-Damage debuff specialist

[Xandyr]

Hey all.

 Thinking of trying something totally new. Looking at building a tank debuffer, and Ice or Shield paired with Kinetic Melee sounds like a gem. It appears you could pump out a LOT of -damage debuff...especially with Darkest Night.

 Is -damage debuff actually worth it? Is the debuff noticeable?

 

 Or should I go back to the drawing board and maybe build something for -to hit debuff, or -defense debuff?

 

Thanks for any input.

-X

[Psyonico]

The only problem with KM is the -damage isn't up all the time, only when Power Siphon is up.

 

As for primary, ice does more -damage than shield does, and it also does the -recharge which would be nice for team play.

 

I had thought about doing the same thing, stacking -damage, but when I realized the KM -damage isn't up all the time, I changed my idea to a Dark/DP defender running chemical rounds.

 

I had forgotten that ice did -damage in Chilling Embrace, it might be worth trying again.

[Nyghtmaire]

Bio has 2 sources of -dam in defensive mode: Parasitic Aura and Genetic Contamination. Also has -res in the armor set. Agree with combining Darkest Night (which is the heftiest reduction) and layering with Paralytic Radial Interface (stacks up to 4 of 5% -dam). 

[Xandyr]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

The only problem with KM is the -damage isn't up all the time, only when Power Siphon is up.

 

As for primary, ice does more -damage than shield does, and it also does the -recharge which would be nice for team play.

 

I had thought about doing the same thing, stacking -damage, but when I realized the KM -damage isn't up all the time, I changed my idea to a Dark/DP defender running chemical rounds.

 

I had forgotten that ice did -damage in Chilling Embrace, it might be worth trying again.

Seriously? I didn't know it only worked when power Siphon was up. Hmm...

 

And I have a dark/dp defender. It's pretty awesome!

[Xandyr]

47 minutes ago, Nyghtmaire said:

Bio has 2 sources of -dam in defensive mode: Parasitic Aura and Genetic Contamination. Also has -res in the armor set. Agree with combining Darkest Night (which is the heftiest reduction) and layering with Paralytic Radial Interface (stacks up to 4 of 5% -dam). 

I also thought about Bio, but I already have several Bio toons 😎

[StriderIV]

6 hours ago, Psyonico said:

The only problem with KM is the -damage isn't up all the time, only when Power Siphon is up.

 

As for primary, ice does more -damage than shield does, and it also does the -recharge which would be nice for team play.

 

I had thought about doing the same thing, stacking -damage, but when I realized the KM -damage isn't up all the time, I changed my idea to a Dark/DP defender running chemical rounds.

 

I had forgotten that ice did -damage in Chilling Embrace, it might be worth trying again.

 

5 hours ago, Xandyr said:

Seriously? I didn't know it only worked when power Siphon was up. Hmm...

 

And I have a dark/dp defender. It's pretty awesome!

I don’t believe this is true. All KM attacks cause enemies to do -Dmg. At least that is the case on my KM/Ice Stalker. I made it for the very same reason Xandyr.

 

I would summon @Sir Myshkin. He has theorized and awesome Shield/KM tank.  On a Tanker, I’d probably go that route as you’ll be stacking -Dmg with KM and AAO, while also giving defense to your team. One thing to note: KM’s animations can be pretty funky with Shield. Everything is pretty much done with one hand, so just a warning that it looks a bit different from traditional KM attacks.

Edited April 20, 2023 by StriderIV

[Sir Myshkin]

Okay, first thing, if we're comparing how Ice and Shield are going to play in the sandbox, Chilling Embrace does -14% where AAO only does -7%, but if we're partnering up with Kinetic Melee that can be a pretty wishy-washy comparison. SD/KM is really the more ideal pairing, AAO and Burst can get the same level of -Dam as Chilling does, but AAO is going to help rack up KM's damage more and that's kind of a big thing for a set that hits fast.

 

9 hours ago, Xandyr said:

I didn't know it only worked when power Siphon was up.

Yes, marginal downside but is easy to overlook because it doesn't take much effort to keep Power Siphon up pretty consistently. The ability itself is a 10 up, 10 steady, 10 down, and its recharge can be reduced to nearly 30/s with the right effort so keeping it  up "perma" is pretty doable. A more casual build can even do 38-40/s which is still pretty reasonable.

