EAT: Nictus

[Greycat]

I'll admit to being disappointed this *wasn't* the VEAT when they were announced - and it was never really looked at after, as far as I'm aware.

 

That said, this would be more of a contact-and-storyline-creation project than "create a new EAT from scratch" like most of the others proposed long ago would be. Some powers could use a tweak, just from what Nictus *are* (versus Warshades,) but - well, bluntly, I'd love to see and play the *other* side of the Kheldian War arcs. And yes, you can make a Warshade and switch him red right away... but there's nothing Kheld-related to do.

 

The AT itself would in essence be a Red-starting Warshade. (I'm half tempted to say "they can't switch sides," but that'd cut out a lot of player storylines.)  However, there'd have to be a few tweaks. Nictus, after all, aren't bound by the same pesky "morality" and "redemption" of Warshades. There'd be a few power tweaks.

 

Aesthetic - Given their description, I'd honestly love to see an energy-form change on this to just *black,* a void (non capitalized.) But, not sure how doable that'd be.

 

Contacts - You're not working for Arachnos, you're not busted out of the Zig by them. You're a recent arrival via Shadow Cyst, and in a Council base. There'd have to be arcs from 1-50, of course, covering aspects of the Kheldian war. (This could be a chance for some community involvement as well, getting ideas and arcs - and of course having people interested in sticking close to the lore keeping an eye on things.) Personally, I think it'd be fun to have the arcs branching, sort of like the power/responsibility/warden/crusader in Praetoria, but more tied to you choosing how *you* are going to work your way to power - guiding (and stealing and capturing) scientific work for a superweapon (such as the cosmotron on the blueside arcs?) Controlling others and building up a powerbase that way? Deliberately targeting Arakhn and Requiem to take over from them?

 

Powers - Mostly Warshade-y, but the Nictus became what they are because of one simple thing - they didn't want to die. There should be tweaks to their powers (or, frankly, changes) that reflect that and their quest for control. Examples/ideas of tweaks or changes:

 

- Extract Essence. Sure, you can do this - but you can also absorb that essence, losing their additional firepower for health (the amount returned depending on how long the Essence had left to live.)

 

- Summon Voids - would have to replace something, but would summon Void Hunters. (You may want this specifically for some of the Nictus missions vs. other Khelds, but they'd also be useful extra firepower/meat shields.) You work(ed) with the Council, you have access to these... and given their N-fragment implants, just like the essences, if they've failed to protect you and you take damage, you can take their lives to lengthen your own.

 

- Empower. Why should Rommy have all the fun? You can grant an ally blasts of Nictus energy and/or an added Nictus energy component to their existing attacks (possibly a melee-range hold and energy/neg energy resist as well) for a short time. Costs you some life to do so (10% or less,) you get that back when the power wears off... of course, if the ally *dies,* you get damaged as well and are not getting that health back.

 

Cheap version? Grant a temp Quantum rifle to an ally for several minutes.

 

- Confuse. Nictus want control. So why not control an enemy? (Just add a basic confuse.) Granted, more fun might be "control an enemy" (after all, they try to take control in the ITF now...) but I'm not sure how doable that would realistically be.

 

Perhaps, as well, instead of going for Nova form, they can just revert to the wisps and blast from that... mostly for the sake of being different. (Or just having that as a "costume option.")

 

 

======

What about Peacebringers?

 

(No, I refuse to call them "warbringers." I've never liked that name, and they're already called Rogues  or Rogue peacebringers in game.)

 

Likely they'd mostly be the same as PBs, if done, though ... again, different contacts, different arcs. Given the Rogues weren't in this for power or control, but *severely* disagreeing with Sunstorm on how to handle the Warshades, they may not even start with the Council. Honestly, I could see this being more of a split arc, do you keep fighting or do you change your mind and work towards redemption... which would shift you to hero, or at least vig, at the end?

 

I don't think this'd need a powers change - they're still Peacebringers, after all. The only thing different is their philosophy and who they'd be willing to fight.

