but there is not as much loss in DPS as some may think if you take the time to also slot for END reduction and recovery.

 

Exactly. 

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Heatstroke said:

recently and I dont use energize for end management, I save it for the heal.

AHAHAHAHA! I'm not the only one that does that! Thank you!

[Wavicle]

Energize should be Always on, don’t save it. That’s an error.

[Rudra]

That's your opinion or personal playstyle. I don't need Energize to manage my END. And having it and Unrelenting as available heals has kept my character alive on several occasions. (Edit: And my character is also an Energy/Energy Blaster. And with very few enhancements slotted still. I just have my few enhancements set up for END and damage.)

Edited December 3, 2022 by Rudra

[Heatstroke]

18 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Energize should be Always on, don’t save it. That’s an error.

 

Works fine for me. Thanks I'm good.

[Heatstroke]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

That's your opinion or personal playstyle. I don't need Energize to manage my END. And having it and Unrelenting as available heals has kept my character alive on several occasions.

 

Bingo.

[Wavicle]

If you have endurance problems on a /energy Blaster you’re doing it wrong.

 

 Yes, that’s my opinion.

[Doomguide2005]

     It has strong +regeneration and despite the descriptive text it also has mez protection not resistance of -8.304.  No more half hour stuns from Malta.   Those are the pros of having it always on.   And unless healing yourself is relatively rare event (like once a mission or less) the uptime on the end discount is likely still greatly benefitting your overall endurance usage even if only getting used part time between heal usage.  I know my SR scrapper on the rare occasion she tries to bottom out her end (long fights vs end drainers) can pop Conserve Power (same discount, and just the base slotted) and steadily gain end even while continuing to fight the end drainers.  In other words unless your underlying end usage leaves you sucking wind in an extremely short time endurance use is the least benefit it provides and is not a reason to ensure you can perma run it.  That would be (potentially) the mez protection and regeneration.  At least in my "I've have yet to play an Energy Manip Blaster since sustains became a thing" opinion.  

[Heatstroke]

3 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     It has strong +regeneration and despite the descriptive text it also has mez protection not resistance of -8.304.  No more half hour stuns from Malta.   Those are the pros of having it always on.   And unless healing yourself is relatively rare event (like once a mission or less) the uptime on the end discount is likely still greatly benefitting your overall endurance usage even if only getting used part time between heal usage.  I know my SR scrapper on the rare occasion she tries to bottom out her end (long fights vs end drainers) can pop Conserve Power (same discount, and just the base slotted) and steadily gain end even while continuing to fight the end drainers.  In other words unless your underlying end usage leaves you sucking wind in an extremely short time endurance use is the least benefit it provides and is not a reason to ensure you can perma run it.  That would be (potentially) the mez protection and regeneration.  At least in my "I've have yet to play an Energy Manip Blaster since sustains became a thing" opinion.  

 

 

One of the things I love MOST about CoH. There is no ONE way to play anything. You can play your creation however you like. Me.  My NRG/NRG is an long distance specialist. You know why I rarely get mezzed?  Because most foes cant even reach me.  Boost Range. Aim Build Up.. Snipe.. POW... Power Push... your knocked down... POW Snipe again..  Your dead...  AOE.. easy.. Air Build Up Nova.. BOOM your dead.. or mostly dead..

My Old SG mates used to tease me saying.. He is going to do the mission from the base...  I used to attack the Mitos from OUTSIDE the Goo on HamiRaids.. Distance is my defense... but because I use Snipes.. A LOT.. I also drain end pretty quickly... which I recently solved by reworking a few things...  So I dont need Energize for Mez.. nor do I need it for End redux.. I DO need it for heals... when I occasionally take damage which is how I like to use it.. and it works well for me that way...

 

So remember.. SLOT END REDUX IN YOUR ATTACKS !!!

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

@Heatstroke

Truth.  CoH encourages and makes possible a wide variety of builds.  Many of those are quite capable while more a few others can be outright quirky and half the fun is making them work (looking at you Toggle Man, Pool Boy, petless MM, or my Staminaless AR/Dev, etc., etc.).  

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