It's time to talk about time at least on defenders

[KaizenSoze]

I dusted off one of my old defenders this week, time/ice. I remember enjoying it for awhile and then shelved it for reason I couldn't remember till now.

 

These are just my opinions and I am only talking about Time on defenders. Time seems to suffer from the useful until 50 issue that plagues some support sets. It's amazing especially at low levels. I remember time tanking PUGs and TFs. It fixes so many weakness on lower level teams.

 

Due to the current meta at 50, the -toHit, defense, and toHit is generally overkill due IOs and Barrier. Chrono Shift is nice, but often overkill due to Ageless. The heal is fine but is PBAOE and when players go down, it happens so quickly that only direct heals have a chance to land in time. The single target buff is nice, but not game changing. I would have preferred it to buff recovery instead of regen.

 

The character was originally designed as a slow monster, so I have slotted most of the slow powers heavily. But what I remember previously before I mothballed it, was that the slow really didn't matter in most 50 play. Things just die too fast.

 

What has your experience been at 50?

 

 

[Bellicose]

I only have one Time Defender - Time/Dual Pistols. However, I tend to think of that toon as an Offender. CJ, Maneuvers, Weave and perma-Farsight puts me at the Defense cap. Hasten and perma-Chrono Shift gives me all the recharge in the world. Smooth attack chain. The debuffs are available for lots of procs. Probably wisdom in revisiting that toon as Time/Fire, but not enough time to make ALL of the toons that sound good.

[KaizenSoze]

45 minutes ago, Bellicose said:

I only have one Time Defender - Time/Dual Pistols. However, I tend to think of that toon as an Offender. CJ, Maneuvers, Weave and perma-Farsight puts me at the Defense cap. Hasten and perma-Chrono Shift gives me all the recharge in the world. Smooth attack chain. The debuffs are available for lots of procs. Probably wisdom in revisiting that toon as Time/Fire, but not enough time to make ALL of the toons that sound good.

 The struggle is real with alts. 🙂 I just have this feeling that Incarnates over shadow Time's value at 50. Not trying to kill anyone's enjoyment of their time defender. Just wondering if any folks have been thinking along the same lines.

[Uun]

I haven't done Time on a defender but I like it a lot on a corruptor. 

[KaizenSoze]

42 minutes ago, Uun said:

I haven't done Time on a defender but I like it a lot on a corruptor. 

That makes sense as Time solves most of the a corruptor's defense issues.

 

It's rare to see a Time defender.

[Thrax]

I love time. Mine is a demons/time MM though. Buffing the pets helps them. That toon just buffs up, lets demons do their thing, and spams all the whip attacks cause they are awesome. I think time really shines on hard mode content where buffing defense and rebuffing to hit really help. 

[akodorokku]

On 6/23/2023 at 9:23 PM, Bellicose said:

I only have one Time Defender - Time/Dual Pistols. However, I tend to think of that toon as an Offender. CJ, Maneuvers, Weave and perma-Farsight puts me at the Defense cap. Hasten and perma-Chrono Shift gives me all the recharge in the world. Smooth attack chain. The debuffs are available for lots of procs. Probably wisdom in revisiting that toon as Time/Fire, but not enough time to make ALL of the toons that sound good.

I'm currently leveling time/pistols, would you be interested in sharing your build?

[tidge]

No comments on utility for Incarnate content. In some ways the game is degenerate enough in that content that it feels like entire primaries or secondaries aren't needed.

 

I am also working up a /Time Corruptor (so pre-level 50). I like it just fine, although it doesn't seem 'top tier' (at this point). As this is specifically not a defender, it would be imprudent for me to offer too much analysis, but here is a hot-take: Time Manipulation as a primary may not offer as much opportunity for "Offender" (%damage) builds. Yes the single-target Time Crawl and Time Stop offer %damage, but as near as I can tell the only reliable chance for AoE %proc chances are from Slowed Response. Solo probably would be a slog until enough slots exist and Endurance can be handled.

 

I'd think that simply keeping Farsight up and running Time's Juncture (while staying in the action) would be valuable for teams. Even with fast-moving teams it shouldn't take much effort to have Distortion Field in play for two-out-of-three spawns.

 

There are of course, pools that can be added to further support teams. Sorcery's Enflame is a decent mixed-utility power for example.

