Stats after each TF

[Ruin Mage]

What keeps me as a no is the 'finally, sensible people' style of responses rather than thinking people can, y'know, disagree with a suggestion. People are being sensible, but you just hate that not everyone is agreeing with the idea.

Let's be completely honest; Stats after a Task Force would require a pop-up window or the current one (that displays deaths/times/certain settings) to be much bigger. A new pop-up window to display all the stats being asked for would require a way to track them. Combat logs? Sure that can work, but there's only so much displayed through that as I recall.

Secondly, this game is old and does not have a challenging ceiling to get to. Its exceptionally easy to make builds in this game versus others, and the game isn't that hard. The most challenging content is the 4-star stuff at the moment - the other stuff being a mindless deathbowl (MSR) or a slightly coordinated jello fight (Hamidon) while only a handful of people are needed to competently complete iTrials.

4 Stars require good builds, sure, but they also require coordination to some degree greater than +4/x8 Council Radios. In comparison you tend to breeze through a task force in no time outside of the Shadow Shard ones, Synapse, and Citadel - which are more by way of tedium than anything. You'll not get good information out of those because you're either at-level, below level, or exemplar'd down. Which says nothing of value towards any theoretical buildcrafting you might be seeking to do.

Ultimately, stats after a task force does nothing especially when none of them pre-Hard Modes are all that challenging. You don't get any good concrete information on what your build may be lacking. Doing the most damage doesn't say anything, doing the most healing (which can be done by anyone and most support sets have some general heal-type powers), and so on doesn't tell you anything. Especially when you consider the different passives (Blaster vs Corruptor vs Scrapper vs Brute - etc) playing a bit of a role in damage dealt.

All in all, if you want a min-maxing buildcrafting type of game? There's plenty of others that'll fill that itch way way better than City of Heroes. Especially with a meta that won't change as often as other games. I look at Fire Blast & Cold Domination's superiority in terms of what their sets do.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Shadeknight

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, MJABBAR88 said:

You are misguided. As people have mentioned the stats you mentio are not trackable, hence, they would never be included. Let’s stick to the stats that are actually possible. 

 

No, you're refuting that there would have to be work put in to record, parse and display the missing information so it would be a tool relevant to and useful to everyone, rather than just the people exclusively focused on damage and healing, and dismissing those other stats as irrelevant because you refuse to admit that what you want doesn't encompass the wants of all players, much less that creating a tool with relevance for some players and denying everyone else the same thing would be inferred as developer favoritism, create divisiveness, and be detrimental to the community as a whole.

 

All or nothing.

[MJABBAR88]

23 hours ago, Chronicler J said:

 

I've asked for this throughout the years. Usually results in the casual community making a mess of their Depends, even with private stats as the main idea. In all honesty, I don't need your stat readout to tell if you're dead weight. Half the time I can peek the power window and get a good laugh. Is it about time we had stats? Yes. Will this community approve it? No. We still have Beanbag. 

It’s easy to see why you get deterred from ever posting anything on these forums. If you suggest any changes the dinosaurs start roaring and come for you. 
 

 

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, MJABBAR88 said:

It’s easy to see why you get deterred from ever posting anything on these forums. If you suggest any changes the dinosaurs start roaring and come for you. 
 

 

And you keep re-emphasizing the problem with the OP. That only your view point is valid. No one that disagrees with you is sensible, we are all dinosaurs. You can't make an argument in favor of the OP except by denigrating everyone that disagrees. Which is itself a fairly toxic mind set.

 

Only Damage (taken or dealt) and Heals matter! Nothing anyone else has mentioned in this thread has any relevance to anything a player may conceive of as fun or useful to see/know!

 

Only Damage (taken or dealt) and Heals matter! Anyone that disagrees with the suggestion of making it more tracked and viewable in the game than it already is by making it as a final stat window is not sensible and a dinosaur!

 

Some ATs are useless! I will let them tag along if I feel like it though! (Barring any thought of others that won't when given any further incentive to consider them useless despite what they contribute to any team.)

 

You see the problem? Do you see the growing toxicity of the OP? It hasn't even been implemented, and yet you and some others are already showing disdain for your fellow players and some ATs. Instead of providing justification to support the suggestion, which some of the OP's detractors have themselves posited even as they weigh the toxicity of the OP as it was in other games, you and a few other posters choose to attack your fellow players. It is that sort of behavior that we are trying to keep out. And yes, it may already exist in the game, but that does not mean we should encourage it or give it more ways to rear its ugly head in a game where players are encouraged to work together to achieve their goals.

