How do Stalkers work?

[kito]

 

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Honestly, I saw it more as the original villain ATs, (as they functioned when CoV launched), skewing their focus more toward damage and solo play, vs the hero ATs, with stalkers being more specialized scrappers, and brutes being berserker tanks.

I always saw the brutes as the redside scrapers and mm as the redside tanks. With the obvious dominators being controllers. And then leaving  corruptors as the defenders. 

 

But yes a stealthy high single target blasters would be better for solo play then the blue side version of the blaster.   

 

But I never did play much to any of blue side on live and joined after the AE was added to the game so my view is probably different then someone who was there and saw them update and change from the beginning.

Edited May 10, 2023 by kito

[ZemX]

8 hours ago, kito said:

I always saw the brutes as the redside scrapers and mm as the redside tanks. With the obvious dominators being controllers. And then leaving  corruptors as the defenders. 

 

I hear there was some loose dev talk back in the day that said something like this, but it never made sense to me.  Tanking is not just surviving damage.  It's directing it towards oneself.  Anybody can do it, sometimes with the help of pool powers like Provoke, but if we're talking which red AT got the most tanking tools built into it, there is really no question that is Brutes.    They got built in autohit area taunt, higher hit points, taunt auras, (then) tanker-exclusive armor sets, tanker res caps, and punch-voke.  They got all but a sign hung around their necks that read "A mad scientist made this thing in a lab by starting with a tanker and a honey badger."

 

They are only like Scrappers in that they are more offensive than Tankers.  But everything redside was meant to be more offensive than blueside.  That was the overall design philosophy. 

 

Stalkers didn't actually end up being more damaging than Scrappers originally (a clear mistake in my opinion), but they were definitely less defensive, less sturdy.  They were clearly more tilted towards the Blaster's damage-only role than the Scrapper's off-tanking ability but at the same time much more survivable than a Blaster.   There was no one AT that was the redside Blaster.  No red AT was dedicated to nothing but damage.  MMs were unlike most anything else in the game.  They were one-man teams.   Player teammates were just pets they could control even less well than their own.

[Seed22]

On 5/6/2023 at 4:12 PM, biostem said:

Stalkers get a very large bonus to crit chance based upon the number of other teammates.  Hide is almost superfluous, except for opening a fight or sneaking past mobs.  Heck, there's an ATO that can put you into stealth for a few seconds, without needing the power, (IIRC).

Hide is free def. No skippy ever 😛

 

Though snark, to answer your question a stalker in a team can help speed up mishs where you need to find a boss, or they can scrap it out like a scrapper but with better burst and controlled crits(I like their ATO more than scrappers). The days of old "AS and wait for hide" gameplay are kind of over, though opening with AS is still fun and helps delete pesky Lt's/Minions(*cough* sapper *cough*) as well as Bosses fairly quickly.

 

All in all: Play a stalker like a scrapper with stealth and controlled crits.

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Hide is free def. No skippy ever 😛

 

Though snark, to answer your question a stalker in a team can help speed up mishs where you need to find a boss, or they can scrap it out like a scrapper but with better burst and controlled crits(I like their ATO more than scrappers). The days of old "AS and wait for hide" gameplay are kind of over, though opening with AS is still fun and helps delete pesky Lt's/Minions(*cough* sapper *cough*) as well as Bosses fairly quickly.

 

All in all: Play a stalker like a scrapper with stealth and controlled crits.

Yeah.  I just had a great experience on a PUG team that showed this.  My Stalker is 3 days old.  1st two days were doing every pre 50 TF in order. (missed Cavern of Transcendance and Dr Q). Y=3rd day was getting Accolade powers and some badges. Overall I miss my new AR's massive ranged AoE lol.  But damned, can the Stalker hit.  So fits my Vampire theme I know this will be my final incarnation of the concept.  

 

We were doing the Maria Jenkins thing.  Team leader insisted it was kill most. I think it was plus something but I honestly did not check. The clockwork and DE bosses were tough. I was able to quickly burn them down. Sometimes in as few as two hits. We all know Dark Melee is strong at ST and pretty much sucks at AoE.  So, better or worse, this is enhanced on the stalker AT.  The thing can delete Bosses fast.  I let the team handle the light work and concentrated on the hard points.  It can....barely...tank when I got way out in front and soloed a spawn once or twice. Propped up a little, but not much, by inspirations.  