[biostem]

It would be interesting if a Nictus started off as a sort of generic "parasite controlling a host" type of thing, with some warshade-like blast attacks, but as you progressed, you had to decide if you were going to continue the forceful/involuntary possession of said host, or come to some sort of epiphany and come to terms with that host.  That decision then triggers a forced respec, (much like VEATS), where you now gain access to some different powers.  This could permit some interesting hybrid Kheldian, with a "pure" Nictus providing more parasitic powers - maybe some unique mechanics like you can only heal by stealing life, or only recover end by stealing it, etc.

[Rudra]

The only real issue I see is with side-switching. Currently, Peacebringers and Warshades can go villain whenever they want. According to the lore though, when a Nictus chooses redemption, they become a Warshade. So how would that work since the AT can't be changed after character creation?

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The only real issue I see is with side-switching. Currently, Peacebringers and Warshades can go villain whenever they want. According to the lore though, when a Nictus chooses redemption, they become a Warshade. So how would that work since the AT can't be changed after character creation?

I would imagine that a lot depends upon the extent and form of their "redemption" - maybe they're just against forceful possession of hosts now, maybe they've reconciled with their current host, but both agree that a path of villainy is amicable to them...

[Rudra]

53 minutes ago, biostem said:

I would imagine that a lot depends upon the extent and form of their "redemption" - maybe they're just against forceful possession of hosts now, maybe they've reconciled with their current host, but both agree that a path of villainy is amicable to them...

What about if they go hero?

[biostem]

43 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What about if they go hero?

Then they had a change of heart.

[Rudra]

55 minutes ago, biostem said:

Then they had a change of heart.

A Nictus that renounces their ways and 'goes good' becomes a Warshade according to Kheldian lore. Once a character is created, if the Nictus character goes full hero, like the Warshades did, which according to the Kheldian lore would make them into Warshades, what becomes of the Nictus character?

[Rigged]

 

6 hours ago, Greycat said:

Aesthetic - Given their description, I'd honestly love to see an energy-form change on this to just *black,* a void (non capitalized.) But, not sure how doable that'd be.

 

Feels like technically, this might not be so hard. By "void" would you accept the model of an unbound Nictus, the fluffballs that buff Rommy? The models are in the game and they already use blasts very similar (if not identical) to the squid form.

 

The main difficulty might be creating a whole bunch of story arcs for the EAT, but perhaps the devs might consider contributions made in the AE to be made official for the purpose of the EAT's arcs.

 

Feels like mechanically your Nictus is going to be very similar to a Warshade, with mostly cosmetic changes? As long as those cosmetics are already in the game for the devs to repurpose it seems entirely doable. Not sure about manually controlling an enemy (we don't know if the engine can support this, and if turns out it can, we'd better share this with Mind controllers or face a revolt), but a confuse power looks pretty viable.

[nihilii]

I would eat a nictus. I would also play one. Good suggestion.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

This sounds cool. 

Red side needs more love anyway

Kheldians need some.....something? lol

This could easily continue the story without breaking any established lore since there is no red side kheldian lore to begin with.

[Greycat]

So, answering a few questions...

 

What if they side switch?

 

As I mentioned, part of me wants to say they can't switch, or can't switch past grey. But I don't think that'd be welcomed much. Really, the main thing would be "you'd no longer be playing that story arc - you'd lose access to it," which is the same for both existing Khelds and SOAs. It  would feel *weird* to switch and suddenly "oh, you're picking up with Shadowstar's storyline, no fuss, no muss, no suspicion" after all - you were *just* actively their enemy.

 

Game-mechanics-wise (lack of a better descriptor) what's defining them as "nictus" is the side of the Kheldian war lore they're tied to. I mean, yes, the AT would be "Nictus" and you'd have that label on permanently - but it's a lore-bound AT and the main reason for its existence is exploring and revealing the *other* side of the lore of the war.  Loosely, it's like the Wizard of Oz (and I know Oz was a series) and Wicked being two different books looking at two different viewpoints of the story.  (Think Wicked was the book/play... it's been a while.)

 

Honestly, I'd love to see some sort of in-game reaction - you side switch, you become a *target* of your old allies/cronies/minions/victims. Maybe special tips or something where you have to deal with something a rival - Nictus or otherwise - sends against you. PPD Awakened and other Kheldians at least give some sort of commentary around you (maybe you *can't* form Moonfire, for instance, and there'll be comments that she's only begrudgingly allowing "that nictus" along - "but don't trust them. Don't turn your back on them.")  (Which would be nice for SoAs, even if it wouldn't fit all the characters that have been made from them as well.)

