Looking for a math nerd (Siphon Life as Regen)

[Story Archer]

I'm curious what a consistent application of Siphon Life might look like in terms of equivalent Regen, operating with the understanding that Regen outside of combat really isn't that important for most melee types. I'd like to be able to compare it to something like Rise to the Challenge (which also doesn't provide healing outside of combat). So something like Siphon Life is equivalent to XXX% Regen using the parameters below.

 

Basic framework - first off, I'm assuming that the heal is based off of some kind of percentage of a toon's health (as is Regen) and that it functions similarly across all AT's. That might be wrong, but hopefully not for the purposes of what I'm trying to figure out. So let's assume that:

• AT is at base hit points only.
• Siphon Life is not slotted for any additional healing.
• There are no additional ancillary healing bonuses or effects in place.
• Siphon Life is being used as part of a basic attack chain that allows it to reliably hit once every 10 seconds (or 6 times per minute).

 

Hopefully this is something that can be reasonably determined. If not then just tell me to piss off and I'll find some other random, esoteric aspect of the game to become preoccupied with.

 

TIA!

 

 

[Snarky]

I do not know the numbers. I have used siphon life a lot, across archetypes, mostly Brutes. Paired almost always with Dark or Invul.  

 

The feel is real.  I enhance this as an attack only.  No extra heal.  When used as part of your attack chain it provides a noticeable improvement versus everything except massive spike damage.  For that you need the "oh crap buttons"Dark Regeneration or Dull Pain or some such, possibly also eating some skittles if the situation persists or also hitting Rune of Protection or some such.

 

But in normal play this power works hard.  Especially noticeable at low levels before enhancement sets flush out or all powers are not yet in.  A real gem.  Hits hard and heals you a nice bit.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

would be neat if there was an alternate animation for it,

something like.............

 

 

[Luminara]

Heal divided by cycle time = HP/s.

 

Heal is obvious.

 

Cycle time is activation time (2.112) plus recharge time.

 

Easy peasy dirty sleazy.

[Marshal_General]

I usually throw a four piece Kinetic Combat, a Performance Shifter Proc and the heal for a little extra movement depending on the build.

[ZemX]

17 hours ago, Luminara said:

Heal divided by cycle time = HP/s.

 

Heal is easy.  Regeneration?  Who even knows how that works?  The only thing we can all agree on is that it must be nerfed in the next patch.

[Story Archer]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

I do not know the numbers. I have used siphon life a lot, across archetypes, mostly Brutes. Paired almost always with Dark or Invul.  

 

The feel is real.  I enhance this as an attack only.  No extra heal.  When used as part of your attack chain it provides a noticeable improvement versus everything except massive spike damage.  For that you need the "oh crap buttons"Dark Regeneration or Dull Pain or some such, possibly also eating some skittles if the situation persists or also hitting Rune of Protection or some such.

 

But in normal play this power works hard.  Especially noticeable at low levels before enhancement sets flush out or all powers are not yet in.  A real gem.  Hits hard and heals you a nice bit.

 

Is it a good candidate for the Preventive Medicine +Absorb proc? As part of a steady attack chain it would seem to be an ideal fit?

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Story Archer said:

 

Is it a good candidate for the Preventive Medicine +Absorb proc? As part of a steady attack chain it would seem to be an ideal fit?

Preventive Medicine procs the same no matter where you put it IIRC.

[Story Archer]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

Heal is easy.  Regeneration?  Who even knows how that works?  The only thing we can all agree on is that it must be nerfed in the next patch.

 

Well, if I can figure out what the percentage of a character's Health regenerates in one minute (base only, without Health) and then figure out what percentage of a character's health an unslotted Siphon Life would heal if it successfully lands every 10 seconds (or 6x per minute), it would seem to be a somewhat direct comparison...

 

Killer avi image, btw. I find that I, too, am better at doings than at understandings. 🙂

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Story Archer

[Story Archer]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

Preventive Medicine procs the same no matter where you put it IIRC.

 

So if I put it in Siphon Life it would go off whether I used the ability or not?

[Snarky]

1 minute ago, Story Archer said:

 

Is it a good candidate for the Preventive Medicine +Absorb proc? As part of a steady attack chain it would seem to be an ideal fit?

Honestly the rare times I enhance this for anything besides damage I put a Theft of Endurance +End proc in it.  Generally at low levels and take it out once the end bar stabilizes as the build matures.  Once in a great while I might leave it in, prob not in a finished build though.

 

Generally this is a good heal sustain on top of the other MAJOR tricks any armor set/build has.  Enhance it as an attack.  It is a great attack.

[arcane]

7 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

 

So if I put it in Siphon Life it would go off whether I used the ability or not?

Yes. I frequently put it in a power that I don’t even keep in my tray, like O2 Boost or Alkaloid.

[ZemX]

37 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

Well, if I can figure out what the percentage of a character's Health regenerates in one minute (base only, without Health) and then figure out what percentage of a character's health an unslotted Siphon Life would heal if it successfully lands every 10 seconds (or 6x per minute), it would seem to be a somewhat direct comparison...

 

Kidding aside... there's no one answer to your question.   You can't say Siphon Life = x% Regen.

 

It can be expressed as a more complicated equation than that one, I suppose, but it involves at least the following variables:

• AT melee self-heal modifier.
• Current max hit points.
• Recharge and healing enhancement in Siphon.
• Global heal and recharge enhancement/bonuses.
• Global regen %.

 

Here is a "how it works" link for health regeneration:

 

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

You can't say Siphon Life = x% Regen.

 

On second thought... let's nerd this up some more, actually.  Because after a bit more avoiding the work I'm actually paid for, I've come to this conclusion at least.