 

11 hours ago, Xandyr said:

Is -damage debuff actually worth it? Is the debuff noticeable?

 

Is it crazy noticeable? No, not alone. Add Darkest Night in to the mix and suddenly it gets a lot more aggressive. Keep in mind that most debuffs can get resisted by as much as half, so that 7% suddenly becomes 3.5%, which can often have someone go "eh, not worth it." But 3.5% x3 active cycling attacks, 4 with an AoE is suddenly a lot bigger, especially if you add the Interface -Dam Proc in there, and then Darkest Night on top of that for another 10-15% (reduced)? We're getting into the 25-30% range of -Dam, and those are noticeable numbers.

 

Having said all that, going back to your thread title:

-Damage Debuff Specialist

 

If you want to try and achieve that then you're going to have to look in an entirely different place: Trick Arrow. Poison Gas Arrow is going to do huge amounts of -Dam, half of which is unresistable out of the gate. Pair that with Chem Rounds on Dual Pistols and that's about as tenacious as one can get with -Dam, not to mention all the other shenanigans Trick Arrow has.

[StriderIV]

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Okay, first thing, if we're comparing how Ice and Shield are going to play in the sandbox, Chilling Embrace does -14% where AAO only does -7%, but if we're partnering up with Kinetic Melee that can be a pretty wishy-washy comparison. SD/KM is really the more ideal pairing, AAO and Burst can get the same level of -Dam as Chilling does, but AAO is going to help rack up KM's damage more and that's kind of a big thing for a set that hits fast.

 

Yes, marginal downside but is easy to overlook because it doesn't take much effort to keep Power Siphon up pretty consistently. The ability itself is a 10 up, 10 steady, 10 down, and its recharge can be reduced to nearly 30/s with the right effort so keeping it  up "perma" is pretty doable. A more casual build can even do 38-40/s which is still pretty reasonable.

 

 

Is it crazy noticeable? No, not alone. Add Darkest Night in to the mix and suddenly it gets a lot more aggressive. Keep in mind that most debuffs can get resisted by as much as half, so that 7% suddenly becomes 3.5%, which can often have someone go "eh, not worth it." But 3.5% x3 active cycling attacks, 4 with an AoE is suddenly a lot bigger, especially if you add the Interface -Dam Proc in there, and then Darkest Night on top of that for another 10-15% (reduced)? We're getting into the 25-30% range of -Dam, and those are noticeable numbers.

 

Having said all that, going back to your thread title:

-Damage Debuff Specialist

 

If you want to try and achieve that then you're going to have to look in an entirely different place: Trick Arrow. Poison Gas Arrow is going to do huge amounts of -Dam, half of which is unresistable out of the gate. Pair that with Chem Rounds on Dual Pistols and that's about as tenacious as one can get with -Dam, not to mention all the other shenanigans Trick Arrow has.

Interesting. So KM only does it’s -Dmg with Power Siphon up. Is that stipulation removed for KM on a Stalker since they don’t have Power Siphon and get build up instead?

 

Also, how is that Shield/KM build coming along? Would love to see what you’ve cooked up 😂

[Uun]

11 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

If you want to try and achieve that then you're going to have to look in an entirely different place: Trick Arrow. Poison Gas Arrow is going to do huge amounts of -Dam, half of which is unresistable out of the gate. Pair that with Chem Rounds on Dual Pistols and that's about as tenacious as one can get with -Dam, not to mention all the other shenanigans Trick Arrow has.

Ice Arrow adds more unresistable -dmg on top of PGA, making Trick Arrow the king of -dmg. Other contenders are Nature (Spore Cloud + Corrosive Enzymes) and Poison (Weaken + Venomous Gas). 

