Hat hair

[midnox]

Hats need an option to be bald and wearing a hat. And the hair color on the Classic Steampunk hats needs to be adjustable.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

6 hours ago, midnox said:

"Hats need options"

 

Fixed it for you.  

Seriously though, hats need help. The hair options on most make you look like an unkempt murder hobo.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Dona Eis Requiem

[SwitchFade]

Yes vote on more costume options

[gameboy1234]

On 10/5/2023 at 3:19 AM, Dona Eis Requiem said:

Seriously though, hats need help. The hair options on most make you look like an unkempt murder hobo.

 

I'd like to see hats separated from the hair underneath, then added to as many different hair styles as possible.  The hat can sit on top of the hair, kind of like Sunglasses Up High option (Head, Detail 1) currently does.  But I realize that even a "simple" change like this could involve a lot of work.

 

[Rudra]

49 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

I'd like to see hats separated from the hair underneath, then added to as many different hair styles as possible.  The hat can sit on top of the hair, kind of like Sunglasses Up High option (Head, Detail 1) currently does.  But I realize that even a "simple" change like this could involve a lot of work.

 

If I remember correctly, hats are made with their specific hair already attached because trying to make them an add-on detail like the glasses results in severe and grotesque clipping between the various hat and hair options.

[kelika2]

In final fantasy 14 the viera race has a weird tech limitation where their hair and ears ARE mechanically hats.

So with that said, hair and hats are a single piece in this game.  cant have the train conductor hat and long glam hair.

 

So, I THINK, to do what I think you want all hats would have to become "Detail 1/2" and then clipping ahoy

[Dona Eis Requiem]

Yeah, there's not really an "easy fix" option because of the character model limits, I imagine.

My approach (if I knew anything about character modeling) would to leave the existing hair (short option)

and add a second, longer, more cleaned up hairstyle (long option). 

The "long" would probably end up being medium-length because of clipping but I'd take it.

[Frozen Burn]

My issues with hats is that most (especially for females), you are bald underneath.  Even if it's just a little, all hats need a hair option.  🙂  

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

If I remember correctly, hats are made with their specific hair already attached because trying to make them an add-on detail like the glasses results in severe and grotesque clipping between the various hat and hair options.

 

No clipping issue with a hat with "no hair" option.

[UltraAlt]

34 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

My issues with hats is that most (especially for females), you are bald underneath.  Even if it's just a little, all hats need a hair option.  🙂  

 

[gameboy1234]

5 hours ago, Dona Eis Requiem said:

My approach (if I knew anything about character modeling) would to leave the existing hair (short option)

 

I think what I would do is try to supply some code to do it.  Separate the hats, then for each hat have it clip and remove everything in the hair above the hat.  This would remove the most obvious problems with clipping.  Then a developer goes through the list manually once and checks off those that are "good enough," and disables the combinations that are still too wonky.  The process could be run once as a batch offline, so there's no runtime overhead.  A bit of logic would have to be added to select the alternate version of "hat hair" for each hat and hair combination (should be just a look-up table).  But I honestly don't know for sure how much effort that would take or if it would truly produce useful results.

 

(Boolean operations on meshes -- "subtracting" the hat and everything above it -- are fairly well understood.  I haven't used libraries like PyMesh before, but it's a standard tool to do this sort of work.  A developer wouldn't have to invent the whole thing from scratch.  I wouldn't be against trying to do some work on it myself, but I think the dev team has some restrictions placed on them by NC Soft regarding external developers, and I don't know if this sort of thing would fall within what they're allowed to do.)

 

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

I think what I would do is try to supply some code to do it.  Separate the hats, then for each hat have it clip and remove everything in the hair above the hat.  This would remove the most obvious problems with clipping.  Then a developer goes through the list manually once and checks off those that are "good enough," and disables the combinations that are still too wonky.  The process could be run once as a batch offline, so there's no runtime overhead.  A bit of logic would have to be added to select the alternate version of "hat hair" for each hat and hair combination (should be just a look-up table).  But I honestly don't know for sure how much effort that would take or if it would truly produce useful results.

 

(Boolean operations on meshes -- "subtracting" the hat and everything above it -- are fairly well understood.  I haven't used libraries like PyMesh before, but it's a standard tool to do this sort of work.  A developer wouldn't have to invent the whole thing from scratch.  I wouldn't be against trying to do some work on it myself, but I think the dev team has some restrictions placed on them by NC Soft regarding external developers, and I don't know if this sort of thing would fall within what they're allowed to do.)

 

I may be wrong, it's been a while since I worked on any 3D modeling, but I'm fairly certain you're not going to fix it by adding a bit of code to try to clip the models. You fix it with models. And for the models to work, for all the hats to work with the hair options, you would need to take all the hair models and modify/create new ones that worked for the hat. For every hat in the game.

 

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

If I remember correctly, hats are made with their specific hair already attached because trying to make them an add-on detail like the glasses results in severe and grotesque clipping between the various hat and hair options.

 

No clipping issue with a hat with "no hair" option.

Note I didn't say between all the hat and hair options. Bald obviously works because there is no model clipping. I believe there are other hair options that also avoid the clipping, at least with specific hats, but I'm not sure. The point of my comment is that having a hair model, which bald lacks, and a separate hat model, will typically result in severe/grotesque clipping. The other option of which, in order to maintain separate pieces, required the hat to sit on top of the hair instead of on top of the head. And since the models are assigned a specific elevation/location on the character model, you still wind up with the hat either floating above the head and hair, or clipping through the hair, depending on the chosen hair and hat model. So the hats are instead set pieces with their specifically assigned hair so that it would fit the character.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove double "model".

[UltraAlt]

16 hours ago, Rudra said:

The point of my comment is that having a hair model, which bald lacks, and a separate hat model, will typically result in severe/grotesque clipping.

 

I don't disagree with your statement, but ...

 

On 10/4/2023 at 11:57 PM, midnox said:

Hats need an option to be bald and wearing a hat.

 

My point is in line with the original post that a bald option for hats should be available.

 

I think it should be an easy graphical fix. Just remove the hair part from the already existing hat model.

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

23 hours ago, Rudra said:

The point of my comment is that having a hair model, which bald lacks, and a separate hat model, will typically result in severe/grotesque clipping.

 

I don't disagree with your statement, but ...

 

On 10/4/2023 at 9:57 PM, midnox said:

Hats need an option to be bald and wearing a hat.

 

My point is in line with the original post that a bald option for hats should be available.

 

I think it should be an easy graphical fix. Just remove the hair part from the already existing hat model.

That's fair, though I wasn't specifically addressing the OP itself and was instead addressing responses in the thread.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 10/4/2023 at 11:57 PM, midnox said:

Hats need an option to be bald and wearing a hat. And the hair color on the Classic Steampunk hats needs to be adjustable.

 

And fat.  Bald and fat and wearing a hat.

[midnox]

Part of what I'd like to see is the Classic Steampunk hats have the same option as other hats where the hair color is linked to part of the hat, and can be changed. Right now it's a set color regardless of what color the hat is.

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, midnox said:

Part of what I'd like to see is the Classic Steampunk hats have the same option as other hats where the hair color is linked to part of the hat, and can be changed. Right now it's a set color regardless of what color the hat is.

As things stand, they can't. Those hats already make use of the two colors we can use on the hat itself. To make the hair color also changeable requires that hat to be able to use a third color, which the game apparently cannot handle. However, what could be done, is the creation of alternate Classic Steampunk hats that have the hat band's color non-changeable, while making the hair color changeable.

[Techwright]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:57 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Bald and fat and wearing a hat.

 

Is that yous, Dr. Seuss?