 

Siphon Life = +100% regen.

 

How?  I happened to notice that the melee self-heal modifier for each AT seems to be set to 1/10 of the AT's base hit points.  In other words, Siphon Life, being a scale 1.0 self heal, is actually healing each AT that can use it for 10% of their base hit points, casts in 2 seconds (ish) and recharges in 10 seconds.  Base regen heals 5% of current max hitpoints, every 12 seconds.  So in 12 seconds, Siphon Life heals for twice what base regen does, assuming no enhancements anywhere in your build. Voila!  ... Viola?

 

Siphon Life will then scale upward in effectiveness with healing and/or recharge enhancement while Regen scales upward with regen and hit point enhancement.  e.g. If Siphon Life is enhanced only for heal to the E.D. limit and you have no recharge bonus, you would need roughly +300% regen to equal it (4x base regen) OR +100% regen and twice your base hit points.

 

Either that or I'm high on punch from the office Halloween party. 🤪

[Snarky]

9 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

On second thought... let's nerd this up some more, actually.  Because after a bit more avoiding the work I'm actually paid for, I've come to this conclusion at least.

 

Siphon Life = +100% regen.

 

How?  I happened to notice that the melee self-heal modifier for each AT seems to be set to 1/10 of the AT's base hit points.  In other words, Siphon Life, being a scale 1.0 self heal, is actually healing each AT that can use it for 10% of their base hit points, casts in 2 seconds (ish) and recharges in 10 seconds.  Base regen heals 5% of current max hitpoints, every 12 seconds.  So in 12 seconds, Siphon Life heals for twice what base regen does, assuming no enhancements anywhere in your build. Voila!  ... Viola?

 

Siphon Life will then scale upward in effectiveness with healing and/or recharge enhancement while Regen scales upward with regen and hit point enhancement.  e.g. If Siphon Life is enhanced only for heal to the E.D. limit and you have no recharge bonus, you would need roughly +300% regen to equal it (4x base regen) OR +100% regen and twice your base hit points.

 

Either that or I'm high on punch from the office Halloween party. 🤪

it is not what is in the punch....it is who

[roleki]

If you think of Healing as just a huge regeneration burst to a set number, it's pretty easy to calculate the quasi-effective regen rate from powers and procs that heal.  

 

Take the Power Transfer, Chance to Heal proc on a Blaster with 1205 HP.  The proc hits approximately 3x/minute for 60HP each activation; 60HP x3 activations every 60s = 180, 180/60s = 3.0HP/s 3.0/1205 HP = 0.0025  'regen' rate.  

 

That's oversimplifying things a tad, because there's 'luck' involved, but it's not a bad way to quantify the impact Healing powers/procs have on survival stats.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

it is not what is in the punch....it is who

 

Whoever it was, they weren't very smart because... I was wrong!! 😈

 

When I said that Siphon Life = +100% regen, I was forgetting that you always have base regen.  Someone spamming Siphon Life is gaining both base regen of 5% per 12s AND Siphon Life's 10% per 12s.   So apples to apples, someone spamming Siphon Life is restoring health three times as fast as the same person who is NOT spamming Siphon Life. 

 

Hence Siphon Life on auto is equivalent to adding +200% regen buff (not +100% as I stated earlier).  Again, at least until we start tossing in all kinds of enhancements and set bonuses... at which point I am adding MYSELF to the punch bowl, because I am not a big enough math nerd for that!

[shortguy on indom]

Thinking because its an attack power, if performs a tohit check first.

If you have enough 'chancetohit'.......then ballpark figures apply below.

Will vary with AT and by the amount of total recharge you have as stated b4.

 

******erased previous reply****

Hope to address your parameters this time.  Sorry I went on a tangent.

 

For some ATs:  Siphon gives +120HP per application.

Siphon can stack up to three times.  The stack adds another +33% to the 120HP.

(if I understand this correctly, i could not find much info on stacking)....

Other than its cumulative when overlapped.

The following has not been game tested: So this may or may not be wrong:

For some ATs, Siphon gives about +120HP per application and can stack 2 more times.  Stacks give a bonus +33% to the 120HP.

See link: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=stalker_melee.dark_melee.siphon_life&at=stalker

note: 'cycle time' => not sure what its called but thats what i'm calling it. lol

Base power 'cycle time' = base recharge time + arcanatime, = 10 sec + 2.2112 sec = 12.2112 sec.

60sec/12.2112sec = 4.95 times a minute.

4.95 rounds down to 4... because there was not enough time to activate the 5th time.

so,
4 * 120HP = 480HP/min.

if recharge time is reduced to less than 10 seconds, I believe it then starts to stack.

here the recharge time is reduced from 10 sec. to 7.888 seconds....
New 'cycle time' = 7.888 + 2.112 = 10 sec.

<10sec + <10sec + <10sec then repeat
(1st hit + stack bonus + stack bonus) then repeat      
    = 120HP + 120HP*(1.33) + 120HP*(1.33) + 120 + 120*(1.33) + 120*(1.33)
    = 120 + 159.6 + 159.6 + 120 + 159.6 + 159.6
    = 878.4HP/minute

For other ATs it does not stack at all, but gives a larger +HP per hit.

See link:  https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=tanker_melee.dark_melee.siphon_life&at=tanker

 

So, for base 'cycle time' of 12.112 sec.
60/12.112 = 4.95, rounded down to 4
= 4 * 187HP
= 748HP/minute

 

if 'cycle time' is reduced by a faster recharge then:

= (60sec) / ('cycle time' sec.) = xxxx times per minute round down to whole number.
= 187HP * xxxx
= HP/min.

 

        

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by shortguy on indom
erased my previous post. in no way did it even address your parameters.