[Sir Myshkin]

10 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Also, how is that Shield/KM build coming along? Would love to see what you’ve cooked up 😂

 

I got distracted in making an unkillable Regen Brute that the SD/KM project never took growth after I made the character. Later looking back at the build I don't like it (near say I may hate it) despite it being an actually sound and fully functional build.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), UnbGrd-ResDam(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), UnbGrd-Max HP%(43)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(3), GldStr-%Dam(3), Mk'Bit-Dam%(5), TchofDth-Dam%(5), PrfZng-Dam%(7)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(39), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 4: Body Blow -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Rchg(9), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Hct-Dam%(11), TchofDth-Dam%(11)
Level 6: True Grit -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17), NmnCnv-Heal(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(46)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Smashing Blow -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(17)
Level 12: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(31)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46)
Level 18: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Power Siphon -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(21), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(21), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 22: Shield Charge -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Arm-Acc/Rchg(23), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Arm-Dam%(31), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 24: Burst -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(25), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(29)
Level 26: One with the Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(33), Ags-Psi/Status(33), Ags-ResDam(48), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Mighty Leap -- Lnch-End(A), Lnch-+Special(48)
Level 30: Weaken Resolve -- Acc-I(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 32: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apc-Dam%(37), GldJvl-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Darkest Night -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(42), Artl-Dam/Rech(42), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(42), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(43), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(43)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rng(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 1: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(19)
Level 28: Takeoff
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
------------

 

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Debuff room, reasonable Resistances, with three team mates in range Phalanx bumps the defense into the low 60's, it maintains proc-focus in a few areas and has a lot of solid strengths. Weaken Resolve is a one-shot burst debuff every 15/s in a chain for "-25%" Res, Gloom bumps performance too, With AAO, Assault, and Power Siphon at full charge this thing rivals my strongest SS Rage builds.

 

And yet I'm not satisfied with it XD

[Psyonico]

18 hours ago, StriderIV said:

 

I don’t believe this is true. All KM attacks cause enemies to do -Dmg. At least that is the case on my KM/Ice Stalker. I made it for the very same reason Xandyr.

I tested this out with Power Analyzer this morning and your are right, the -damage is always there 

[StriderIV]

3 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

 

I got distracted in making an unkillable Regen Brute that the SD/KM project never took growth after I made the character. Later looking back at the build I don't like it (near say I may hate it) despite it being an actually sound and fully functional build.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), UnbGrd-ResDam(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), UnbGrd-Max HP%(43)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(3), GldStr-%Dam(3), Mk'Bit-Dam%(5), TchofDth-Dam%(5), PrfZng-Dam%(7)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(39), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 4: Body Blow -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Rchg(9), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Hct-Dam%(11), TchofDth-Dam%(11)
Level 6: True Grit -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17), NmnCnv-Heal(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(46)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Smashing Blow -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(17)
Level 12: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(31)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(45), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46)
Level 18: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Power Siphon -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(21), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(21), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 22: Shield Charge -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Arm-Acc/Rchg(23), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Arm-Dam%(31), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 24: Burst -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(25), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(29)
Level 26: One with the Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(33), Ags-Psi/Status(33), Ags-ResDam(48), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Mighty Leap -- Lnch-End(A), Lnch-+Special(48)
Level 30: Weaken Resolve -- Acc-I(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(34)
Level 32: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apc-Dam%(37), GldJvl-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Darkest Night -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(42), Artl-Dam/Rech(42), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(42), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(43), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(43)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rng(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 1: Stamina -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(19)
Level 28: Takeoff
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
------------

 

 

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		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

Debuff room, reasonable Resistances, with three team mates in range Phalanx bumps the defense into the low 60's, it maintains proc-focus in a few areas and has a lot of solid strengths. Weaken Resolve is a one-shot burst debuff every 15/s in a chain for "-25%" Res, Gloom bumps performance too, With AAO, Assault, and Power Siphon at full charge this thing rivals my strongest SS Rage builds.

 

And yet I'm not satisfied with it XD

You think you could make this even better??!! 0.o it looks rather beastly. Any specific incarnates you’d run? Do you try to alternate Unleash Potential and OWTS?

Edited April 21, 2023 by StriderIV

[StriderIV]

2 hours ago, Psyonico said:

I tested this out with Power Analyzer this morning and your are right, the -damage is always there 

Thanks for confirming my friend!

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, StriderIV said:

You think you could make this even better??!! 0.o it looks rather beastly. Any specific incarnates you’d run? Do you try to alternate Unleash Potential and OWTS?