[blue4333]

So many people talking about how DPS wanting their stats to be shown is toxic yada yada.

 

But the support players are frothing at their mouths talking about CC and Heals and Status effects with the same levels of ego and e-peen as DPS players.

 

Put in a buff/debuff duration % uptime and heals and maybe they will be happy?

[MJABBAR88]

4 hours ago, blue4333 said:

So many people talking about how DPS wanting their stats to be shown is toxic yada yada.

 

But the support players are frothing at their mouths talking about CC and Heals and Status effects with the same levels of ego and e-peen as DPS players.

 

Put in a buff/debuff duration % uptime and heals and maybe they will be happy?

I commend your effort Blue but it’s best to give up. They won’t let anybody have any stats if they can’t have every single stat. Communism at its finest. 

[SwitchFade]

49 minutes ago, MJABBAR88 said:

I commend your effort Blue but it’s best to give up. They won’t let anybody have any stats if they can’t have every single stat. Communism at its finest. 

That's not at all what communism is.

 

This thread has well and truly been beaten to death.

 

GMs? What say ye?

[Biosphere]

People would like to see their stats on how much they did in the TF, or AE, whatever content it is. Just for fun or otherwise. 

 

If you make the screen of the person's stats only visible to them I think it solves the issue of any perceived elitism. Nobody else knows my numbers except me. This is basically the same thing as the monitor from the city zones that tracks your damage dealt etc just more specific to the missions you ran. And that terminal is only accessible by you (for your stats).

Edited July 10, 2023 by Biosphere

[Akisan]

10 hours ago, blue4333 said:

But the support players are frothing at their mouths talking about CC and Heals and Status effects with the same levels of ego and e-peen as DPS players.

 

DPS here (blaster).  Big reason I want those numbers is so I know who's doing such a great job of keeping me alive when I get too excited - after all, a dead Blaster deals no damage (Rise of the Phoenix notwithstanding).  Other reason'd be that I *also* contribute to those numbers, and it'd be nice to see how much of an impact my Slows / Holds / Heals are actually having.

 

Oh, and that whole "ego and e-peen" bit is kinda why I don't want these stats - because public or not, it fuels toxic behavior.  Again, these stats are typically displayed in PvP games where it makes sense to display them (so you know if you're doing well or having an off game), and a lot of those games also have problems with toxic playerbases.  It may simply be correlation, but it's so not worth the risk.

 

 

5 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

6 hours ago, MJABBAR88 said:

I commend your effort Blue but it’s best to give up. They won’t let anybody have any stats if they can’t have every single stat. Communism at its finest. 

That's not at all what communism is.

 

 

True - this would be an example of "Letting Perfect be the enemy of Good", or possibly "Crab Mentality".  (With more than a little bit of Strawman involved). But that's getting off-topic...

 

13 minutes ago, Biosphere said:

If you make the screen of the person's stats only visible to them I think it solves the issue of any perceived elitism. Nobody else knows my numbers except me. This is basically the same thing as the monitor from the city zones that tracks your damage dealt etc just more specific to the missions you ran. And that terminal is only accessible by you (for your stats).

 

I used to play a lot of Overwatch (Mercy main here, used to be high platinum), and I remember Blizzard having to take a lot of precautions & steps to stop that stuff.  I don't think they've succeded, but then, it's been a while.  Oh - and those stats are private, so I'm not sure that's enough to stop that kind of behavior.

[OverkillEngine]

36 minutes ago, Akisan said:

Oh - and those stats are private, so I'm not sure that's enough to stop that kind of behavior.

 

Speaking from experience in other games, even what should be privately viewable only stats will get abused to gatekeep if they are accessible enough to share; unless the GM's go full on authoritarian and permaban happy for attempting to solicit or share those stats in any form.

Simpler to just not provide them and deny fertile soil for that sort of behavior.

Also, the tendency for people to number/KD chase to the detriment of team cohesion and content completion blows goats. You see that crap all the time in games like Overwatch where people pull a C9.

Edited July 11, 2023 by OverkillEngine

[Ruin Mage]

15 hours ago, MJABBAR88 said:

They won’t let anybody have any stats if they can’t have every single stat. Communism at its finest. 

Christ you are one salty kid at not having people agree with your idea unanimously.

 

 

9 hours ago, Biosphere said:

If you make the screen of the person's stats only visible to them I think it solves the issue of any perceived elitism. Nobody else knows my numbers except me. This is basically the same thing as the monitor from the city zones that tracks your damage dealt etc just more specific to the missions you ran. And that terminal is only accessible by you (for your stats).