 

I still need to get my rhythm down on the attack chain. I am okay but definitely not great.  I did not take placate.  No need and no room.  I did take both aura toggles.  I love me some Dark screw with enemies powers.  I will be badging on this guy for a while.  We will see where it goes. Just opened Judgement and interface.  Both Dark of course lol.

[ZemX]

19 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

First part, yes, that's me and I'm still pretty sure that is what they were designed for.

 

To be clear, what I am criticizing is the idea that Stalkers were ever designed to hit with AS from Hide and then run away to Hide again.  The first part yes.  The second part no.  This is very obviously true just based on the facts that (1) They were given five or six other attacks besides AS along with an entire armor secondary devoted to survival in melee, and (2) Using those other attacks AFTER hitting from Hide with AS nets vastly greater damage.  And by that I mean, AS from Hide followed by waiting to re-Hide might be comparable to six-slotting Brawl and just putting it on auto while you have a sandwich.

 

If you find hit and run "fun", sure.  You do you.   But no, it's not the design.  Some people DO find it fun to six-slot Brawl and only use pool powers as a challenge.  Lots of weird things can be fun but if we're waxing poetic and recalling the old days...

 

5 hours ago, Seed22 said:

The days of old "AS and wait for hide" gameplay are kind of over

 

These days never existed.  If you played like this, you were a concept player cosplaying a sneaky ninja assassin or something (or you were PvPing 😈), not someone who was using the AT as it was designed to be used.  That was hit-and-scrap then and it's hit-and-scrap now.  It just works better than before thanks to much needed buffs in Issue 22.

[ZemX]

8 minutes ago, Snarky said:

But damned, can the Stalker hit.  So fits my Vampire theme I know this will be my final incarnation of the concept.  

 

You have reached your final form?! 😮

 

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

The thing can delete Bosses fast.

 

Best use of a Stalker, in my opinion.  I think most people are so focused on AoE in this game, they overlook the fact that bosses have something like 6x the hit points of minions and better resistance usually.  AoEs kill minions instantly, LTs next, and bosses very much later.  Having someone focus on bosses neatly complements any AoE the team is doing and simply ends the fight faster.  Unless the team is just ridiculously overpowered compared to the content anyway.

 

[honoroit]

spines is the answer for stalkers, for today's crazy meta.

 

its even better now you can stay thorny all the time.

[Clave Dark 5]

6 hours ago, ZemX said:

Lots of weird things can be fun but if we're waxing poetic and recalling the old days...

Yes, "the good ol' days" were when the game was fun, not overly-consumed with the numbers game like it is today - we can agree on something!  😃

[ZemX]

9 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Yes, "the good ol' days" were when the game was fun, not overly-consumed with the numbers game like it is today - we can agree on something!  😃

 

Riiight... I certainly don't recall a little kerfuffle over numbers called "Enhancement Diversification" back in "the good old days".

 

No sir!  It was a golden age of free love and zero concern over "real numbers" or AT balance!

 

I remember there being a lot of Empathy among the playerbase.  And a lot of people looking for Empathy in game.   It was touching.

[Snarky]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:27 AM, Nyghtmaire said:

Well covered above. Just want to add that /dark is ridiculously fun on a stalker with Dark Melee. With a high recharge build, it is fairly straightforward to also build for soft capped S/L and M, with capped resistances in at least S/L and Psi. I skip OG but take Cloak of Fear to stack with the terrify effect from Assassin’s Eclipse (slow) and Touch of Fear. Shadow Maul does what it says and hits like a truck. Even proc out Dark Regeneration for a mix of damage (3 dam procs, Theft, 2 Accurate Healing pieces).

 

Alternatively, you can go Soul for Shadow Meld and coast on ~20% defense across the board with a mean-ass snipe. Pop Shadow Meld when jumping in a group and be over-capped while taking care of business. 
 

Are you running invulnerability or dark armor? Or something else?

