Some Random User Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 I have been playing a Robotics/Poison and am getting far enough along that I'm looking to figure out a higher level build. I haven't seen anything that is specifically about this Secondary Powerset combination. Let's have a conversation about benefits and potential pitfalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjaboy Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Poison is awesome but can be very player intensive. You have no self heal, no shields, self buffs, etc. Your only defense is to debuff or hold. The good news is debuffs are what make Poison insane. Short of maybe Benumb (single target, long cooldown) you aren't going to find more powerful overall debuffs in the MM sets with very short cooldowns. The last level ability is extremely powerful but is better suited for Melee pets as it casts an aura around a pet that has a hold chance (non-resistible) and constantly AoE debuffs with no acc check. This stacks with Envenom + Weaken as well. All of Poison debuffs require an accuracy check except Noxious Gas (And maybe Trap?). BUT all of poison except for the last two abilities are mob target abilities. You don't have to keep an enemy in a specific location or place the debuff on the ground. Debuff on the go! This is especially good for PVP. They added a small area AoE spread with Envenom and Weaken in one of the later updates. The effect is weaker than the primary target but at least there is one! Poison is known for it's ability to weaken mob negative effects on you, kill bosses, and kill players. Think of it as a single target killer. If you miss your debuff or have too many mobs it is going to be an issue. Noxious Breath / Gas / Trap does help with this late game however. Thugs / Poison was considered to be #1 when it was first launched in PvE and PvP. It is still good today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Random User Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Very interested in gearing for debuffs, then. I've been told to skip all of Robotics/ except for pet powers and upgrades to pets. One thing I noticed is /Poison starts off with a single target ranged heal that can heal teammates as well as robots. Robotics/ also has Repair, which is a heal that can only target a robot, not a teammate. Taking Repair doesn't seem worth the effort, especially when the Protector Bot has a targeted heal used on the other robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desarix Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I play a thugs /poison build let me tell you ambushes are not your friend. You will die and you will die often because they cannot handle a lot of mobs, against smaller groups it is great but ambushes really display its weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generator Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I had a Robots/Poison back on Live. I've been avoiding recreating him, only because I wanted to get my feet under me before I tried a Mastermind. I remember those debuffs being pretty insane, made me feel like quite the Boss-killer. IIRC, looking at the set, I tended to go Weaken, Envenom, Neurotoxic Breath, and let the Robots blow the crap out of the mobs once they had the audacity to disapprove of my chemical warfare. I may be remembering older versions of the powers, but I do not remember getting a lot of mileage out of the top two powers. (The T9, probably I'd use on a set where one of the guys can be more easily encouraged to go into melee.) If I can dig out my Mids build tonight, I'll try and remember to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generator Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Here's what I've got. I was clearly mid-process at the time of the shutdown. :) Note this is out of Mids, not Pine. As I suspected, I totally ditched the top two powers from Poison. Later, Generator ============================ Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Steel Sleeper - I19: Level 50 Technology Mastermind Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Poison Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Concealment Power Pool: Teleportation Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (3) Sovereign Right - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (3) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (5) Sovereign Right - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (5) Sovereign Right - Accuracy: Level 50 (45) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus: Level 50 Level 1: Alkaloid (A) Empty (7) Empty (7) Empty (9) Empty (9) Empty (11) Empty Level 2: Pulse Rifle Blast (A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (11) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (13) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 50 (13) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50 (15) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (15) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 Level 4: Envenom (A) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff: Level 30 (17) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Defense Debuff: Level 30 (17) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30 (19) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30 (19) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30 (21) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage: Level 30 Level 6: Equip Robot (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50 (21) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50 Level 8: Weaken (A) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff: Level 50 (23) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/ToHit Debuff: Level 50 (23) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (25) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (25) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (27) Siphon Insight - Chance