The single target immob on trollers - Is it worth anything late game

[rksr9997]

The question is does this ability on controllers equate to good single target DPS for controllers? Or is it something that should just be abandoned in later levels? I am asking in terms of a character I will play all the game content on so down to lower levels as well. 

 

The power has a really low END cost and I am wondering if with about 3 damage procs in it that it winds up being a good addition to your DPS chain. I'm specifically wondering about Entangle for Plant Control which doesn't do anything but some DOT and Immob.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, rksr9997 said:

The question is does this ability on controllers equate to good single target DPS for controllers?

For me, the key is that it's a mag 4 immob, meaning you can stop a boss in-place with only 1 casting, AND set them up to take containment damage.  I don't have the exact numbers, but IIRC, they do decent damage, but generally it's over time.  In other words, use it to keep enemies away from you and to setup that yummy 2x damage!

[Panache]

For me, I usually only take the ST immob if I’m interested in soloing AVs with that character. 

[rksr9997]

How are you usually slotting these powers then for max damage?

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by rksr9997
Misspelling

[Uun]

I usually 5-slot with Devastation or Decimation. Procs don't have a great return in powers with a 4-second base recharge.

[tidge]

13 hours ago, Panache said:

For me, I usually only take the ST immob if I’m interested in soloing AVs with that character. 

 

This is probably the best "late game" reason to have/use a single-target immobilize. I almost never take ST-immobs (if I have the choice); AVs and GMs are pretty much the only content where I miss having such a power.

 

As an aside: I think ST-immobilize is one of the most useful (for certain fights, see above) powers that isn't available from P2W. There are a handful of temp attacks that can be earned through various missions but AFAIK that is it. I'm always somewhat amazed that we can buy Envenomed Daggers but not Web Grenades from P2W. Flooring an GM's regeneration doesn't strike me as being radically different than getting them to stay in place (even for a short time).

 

14 hours ago, rksr9997 said:

The question is does this ability on controllers equate to good single target DPS for controllers? ...  I am asking in terms of a character I will play all the game content on so down to lower levels as well.

 

I wouldn't try to get DPS out of a ST-immobilize. The damage scale is not kind to Controllers. I definitely would not slot for %damage, as @Uun notes the high-base-recharge powers have pretty bad %proc rates. I'd dedicate no more than 2 slots (Acc and Mezz) and then switch to a single Boosted or HamiO piece in a final build.

[nihilii]

I always pick my ST immobilizes for the purpose of DPS. As mentioned, it sets up Containment; just as importantly you will struggle to build a full attack chain without the ST immobilize.

Procs are poor in it but at the same time what are you going to do after 95% damage enhancement? Mines still tend to end up with 1-2 damage procs, got to squeeze all the juice we can.

[SwitchFade]

For every min maxed controller I have built, I never take the single target immob, always the single target hold. The immob is a skip.

[Wimbochismo]

I usually only pick up the ST immob to help fill out an attack chain on a Controller. The big standout others have mentioned is that the dmg is a dot so can take a bit to ramp up. Standard Controller building for (at least 3) ST attacks usually involves proccing the ST hold for good dmg, taking possibly Arcane Bolt, possibly an Epic attack. If I'm struggling to fit in other pool powers I'd probably take the immob. 

 

Having said all of that I reviewed my Controller builds and none of my 50's actually took the immob lol.

 

Having looked at the immob across multiple Controller primaries before, some do less dpa than others. Lets take a look at the different dpa's of the immob's and other attacks you'd usually take. This is quick and dirty with MID's numbers (sans Containment) so may be slightly off and doesn't account for procs. I'm excluding some attacks from primaries with more natural attack chains like Gravity/Mind.

 

Other Pool Attacks

• Fire Blast 24.47
• Ice Blast 18.31
• Mental Blast 18.31
• Hurl Boulder 20.06
• Arcane Bolt 26.17

ST Immobilizes

• Shadowy Binds 25.49
• Stone Prison 24.87
• Electric Fence 18.31
• Ring of Fire 28.76
• Crush 23
• Chillblain 26.14
• Spectral Wounds 65.17 (healback)
• Mes 18.31
• Entangle 25.49
• Melodic 20.39

[Wimbochismo]

To clarify my thoughts a bit more, I think outside of dpa some of the argument boils down to dot vs upfront dmg. If you're solo or fighting AV's then the dot dmg is going to reach its full duration more often. If you team or are a part of the fast moving meta then you may lose dps with the immob.

 

Controller's are already low dps but it seems a lot (but not all) of their dmg revolves around dots/persistent dmg effects. It's another merit for procs to get it more upfront.

 

It kind of sucks in the current state of the game. The more ideal dot/persistent dmg AT's are Brute's and Corruptor's due to the way Fury and Scourge mechanics work.

[Doomguide2005]

Pretty much agree with all the above.  I'd take the single target immobilize for early game if at all.  Usually I'll just use the AoE for AVs while teaming.  If I planned to take AVs solo I'd lean more towards the single target being included.

[Area Man]

It depends on the build, but I take it with most controllers as one of the few sources of direct damage and Containment.  It is good for stacking Immob on bosses and tougher targets.  It can also be used as a good IO set mule, too.

In particular, Ice and Electric control are so low damage that it becomes one of the few sources of damage.  However, that also depends on the secondary -- I may respec out of the Immob on a */Storm, since Storm add good damage in later levels.

[Doomguide2005]

12 minutes ago, Area Man said:

It depends on the build, but I take it with most controllers as one of the few sources of direct damage and Containment.  It is good for stacking Immob on bosses and tougher targets.  It can also be used as a good IO set mule, too.

In particular, Ice and Electric control are so low damage that it becomes one of the few sources of damage.  However, that also depends on the secondary -- I may respec out of the Immob on a */Storm, since Storm add good damage in later levels.

This^

Is a good point.  My main Controllers on HC are Plant/Cold, Ill/Traps and Earth/Storm and the extra damage for a single-target immobilize is dubious for the most part 

[bustacap]

Someone in an older thread show a list of primaries and the DPA of the ST immobilize. I think fire and plant top the DPA with everything else worse dpa. They are long enough duration out of the box on controllers. 

 

I don't know why every plant build skips it in all the builds I've ever seen. 

 

My fire/dark does fine with apoc 5 piece in it. If out your pool selections and don't have a blast (or super procable secondary power) or your EPP doesn't have a ST power sure get it. It definably serviceable and lets you solo AVs if your not illusion. 

 

In Grav it has -kb in it. 

[Uun]

7 hours ago, bustacap said:

In Grav it has -kb in it. 

The Gravity immobilizes do NOT have -kb (the holds do).

[Maxzero]

 

Also for ST Immo's not only does it setup Containment well for AV targets its also far less of DPS loss. You have to use it less often and typically does more damage with a lower animation time then AoE Immo.

 

I think switching my Plant/Dark ST rotation from 3 attacks +Roots to 2 attacks + Entangle was like a ~70 DPS increase.