Dark! And loving it.  Someone told me one of the Hybrids breaks stealth.  Which one?

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Someone told me one of the Hybrids breaks stealth.  Which one?

I imagine it'd have to be the melee one, since it works off of the enemies around you.  The only other one I could guess at would be the support one, if applying the buff to teammates somehow means you can no longer be in a true hidden state...

[InvaderStych]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

Someone told me one of the Hybrids breaks stealth.  Which one?

 

On 5/6/2023 at 10:57 PM, InvaderStych said:

One Exception:

 

Both sides of Melee Hybrid will notify mobs and break Hidden. This is in spite of the fact that only the Radial (+def) side Taunts. Core (+res) does not Taunt, but notifies.

 

Core side shouldn't, but it does. Radial side should (because it Taunts), and it also does.

 

Never tried the Support Hybrid, but I'm struggling to think of a Stalker that would benefit from it.

 

I never really got an answer on Assault though.

 

Generally if base damage mod is >1 then Core is better for the damage buff.

 

But with a Stalker you want up-front damage in certain circumstances when Core would not necessarily be maxed out and only offering the base 15% (at T4) for having it slotted.  Radial, with the Double-Hit is a chance of nothing, or a chance of about another ~100+ dmg to an AS - which can be significant. (EDIT: at 50 - because Radial's damage is a complex calculus of activation time and lunar phase, then neutered by Area Factor if an AoE, certain attacks get fat damage from it at T4)

 

So, over time Core is likely to be a bigger damage boost, but Radial might be more beneficial in short skirmishes where spike damage comes hard and fast and buffs over time might not build to max.

 

🤷‍♂️

Edited May 13, 2023 by InvaderStych

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

 

Core side shouldn't, but it does. Radial side should (because it Taunts), and it also does.

 

Never tried the Support Hybrid, but I'm struggling to think of a Stalker that would benefit from it.

 

I never really got an answer on Assault though.

 

Generally if base damage mod is >1 then Core is better for the damage buff.

 

But with a Stalker you want up-front damage in certain circumstances when Core would not necessarily be maxed out and only offering the base 15% (at T4) for having it slotted.  Radial, with the Double-Hit is a chance of nothing, or a chance of about another ~100+ dmg to an AS - which can be significant. (EDIT: at 50 - because Radial's damage is a complex calculus of activation time and lunar phase, then neutered by Area Factor if an AoE, certain attacks get fat damage from it at T4)

 

So, over time Core is likely to be a bigger damage boost, but Radial might be more beneficial in short skirmishes where spike damage comes hard and fast and buffs over time might not build to max.

 

🤷‍♂️

Thank you.  I am going to go Assault Core.  THis (I believe) will help in my harder fights with endless mobs I need to burn down 1 at a time or the giant Health Blob a League is burning.

[biostem]

32 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Never tried the Support Hybrid, but I'm struggling to think of a Stalker that would benefit from it.

Support can buff dmg, tohit, def, and "special" for you and your entire team, so it can be of some use if you want all your bases covered...

[InvaderStych]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

Support can buff dmg, tohit, def, and "special" for you and your entire team, so it can be of some use if you want all your bases covered...

 

...  seems I may have missed the memo on Hybrid: Support. 🤣

[Darkir]

On 5/10/2023 at 1:58 PM, Snarky said:

We all know Dark Melee is strong at ST and pretty much sucks at AoE

Yes, but your dark armor can become an amazing aoe proc monster if you proc out dark regeneration. Seriously...do it. Oh and it can solve dark armors famous Endurance problems too just by slotting a theft end proc (so I'm saying put 6 procs in dark regeneration, 5 of which are damage).

 

 

[Snarky]

43 minutes ago, Darkir said:

Yes, but your dark armor can become an amazing aoe proc monster if you proc out dark regeneration. Seriously...do it. Oh and it can solve dark armors famous Endurance problems too just by slotting a theft end proc (so I'm saying put 6 procs in dark regeneration, 5 of which are damage).

 

 

Heh, I indulge a multi layered strategy for solving end issues. ToE sometimes goes in there.  Depending on build room.  It is a very good idea, but there are other options.