 

Appearance

 

As far as accepting the purple doomfluff that buffs Rommy - I mean, yeah. I'd probably have to, and it's what people are familiar with. Canonically, at least as far as I recall (I can't find my link to the Kheld design document/lore bible - not the Kheld backstory guide, I didn't put it in there since we didn't *have* it at the time,) - they abandoned that look and just appear *dark.* It's actually referenced in one or two arcs heroside where it just looks like shadows flitting around. (Formwise? Well, we *do* have the doppelgangers in Posi 1 as a basis, and Spectrum pieces colored black/black give a good "person-shaped hole in reality" look. Apply that to those clouds... )

 

But that's pretty much an "I'd like if" and visual differentiator, not a critical piece. If that couldn't be done, I'd just add it to the list of things that couldn't be done and play it anyway. 😉

 

... think that sums up the questions so far.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

What if they side switch?

 

As I mentioned, part of me wants to say they can't switch, or can't switch past grey. But I don't think that'd be welcomed much. Really, the main thing would be "you'd no longer be playing that story arc - you'd lose access to it," which is the same for both existing Khelds and SOAs. It  would feel *weird* to switch and suddenly "oh, you're picking up with Shadowstar's storyline, no fuss, no muss, no suspicion" after all - you were *just* actively their enemy.

 

Game-mechanics-wise (lack of a better descriptor) what's defining them as "nictus" is the side of the Kheldian war lore they're tied to. I mean, yes, the AT would be "Nictus" and you'd have that label on permanently - but it's a lore-bound AT and the main reason for its existence is exploring and revealing the *other* side of the lore of the war.  Loosely, it's like the Wizard of Oz (and I know Oz was a series) and Wicked being two different books looking at two different viewpoints of the story.  (Think Wicked was the book/play... it's been a while.)

 

Honestly, I'd love to see some sort of in-game reaction - you side switch, you become a *target* of your old allies/cronies/minions/victims. Maybe special tips or something where you have to deal with something a rival - Nictus or otherwise - sends against you. PPD Awakened and other Kheldians at least give some sort of commentary around you (maybe you *can't* form Moonfire, for instance, and there'll be comments that she's only begrudgingly allowing "that nictus" along - "but don't trust them. Don't turn your back on them.")  (Which would be nice for SoAs, even if it wouldn't fit all the characters that have been made from them as well.)

I am very much against having an AT introduced that couldn't do the same things every other character in the game can do, like side switch. The rest of your explanation works for me though. Thanks for providing it.

 

So if I am understanding correctly, a Nictus PC that changes sides stays a 'Nictus' instead of becoming a 'Warshade' simply because it is too soon for the Peacebringers and Warshades to accept the individual until (s)he/they proves to be an ally of at least Warshade levels. (Which considering the Peacebringer contacts don't actually trust the Warshades is saying something.) So the Nictus PC stays a Nictus PC instead of becoming a Warshade because of the extreme lack of trust from the other two groups. That works for me. Thanks.

 

(And yeah, I am very much in favor of the proposed Nictus AT not being able to do the Kheldian arcs blue side. However, if any other AT can start a given TF, then the Nictus AT should too. I have not run a Moonfire TF ever, and it has been a very long time since I was last on one. So I don't know if you need to be a Kheldian to start it or not. If you do, then yeah, the Nictus AT still wouldn't be flagged as a Kheldian, or at least would get a different Kheldian flag to prevent arc cross-over, and wouldn't be able to start it. If anyone can start it though, then even Moonfire should be available for them to start. Maybe she thinks she's dealing with a Warshade? I don't know.)

 

One last question about the AT: Peacebringers and Warshades are hunted by the Voids. Which I believe are hired by the Nictus to do so. Would a Nictus that goes hero also be subject to being hunted by Voids since the character would just be another filthy traitor like the Warshades now?

[Greycat]

28 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

I think the developers limited time and resources would be better spent on implementing things that would help the majority of players, such as purple IO sets with a +10 recharge bonus for Healing, Endurance Modification, Defense, Resistance, Taunt, To Hit Buff, To Hit Debuff, Slow, Defense Debuff, Fear, and Knockback... just to name a few. 