 

One w/t Shield was there more int he mind set of having something to support tougher situations where getting resistance numbers up would matter like high to-hit that might break over the defense, or realistically Hard Mode. Unleash kind of served as a panic button for, again, high to-hit situations or the possibility of DDR corruption.

 

And "better" might be subjective. I don't necessarily look at that build and think it could be better, but that it isn't right.

[StriderIV]

10 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

 

One w/t Shield was there more int he mind set of having something to support tougher situations where getting resistance numbers up would matter like high to-hit that might break over the defense, or realistically Hard Mode. Unleash kind of served as a panic button for, again, high to-hit situations or the possibility of DDR corruption.

 

And "better" might be subjective. I don't necessarily look at that build and think it could be better, but that it isn't right.

Fair enough, and I get that! I’m sure there might be some minor change where you go THIS IS IT. I feel like this combo just misses a heal. Brings a ton to the table.

[StriderIV]

6 hours ago, Uun said:

Ice Arrow adds more unresistable -dmg on top of PGA, making Trick Arrow the king of -dmg. Other contenders are Nature (Spore Cloud + Corrosive Enzymes) and Poison (Weaken + Venomous Gas). 

So what you’re saying is we need to stack TA, Nature, Poison, Shield, Ice Armor and KM and see if we can just floor the enemies damage? 😂

[Hjarki]

19 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Yes, marginal downside but is easy to overlook because it doesn't take much effort to keep Power Siphon up pretty consistently. The ability itself is a 10 up, 10 steady, 10 down, and its recharge can be reduced to nearly 30/s with the right effort so keeping it  up "perma" is pretty doable. A more casual build can even do 38-40/s which is still pretty reasonable.

In City of Data, the -damage component of Kinetic Melee attacks is independent of the Power Siphon mechanic.

 

With that in mind, your "30s up/30s recharge" notion works for the +damage because the buff has a 10s duration. Even if Power Siphon were necessary, the debuffs on the three early single target attacks are all 5s or less, Burst/Focused Burst are 7s and Concentrated Strike is 8s.

 

In terms of the overall theory, I think people are trying to force an inefficiency rather than optimize an efficiency. -damage is of somewhat limited use because damage resist on enemies is the most common type of resistance and you have to stack that on top of purple patch reductions. In four-star content, you're further penalized by the inherent +damage of the enemies. In a situation like Against All Odds where the -damage is merely a supplemental characteristic of an otherwise strong power, fine. But there's no way to pile up enough -damage on a Tanker to make much of a dent in any situation where you'd actually need to reduce damage.

 

7 hours ago, Uun said:

Ice Arrow adds more unresistable -dmg on top of PGA, making Trick Arrow the king of -dmg. Other contenders are Nature (Spore Cloud + Corrosive Enzymes) and Poison (Weaken + Venomous Gas). 

Ice Arrow + PGA is 70% -damage. The resistible/irresistible -25% of it depends on the situation but it means that the -damage doesn't scale up with -resist just as it doesn't scale down with +resist.

 

Nature is 60% -damage. Poison is 56.25% -damage.

 

Kinetics can easily hit will over 100% -damage between Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift on a single target but it doesn't have any internal -resist.

[Yomo Kimyata]

My takeaway from my KM/Ice scrapper was that there are three main powers in the primary that make things work:  Burst keeps the -11.25% damage up (ideally) constantly, Concentrated Strike keeps your Power Siphon up, and Power Siphon keeps your everything up.  Chilling Embrace is an incredibly underrated power.

 

I think that Darkest Night on a melee toon is the closest thing we have to an "I WIN!" cheat button.

[Uun]

17 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Kinetics can easily hit will over 100% -damage between Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift on a single target but it doesn't have any internal -resist.

While Kinetics is the only set that allows -dmg powers to stack with themselves, 100% requires 2 applications of each power or 3 applications of Siphon Power + 1 application of Fulcrum Shift. It will be 15-20 seconds before you hit 100% and you have to keep refreshing as the duration of each is only 30 seconds. In contrast, PGA and Ice Arrow both have 60 second durations, so you can spend your time applying other debuffs. I would rather have 70% (of which 45% is unresistable) that I only have to refresh every 60 seconds, than 100% that I have to refresh every 10 seconds to maintain.