Stats after each TF

[SwitchFade]

I repeat,

 

No vote.

[Doomguide2005]

27 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

I repeat,

 

No vote.

I'm in the 'no thanks' camp as well.  First is you've got combat logs and apps to pull and let you know much of what is being asked for.  See @Carnifax's combat parser as an example.  Then there's your Combat Attributes and ability to monitor them or your foes (via both in-game powers and temp powers).  No idea if there's a useful app similar to Carni's avaliable to do so already.  Lastly all the above and just paying attention I've usually got a pretty fair idea of how well I'm performing.  Died three times the other night during a Tinpex run.  Most of my characters that's a shrug, stuff happens.  But this wasn't just any of my characters this was my main, my number One.  She rarely dies, much less three times vs a single AV (Bobcat) in a single encounter.  That got my attention and had me looking at things.  Usually in those rare instances where she dies it is obvious operator error.  This was less so and the errors combined with circumstances probably precipitated the event.  Situations like that are about the only time I truly care how I performed.  Then you have characters and team concepts built around powers such as Rise of the Phoenix, Soul Transfer and Fallout ... plus Vengeance and other things I'm probably forgetting as well. How does it account for those.  Devlopers, imo, have many other things to worry about before this potentially toxic addition.

[Sevensins]

2 hours ago, Spankea said:

 

This game is heavily played with buffs and debuffs, how would you credit them?  Control sets would be even harder.

total duration of buffs on teammates. Total time spent cc’d or debuffed.

[Spankea]

32 minutes ago, Sevensins said:

total duration of buffs on teammates. Total time spent cc’d or debuffed.

Yes, you can add different stat scores, but how would you credit the use of those buffs, debuffs, and holds into the stats that the OP listed?  Like if the support toon had 20% -res placed on a mob, would they get kill credit when the mob's health is equivalent to the debuff?  Another example is if support put a lot of +def on a teammate, without it they would have been hit, would they get credit for HPS since they proactively kept them healed?  The other way around now if the support doesn't use powers and squishies keep dying because they're held, if they hadn't been held they would have no deaths.   Like in 4* you don't get insps to save yourself and if you just start taking power pools to protect yourself it'll likely be at the expense of more team friendly powers.

[Rudra]

Add in how much the -DEF from the support turned a miss from a team member into a hit, the +ACC/ToHit that also turned a team member's miss into a hit, the -RES increasing the team member's damage, the +DEF that turned a hit on a team member into a miss, the -ACC/ToHit that turned a hit on a team member into a miss, the +RES that reduced the damage team members took, the heal that turned a team member's imminent demise into just another injury, the status clearing that turned a team member from a spectator back into a combatant, the -RECH that reduced the number of attacks the target was even capable of, the -END/REC that also reduced the number of attacks the target was even capable of, the +RECH that enabled team members to attack more frequently, the +REC that also enabled team members to attack more frequently, the stuns that stopped targets from attacking at all for a while, the fear/terror that also stopped at least some of the attacks from targets, the immobs that kept targets from scattering or flat out running away, the holds that stopped targets from doing anything at all, the sleeps that paused targets' attacks for a while, the teleports that yanked targets back into attack range, and so forth.

 

And you would need to track all that separately to give a fair and unbiased view of what happened during the TF. And that is on top of adding the code to track all that information since as far as I know, it is not currently tracked as linked to any given character. That is a lot of information for no gain I can see other than stroking someone's ego.

[Akisan]

20 minutes ago, Rudra said:

... the status clearing that turned a team member from a spectator back into a combatant ...

 

This would be why I consider Injection to be the most valuable power on my tray, at least below level 45 (people having Clarion makes it kinda redundant).  Freeing a Support AT usually keeps the fight from going very, very sideways. (That, and 2 free blasters hit a lot harder than 1 free and 1 CC'd blaster)

[wjrasmussen]

On 6/26/2023 at 5:23 PM, Rudra said:

Disagreeing with a suggestion isn't being toxic. It is disagreeing. And some of us gave reasons why we disagree. This has been implemented in other games to toxic effect. That is what we are saying.

Exactly.  I don't want to see the people behind such toxic effect get any power here to recreate that toxic effect.  Some people live to create toxic environments. 

[Ghost]

Forming +4x8 KM ITF - must send me stats of last 3 ITFs you’ve run, for consideration.

[MJABBAR88]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:32 PM, Ghost said:

Forming +4x8 KM ITF - must send me stats of last 3 ITFs you’ve run, for consideration.

The stats do not stick with you. They show at the end of the tf and that’s that. 

[Ruin Mage]

Still not a good idea or worth the unyielding amount of issues it'll cause.

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, MJABBAR88 said:

The stats do not stick with you. They show at the end of the tf and that’s that. 

Better screenshot em, or you can’t join my Super L33T ITFs

[MJABBAR88]

9 hours ago, Ghost said:

Better screenshot em, or you can’t join my Super L33T ITFs

I’ve never seen that in game. But perhaps these are the people you team with.

even the 4star itfs I do allow useless archetypes to tag along.

[Ghost]

4 hours ago, MJABBAR88 said:

I’ve never seen that in game. But perhaps these are the people you team with.

even the 4star itfs I do allow useless archetypes to tag along.

Guess my sarcasm isn’t coming across very well

 

I was simply trying to point out what we would start seeing if stats were displayed for TFs.

Kind of like how I regularly see barrier a requirement for 4*,  Alpha a requirement for TinPex and occasionally people only wanting lvl50+ players for lvl35+ content.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Ghost

[Panache]

Junior Anger

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, MJABBAR88 said:

even the 4star itfs I do allow useless archetypes to tag along.

It's things like this we are trying to keep out of the game. Thank you for highlighting it.