[Hopestar]

More -tohit, tohit, defense, and -recharge are all very appreciated at all levels, even 54s. Time can easily solo ITF when built right, so why even worry about what you bring to a team? Additionally, Time has the very rare heal resistance in it's heal, which is super strong for things like Hami or other enemies that reduce healing.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Hopestar

[Linea]

10 hours ago, akodorokku said:

I'm currently leveling time/pistols, would you be interested in sharing your build?

You'll have to dig around the forums for the original threads and updated versions, these are all very old.   Bopper's and Dahkness' builds are more offensive and probably where you want to look.  Kiski builds are heavy tanks that I take solo into hardmode content.

 

Time DP - Kiski - STF SLE Malfactor 2 - [i25].mxd

 

Time DP - Quarterback 2d - [i25].mxd   Time DP - Kiski - Sorcery 4i-b - [i25].mxd   Time DP - Kiski - FoN SLE 1a+ - [i26].mxd

 

Time DP - Bopper Proccer 1 - [i26].mxd   Time Dp Power - Bopper 1 - [i26].mxd   Time Dp Soul - Bopper 1 - [i26].mxd   Time Dp Soul - Bopper 2 - [i26].mxd

 

Time DP Defender - Dahkness 4-Star ITF v4 - [i27].mxdTime DP Defender - Dahkness HMITF v7 - [i27].mxd

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Linea

[TaxibotJoe]

Time is a strong set, especially at Defender specs. Take another look at the unslotted values—they’re good right out of the box.
 

Not to say that you should run Time unslotted, but at the risk of stating the obvious, if you’re finding your defensive primary to be too much of a good thing, a respec to shift your balance to your offensive secondary might be of benefit. Damage is a great debuff. 

 

-speed & -recharge are ok, but the are better slotting opportunities. Distortion Field and Slowed Response used to be nice little proc bombs.

 

As the heal is an HoT, try casting it a little earlier. It’s better at preventing disasters than reacting to them. 

 

To your other point, sometimes I think the end game AT’s are Lore, Judgement, Barrier, Clarion, and set bonuses, not Blaster, Tank, Defender, etc. 

[tidge]

7 hours ago, TaxibotJoe said:

 Distortion Field and Slowed Response used to be nice little proc bombs.

 

In my experience: Slowed Response, yes; Distortion Field, No. The latter accepts more %damage pieces, but (because it is a pseudopet?) the %proc chances are pretty bad, and even when slotting accuracy in the power itself the chances to trigger are quite poor (Accuracy slotting recommended as %damage also needs to make a ToHit roll).

 

I can see cases when the %damage from Distortion Field will occur, but how often it happens is rather poor considering other places where the slots could be used: either for %damage elsewhere, or Quality-of-Life choices like more Endurance savings/Recovery/Travel Speed/whatever.

 

The experiment that solidifed my opinion on this specific power was to take a character with Distortion Field into a low level Hazard Zone (large spawns of enemies which con grey) and toss the power.  Depending on player level, this should effectively reduce the ToHit portion of the %proc to minimal consideration, so it is possible to observe the %proc chances empirically. Do the same experiment with Slowed Response, the results were dramatically different, far beyond the different recharge times (as observed by the caster, not the pseudopet). Again: I'm not saying that the power never %procs, just that it is unreliable enough that anyone of the single-target powers (the slow, the hold) will, on average, end up doing more net %damage (assuming those powers are used).

 

My reconfigured build (Corruptor, again) went from 6 slots in Distortion Field to two; two of the moved slots went to Slowed Response 🙂

[TaxibotJoe]

21 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

In my experience: Slowed Response, yes; Distortion Field, No. The latter accepts more %damage pieces, but (because it is a pseudopet?) the %proc chances are pretty bad, and even when slotting accuracy in the power itself the chances to trigger are quite poor (Accuracy slotting recommended as %damage also needs to make a ToHit roll).

…

My reconfigured build (Corruptor, again) went from 6 slots in Distortion Field to two; two of the moved slots went to Slowed Response 🙂

That’s good info, thanks!

[SeraphimKensai]

I like time. However I regret it's heal not being named Rewind and Slowed Response not being called Fast Forward.

 

Then again Fast Forward I would make into a locational based pseudopet that lasts for 30 seconds so the debuffs would stack at intervals of time spent in the the patch.