 

The developers are big boys and girls who can decide where to spend their time without us worrying about it.

 

47 minutes ago, Rudra said:

One last question about the AT: Peacebringers and Warshades are hunted by the Voids. Which I believe are hired by the Nictus to do so. Would a Nictus that goes hero also be subject to being hunted by Voids since the character would just be another filthy traitor like the Warshades now?

 

It'd be part of what I referred to in the last reply - which, granted, got wrapped up in mentioning other reactions from NPCs and the like - but I see no reason why someone who'd be viewed as a traitor (and even more of one, not to mention someone with *recent* secrets/plans) wouldn't be a *prime* target for Quantums and Voids, either sent by old rivals/allies or just as part of a general Kheldian hunt.

[Rudra]

Thanks for answering my questions. I'm satisfied. I'm in favor of the OP.

[Rudra]

19 minutes ago, Vindicator said:

Yes it is, and that's exactly where I hope the developers focus their time instead of wasting it on different colored Kheldians.

Ooh! That brings up an interesting question! Can the Kheldian forms be re-colored? Or just their blasts?

 

Edit: I'm not directing the question at @Vindicator, though (s)he/they are free to respond. His/her/their post just popped the question into my head, so it needed to be quoted for reference.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Rudra

[Greycat]

33 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Ooh! That brings up an interesting question! Can the Kheldian forms be re-colored? Or just their blasts?

 

Are you asking specifically about this, or in general? The forms can take on a tint. The aura around them is colored, at least in Nova, the base model from what I've seen stays the base color.

 

Example:

 

[Rudra]

36 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Are you asking specifically about this, or in general? The forms can take on a tint. The aura around them is colored, at least in Nova, the base model from what I've seen stays the base color.

 

Example:

 

Yep. That was exactly what I was asking about. Glad to see it can be done. Thanks.

[JasperStone]

1 hour ago, Vindicator said:

Yes it is, and that's exactly where I hope the developers focus their time instead of wasting it on different colored Kheldians.

Actually this solves many costumes problems people may be having.

I discovered this during my year long work on my PB, figured everyone knew.

 

What is not of value to you, will be of value to someone else.

 

[Vindicator]

I find it rather pathetic that the forum divas run to the mods when someone like me calls out their BS.  Then, my posts get deleted but what I said is still quoted.  Absolutely pathetic.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Vindicator

[MGoblin256]

Warshades are just Nictus that've gone good and opted to be symbiotic instead of parasitic. They're basically 1:1 copies of the Goa'uld and Tok'ra from Stargate: Same creatures, different philosophies.

 

Just roll up a Warshade, swap to redside via Null, and create an appropriate backstory. BAM: Instant Nictus. It's what I did. I don't think we need to create a whole new Archetype, especially one that is essentially a slight recolor of an existing one at best.

I would, however, be all for allowing Warshades to start on red side fresh out of the gate with a new set of contacts with Nictus-centric storylines. Hell. If possible, for added flavor, have the AT name switch based on alignment: Heroes/Vigilantes are Warshades, Villains/Rogues are Nictus.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by MGoblin256

[Davy]

6 hours ago, MGoblin256 said:

Warshades are just Nictus that've gone good and opted to be symbiotic instead of parasitic. They're basically 1:1 copies of the Goa'uld and Tok'ra from Stargate: Same creatures, different philosophies.

 

Just roll up a Warshade, swap to redside via Null, and create an appropriate backstory. BAM: Instant Nictus. It's what I did. I don't think we need to create a whole new Archetype, especially one that is essentially a slight recolor of an existing one at best.

I would, however, be all for allowing Warshades to start on red side fresh out of the gate with a new set of contacts with Nictus-centric storylines. Hell. If possible, for added flavor, have the AT name switch based on alignment: Heroes/Vigilantes are Warshades, Villains/Rogues are Nictus.

Pretty much this.

Though unless it was fixed I'll add if you want to avoid having Shadowstar staring at you with disappointment each time you open your contacts list you might want to hammer out her story arcs before you switch.

But I'm all for redside PB/WS arcs and even blueside AS/AW arcs at that.