Sure, private stats might work ala the Monitors but I just don't think this game's stats tell people the right thing. City of Heroes isn't built for stats being the biggest deal outside of defense/resistances.

[srmalloy]

19 hours ago, MJABBAR88 said:

They won’t let anybody have any stats if they can’t have every single stat. Communism at its finest. 

Sometimes I have to wonder about the mindset of the people whose enjoyment of the game is fixated, not in playing the game and accepting that the RNG hates you and loves you with an utter disregard for what you want, but in being able to verify that their latest tweak to their build has improved their stats by a whopping 0.000083% over their previous build.

[Bionic_Flea]

No stats for you!

 

/jranger

 

But I would like the terminals to display all the stats they used to.  Or a revised set of personal character stats.

[OldManMercy]

[0th Power]

I would love for everything to be tracked but I don’t want perfect to be the enemy of good. I would enjoy any stats at the end even if it was incomplete. 

[MJABBAR88]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:01 PM, Akisan said:

 

People are... judgy^{[Citation Needed]}, especially after something goes poorly.  Not everyone (or even most) will be, and there are plenty of legitimate uses for a tool like this, but, well, the exceptions make the rule. Even if a small fraction of people are toxic about this in game, it'll have a huge impact on how accessible the game feels for "non-elite" players, and make our community feel much more toxic and elitist. (Like what @Biosphere's friend went through, only now more quantifiable and widespread)

I thought the player base was a bit older and non toxic for this game. But I guess you’re right, some people’s behaviour in the forums is very questionable. 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, MJABBAR88 said:

I thought the player base was a bit older and non toxic for this game. But I guess you’re right, some people’s behaviour in the forums is very questionable. 

Says someone that has chosen to repeatedly insult everyone that disagrees rather than provide reasons for the OP or suggest any means for controlling the toxic behavior the OP has brought out in every other game with such a scoreboard added.

 

I had been willing to entertain the player viewable only option, but not the automatic stat window of the OP, but that was until it was pointed out in this thread that even personally viewable only stat windows still get used to toxic effect in other games. I'm at a loss here. Why is your fun so important but not anyone else's? Why can't you even make an attempt to work with others to at least try to find a way to prevent the behaviors that have been pointed out instead of insisting that your fellow players are toxic for not agreeing, are not sensible for not agreeing, and are dinosaurs for not agreeing? (I'm citing your first response on the 1st page of this thread for the toxic comment if you are wondering where that part came from.)

 

One player's fun cannot come at the expense of other players. One person's ego stroking too often proves a detriment to other players. Do you have a suggestion for how to keep that in check? Do you have a suggestion for how to keep after TF stats from being used against other players or ATs? Because I sure don't. Nothing I have seen or that I can think of addresses those problems. Problems that already exist if players like you think that there are useless ATs like you mentioned in your 1st 4-star ITF comment.

 

City of Heroes/Villains is meant to be an open and welcoming game/environment for all players. At least that is my take on it. And the use of stat boards/windows, especially when so myopically focused on damage and heals, has caused open and welcoming game environments to become less so, mostly to very toxic effect. Every time. Which discourages and chases off players for the sake of elitist ego-preening. If the damage and heals stat window is so important to you, how should that be addressed? How do you keep the game open and welcoming for all players despite having an actual scoreboard to track how much damage or healing took place, with no consideration for anything else?

 

And 'people just know the support is needed' is not a useful response, because from personal experience, it isn't true.

[Luminara]

50 minutes ago, MJABBAR88 said:

I thought the player base was a bit older and non toxic for this game.

 

Calling people "toxic" because you aren't getting your way reflects on you, not everyone else.  Grow the fuck up.

[SwitchFade]

Has anyone seen my stick? I found a horse lying here...

[Rudra]

31 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Has anyone seen my stick? I found a horse lying here...

Not recently. Would you like to borrow my cudgel?  😜

Edited July 12, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

Don't waste good meat!

 

https://www.tasteatlas.com/most-popular-horse-dishes-in-italy

[Luminara]

57 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Has anyone seen my stick? I found a horse lying here...

 

Neigh.

[Bionic_Flea]

5 hours ago, MJABBAR88 said:

I thought the player base was a bit older and non toxic for this game. But I guess you’re right, some people’s behaviour in the forums is very questionable. 

 

[MJABBAR88]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Calling people "toxic" because you aren't getting your way reflects on you, not everyone else.  Grow the fuck up.

Thank the devs I’ve got high toxic resistance. Let’s up the sophistication and leave the profanity to wow. 

[Rudra]

Okay, the author is clearly just trolling the forums. Can we get this thread locked please?