for +ToHit: Level 50 Level 10: Fly (A) Freebird - Endurance: Level 50 (27) Freebird - FlySpeed: Level 50 (50) Freebird - +Stealth: Level 50 Level 12: Protector Bots (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (29) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (29) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (31) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (31) Defense Buff IO: Level 50 (31) Defense Buff IO: Level 50 Level 14: Hover (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 50 (33) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50 (50) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50 Level 16: Elixir of Life (A) EmptyLevel 18: Assault (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50 (33) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50 Level 20: Antidote (A) EmptyLevel 22: Neurotoxic Breath (A) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Slow: Level 50 (33) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (34) Tempered Readiness - Endurance/Recharge/Slow: Level 50 (34) Slow IO: Level 50 (34) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50 (36) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50 Level 24: Tactics (A) Empty (36) Empty (46) Empty (48) Empty Level 26: Assault Bot (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (36) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (37) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (37) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (37) Blood Mandate - Accuracy: Level 50 (39) Blood Mandate - Damage: Level 50 Level 28: Paralytic Poison (A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50 (39) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (39) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (40) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (40) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (40) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold: Level 50 Level 30: Repair (A) Empty (50) Empty Level 32: Upgrade Robot (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50 (42) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50 Level 35: Maneuvers (A) Empty (42) Empty (46) Empty (48) Empty Level 38: Stealth (A) EmptyLevel 41: Scorpion Shield (A) Empty (42) Empty (43) Empty (45) Empty (45) Empty Level 44: Power Boost (A) Empty (46) Empty Level 47: Vengeance (A) Empty (48) Empty Level 49: Recall Friend (A) EmptyLevel 1: Brawl (A) EmptyLevel 1: Sprint (A) EmptyLevel 2: Rest (A) EmptyLevel 1: Supremacy Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift (A) EmptyLevel 2: Hurdle (A) EmptyLevel 2: Health (A) EmptyLevel 2: Stamina (A) Empty (43) Empty (43) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Slide (A) EmptyLevel 1: Prestige Power Dash (A) EmptyLevel 1: Prestige Power Quick (A) EmptyLevel 1: Prestige Power Surge (A) EmptyLevel 1: Prestige Power Rush (A) Empty------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Random User Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 Is Alkaloid worth buffing for healing? How big do the late game numbers get? I've been running late-teen to early-twenties Missions against Council and Freakshow. Envenom, Weaken, and Neurotoxic Breath haven't been feeling like they do enough. I'm interested in knowing more about, experientially, how do they feel? Can you see effects from your bots steamrolling through mobs/Bosses? Do teammates seem to benefit more? Should I be hitting a Lt./Boss or should I just aim for the enemy that's closest to the middle of the mob, just to make certain I hit as many as I can? Should I stress out about the A.o.E. at all or just look at that as icing on the cake, targeting the big debuff on the most important target? Should I drop all three onto the same target or spread the debuffs around? Any priorities I should follow in what debuff to apply first (before they aggro and start moving around)? As for the robots I'm happy to see I'd already been looking to use some of these sets, but I have been thinking about using them in different powers. Let's geek out and discuss the why! I was going to six slot Battle Drones with Blood Mandate. You're six slotting Assault Bot and four slotting Protector Bots and buffing their Defense Buff (I presume to improve their Forcefield power). Is this because Sovereign Right is that much better for them for some reason? I haven't looked at the numbers for the robot that is summoned instead of the power that summons them. I was turned off from slotting anything to help their Defense because I was afraid of the pets not using the power often enough. (I thought about this a lot like the Broadsword power Parry, granting a temporary buff you can't unilaterally turn on.) How close does the pet's Forcefield power get someone to the soft cap? Is the power the same as a player's use of a Forcefield power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Redux Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 IIRC Protector Bot's bubble is 7% defense unslotted. Your other bots get two of them stacked. You and each Protection Bot only get one. How much this helps friends on how much other defense you have. @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generator Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Hey, I can't go into that much detail on your questions right now, because as I said, I haven't actually played this character since 2012. But here's what I remember. What I think of as the "big three" debuffs (Envenom, Weaken, Neurotoxic Breath), you should definitely notice them. You ever want to see a good time, hit one of those Freakshow you've been fighting with Envenom, then watch as his Dull Pain only gives him like, 5 HP. :) I liked to start with Weaken, targeting the boss/most threatening guy in the enemy spawn, so that their counter-attack against me was cut off at the knees. After that, maybe go Neurotoxic while the enemy is still relatively gathered