[Hjarki]

The fundamental issue is that the idea of 'support' doesn't really work in CoH. As builds start nearing the limits of the game, what support AT provide becomes increasingly irrelevant to those builds. Few level 50 Incarnated builds really need hit/defense/recharge/recovery, for example. They already built to cover those needs. Even if this were not true, universal benefits like the Leadership pool and Barrier Destiny mean that any reasonably sized group is going to have a ton of certain buffs. Even when builds do have 'holes' in them, there's no way to know which set of holes your particular set of team mates will have.

 

As a result, the best 'support' builds tend to be builds that start from the premise of being independently useful and only then think about team utility. Moreover, when they're thinking primarily about augmenting damage - which is something which tends to have nearly unlimited upside - rather than more conventional aspects of support like 'healing'.

 

Time Manipulation is a good example of where this problem arises. Time Manipulation is a fantastic set from the standpoint of the buffing the user with Farsight and Chrono Shift. But neither of these powers are very impressive for our fully incarnated level 50 team mate who already has the defense/hit/recharge/recovery they need to run their build. Slowed Response is what impresses them... and it's not a particularly impressive example of the type. So our Time/X Defender is running around with abysmal personal damage and with buffs/heals that most of our team doesn't care about. It's not necessarily a bad build - just not a particularly useful one for our team.

 

Basically, if your support set isn't doing anything meaningful for the team, you might as well bring a Blaster. And if you're bringing a Blaster, you might as well just bring a Scrapper.

[Agorazium]

I think Time is underrated as an endgame set (and also that on a team where Time isn’t useful, no other support set would be either). Slowed Response’s AOE -res, Chrono Shift’s +recharge and the +damage from the single target buff are meaningful team DPS increases even if they don’t feel like they’re making much of a difference, and Farsight is amazing at all levels - not every level 50 character is softcapped and fully IOd and Farsight bridges any gaps basically on its own. Time Stop is a stellar proc bomb and I always enjoy being able to help stack holds on a non-control AT. The set is also not endurance heavy so you’re able to run pool support powers with ease. 

 

It may not be the absolute best set for endgame content but I do think it’s in the upper echelon, and unless you’re running incarnate content and absolutely nothing else, you’re going to be a major asset to most teams.

[KaizenSoze]

On 6/29/2023 at 1:12 PM, Hjarki said:

Time Manipulation is a good example of where this problem arises. Time Manipulation is a fantastic set from the standpoint of the buffing the user with Farsight and Chrono Shift. But neither of these powers are very impressive for our fully incarnated level 50 team mate who already has the defense/hit/recharge/recovery they need to run their build. Slowed Response is what impresses them... and it's not a particularly impressive example of the type. So our Time/X Defender is running around with abysmal personal damage and with buffs/heals that most of our team doesn't care about. It's not necessarily a bad build - just not a particularly useful one for our team.

 

Basically, if your support set isn't doing anything meaningful for the team, you might as well bring a Blaster. And if you're bringing a Blaster, you might as well just bring a Scrapper.

 Yes, articulates what I was feeling. Time is a great sub-50 set, but the drop off is noticeable due to Incarnates. It's the, pre-buffs, version of Sentinels of defender sets.

[Onlyasandwich]

If Time isn't doing it for you, what Defender primary is? It has most everything you could want, and every power affects you as well.

 

If people are hitting optimal defense/hit/recharge/recovery on their own, there's precious little any Support powerset will offer them. There again, they could also stand to slot their own AT's more aggressively for max damage and procs, allowing room for Support sets to contribute more when present.

 

Slowed Response is a really solid -res debuff in any case, with the added bonus of higher than average proc bomb potential for powers in this category. Only very select few sets that specialize in it bring more offense to the team than this pretty standard contribution anyhow.

[StriderIV]

35 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

If Time isn't doing it for you, what Defender primary is? It has most everything you could want, and every power affects you as well.

 

If people are hitting optimal defense/hit/recharge/recovery on their own, there's precious little any Support powerset will offer them. There again, they could also stand to slot their own AT's more aggressively for max damage and procs, allowing room for Support sets to contribute more when present.

 

Slowed Response is a really solid -res debuff in any case, with the added bonus of higher than average proc bomb potential for powers in this category. Only very select few sets that specialize in it bring more offense to the team than this pretty standard contribution anyhow.

First, +1 to this.

 

Second, it’s good to see you on the boards Only! I hope you’ve been well!

[Onlyasandwich]

7 hours ago, StriderIV said:

I hope you’ve been well!

Thanks Strider! Life has been offering some good things lately indeed. Glad to see you still around.