[Spankea]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

It's things like this we are trying to keep out of the game. Thank you for highlighting it.

I think we all had this factored in when we read the title of the thread...

[Panache]

There it is

[Akisan]

8 hours ago, Ghost said:

Alpha a requirement for TinPex

 

This one at least makes some sense - you have to have Alpha unlocked to participate, but if you don't socket something in it, you're forcibly equipped with an Alpha "power" that gives you -4 level shift.  Any Alpha, even a common, slotted there prevents this.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Akisan said:

This one at least makes some sense - you have to have Alpha unlocked to participate, but if you don't socket something in it, you're forcibly equipped with an Alpha "power" that gives you -4 level shift.  Any Alpha, even a common, slotted there prevents this.

I'm pretty sure they removed the penalty, and the Wiki appears to confirm this:  Apex Task Force

[Akisan]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'm pretty sure they removed the penalty, and the Wiki appears to confirm this:  Apex Task Force

 

That is good to know, thank you!  And in that case, no, Alpha shouldn't be a requirement for those TFs (though, I doubt I'm the only one that missed that change, so people will probably still advertise for it that way...)

[Razor Cure]

I think this would be a good idea. Make it optional. Start of the TYF, you all select Yes/No. Someone at the end picked YEs and starts slagging a player? Where is the poof?

And as others have said, who cares. CoX has never been like WoW, where no gear/dps/power pick will get you booted (aside from the Original RSF).

It would be cool (i think) to see things like total damage output, damage taken (or deflected, with def?), buffs/debuffs applied, etc.

[MJABBAR88]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:37 AM, Razor Cure said:

I think this would be a good idea. Make it optional. Start of the TYF, you all select Yes/No. Someone at the end picked YEs and starts slagging a player? Where is the poof?

And as others have said, who cares. CoX has never been like WoW, where no gear/dps/power pick will get you booted (aside from the Original RSF).

It would be cool (i think) to see things like total damage output, damage taken (or deflected, with def?), buffs/debuffs applied, etc.

Finally someone sensible. No one cares that much. It’s just for fun. Of course we can’t track everything and rank players according to performance etc. that’s not what we are asking for here. 

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, MJABBAR88 said:

Finally someone sensible. No one cares that much. It’s just for fun. Of course we can’t track everything and rank players according to performance etc. that’s not what we are asking for here. 

Just because others disagree does not make them not sensible. And saying "No one cares that much" flies in the face of the sheer amount of opposition this thread has seen.

[biostem]

On 7/1/2023 at 11:37 PM, Razor Cure said:

I think this would be a good idea. Make it optional. Start of the TYF, you all select Yes/No.

If the information is only ever listed for your own performance, and to you exclusively, then sure.  If it's some sort of "majority rules", then I'm not as inclined.

 

On 7/1/2023 at 11:37 PM, Razor Cure said:

Someone at the end picked YEs and starts slagging a player? Where is the poof?

Well, given that there are instances, however rare, of players being harassed, I'd rather not provide more tools to enable such harassment.

 

On 7/1/2023 at 11:37 PM, Razor Cure said:

And as others have said, who cares. CoX has never been like WoW, where no gear/dps/power pick will get you booted (aside from the Original RSF).

Plenty of folks have voiced that they do, in fact, care.  Again, while rare, I have seen instances where players were, shall we say, "lectured" for improper builds or power usage.  They may not have been outright kicked from groups, but there are some people that make no qualms about providing unsolicited advice...

 

On 7/1/2023 at 11:37 PM, Razor Cure said:

It would be cool (i think) to see things like total damage output, damage taken (or deflected, with def?), buffs/debuffs applied, etc.

As I said above, if such statistics are only for your own character and only visible to you, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.  I do not think the game can actually track damage that was mitigated via a defense buff or such, though...

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I do not think the game can actually track damage that was mitigated via a defense buff or such, though...

No, the game does not track how much damage was mitigated by your damage resist or how much damage you would have taken had your defense not deflected it. Let alone how much was mitigated because Player A buffed Player B's resists and/or defense. Nor can it track how much damage was mitigated because the mob was held, stunned, slept, had its damage output reduced, or had its accuracy/ToHit reduced. Or track anything else that would be needed for a fair and unbiased presentation other than how much damage was dealt, how much damage was received, and how many defeats of self or targets.

 

So the OP would render CoX like so many other games I've seen, both video game and table top, where players abandon teamwork to pick off the most damaged targets so they can get the credit for the kill even when it would be most helpful for the team to spread out their focus or actively support each other, the race to be the first to pop their nukes and hope it drops more targets than their teammates' nukes (which already happens, admittedly), and the abandonment of support powers/ATs in favor of raw damage more so than we already see in the game's current meta. All for being able to claim that (s)he got the most kills and/or did the most damage. More ATs would be flagged as "useless" like the author declared we already have for not being high damage dealers, leading to more players finding themselves excluded from game content unless the elitist uber damage players are magnanimous enough to let the "useless ATs tag along".

 

@Razor Cure said CoX is not like WoW, but the game as it currently stands also does not lend itself to such behavior, whereas the OP would definitely make it possible. And as you have said, there are already players that either discriminate against certain AT builds (Energy Blast with its KB anyone?), gleefully point out how bad a <insert AT> player you are because you built your character not to peak efficiency/power in favor of theme or versatility, or even pass over your character for certain content for being the wrong AT. Or "useless AT" as the author so helpfully called them.

 

(Edit: And it was always "added for fun" or sometimes for end of game bonuses. Funny then how much bickering and resentment it created among the players after introduction. Every time for every game I saw it added. It never mattered how small those bonuses were or if there were no bonuses at all and it was just bragging rights. It always led to toxic behavior and arguments.)

Edited July 5, 2023 by Rudra