up. Alkaloid, I remember being a little "ehh" as a heal, but if you want to heal something besides one of your robots it's the only game in town. The rest of it, I'm too far out of practice to comment on, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Redux Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Sounds awesome :) One thing I understand since last I looked at Poison was that the set got some splash AoE. @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generator Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Sounds awesome :) One thing I understand since last I looked at Poison was that the set got some splash AoE. Uh, maybe? Again, it's been forever, and I haven't played this on Homecoming yet, but my recollection is that the splash was small. You were unlikely to see a lot of mileage from it unless guys were jammed together, Night-At-The-Opera-level. This Mastermind is probably second guy on-deck as far as old characters I plan to recreate, just after my Sonic^2 Defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Redux Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Sounds awesome :) One thing I understand since last I looked at Poison was that the set got some splash AoE. Uh, maybe? Again, it's been forever, and I haven't played this on Homecoming yet, but my recollection is that the splash was small. You were unlikely to see a lot of mileage from it unless guys were jammed together, Night-At-The-Opera-level. This Mastermind is probably second guy on-deck as far as old characters I plan to recreate, just after my Sonic^2 Defender. yeah it's pretty small... Range 8? So basically melee range sound the target. @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Random User Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 What is the magnitude on the -Def? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generator Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 What is the magnitude on the -Def? According to the old RedTomax data, a nice zesty -22.5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Random User Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 What is the magnitude on the -Def?According to the old RedTomax data, a nice zesty -22.5%. That isn't a Magnitude. Magnitude is usually rated from 1-3 (for most enemies), and is a stat I'm not seeing on these lists. Here's a wiki article that explains what Magnitude is. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Protection I'm asking because I'm trying to find the reason I'm not feeling like there's any difference in hitting the enemy when I use the debuff and when I don't. I thought they may be resisting the effect somehow. I guess the other option is the debuff just isn't big enough to make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixa Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 What is the magnitude on the -Def?According to the old RedTomax data, a nice zesty -22.5%. That isn't a Magnitude. Magnitude is usually rated from 1-3 (for most enemies), and is a stat I'm not seeing on these lists. Here's a wiki article that explains what Magnitude is. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Protection I'm asking because I'm trying to find the reason I'm not feeling like there's any difference in hitting the enemy when I use the debuff and when I don't. I thought they may be resisting the effect somehow. I guess the other option is the debuff just isn't big enough to make a difference. i understand your question. you want to know exactly how much of that -defense is actually being applied. google 'city of heroes purple patch'. it will explain the who and the why. as an MM in general you will rarely feel the differnce a single -defense -resist power makes because few mm pets are hitting for more than low double-digits and you for sure won't feel it in your 20's when mobs dont really hvae the resists they will later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Rocket Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 What is the magnitude on the -Def?According to the old RedTomax data, a nice zesty -22.5%. That isn't a Magnitude. Magnitude is usually rated from 1-3 (for most enemies), and is a stat I'm not seeing on these lists. Here's a wiki article that explains what Magnitude is. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Protection I'm asking because I'm trying to find the reason I'm not feeling like there's any difference in hitting the enemy when I use the debuff and when I don't. I thought they may be resisting the effect somehow. I guess the other option is the debuff just isn't big enough to make a difference. Um... dude... Only CC effects have a magnitude. Debuffs do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generator Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 As @kelly Rocket said, a Defense Debuff doesn't have a capital-M-this-is-a-game-stat-Magnitude, those are usually reserved for crowd control powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Random User Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 So the -Def is always going to be added. When (level range) should I expect to notice the debuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmalltalkJava Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 - def will probably only show up in your pet combat window. You will see the rolls that your pets need to hit change. I think at least Baseline MM Henchmen Defenses and Resist Values MM - Beast Pets - Pet Attack usage and some quick proc testing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Random User Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 What I'm trying to ask here is if I should feel like there are noticeably more hits at some point. If the effect works as the tooltips say but doesn't have enough effect to be highly visible is Envenom skippable? Has anyone tried to and seen no real change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now