I Have Discovered my Favourite Build!

[EiricEPadraig]

I have fallen in love with the Pistols/Ninjitsu combination! It is fast-paced with killer animations, the stealth/gun-fu combos are ridiculously awesome, and I don't even need a Travel power thanks to the stealth/speed power plus two slots in the Speed and Jump Fitness pool.

 

How I have not found this before after 23 alts?!

 

Ah. I love this game.

[Force Redux]

I have fallen in love with the Pistols/Ninjitsu combination! It is fast-paced with killer animations, the stealth/gun-fu combos are ridiculously awesome, and I don't even need a Travel power thanks to the stealth/speed power plus two slots in the Speed and Jump Fitness pool.

 

How I have not found this before after 23 alts?!

 

Ah. I love this game.

 

The joy of finding another favorite build in the game is one of the highlights of play... As well as it's curse...! Lol... Darn alts!

[XaoGarrent]

I honestly don't know how you put up with the low damage. I really wanted to try that combination, but I took one look at the numbers and just went "Oof."

[EggKookoo]

What is this "favorite build" idea of which you speak?

[Zepp]

This is a fun combo, I created a toon that looks like John Woo with this build...

[Force Redux]

I honestly don't know how you put up with the low damage. I really wanted to try that combination, but I took one look at the numbers and just went "Oof."

 

Most Sentinel builds (with the exception of Fire/, /Fire or /Bio) will have lower damage as a tradeoff for safety. If you can work with it until you start to slot up and IO, and then Incarnate, you'll get better results and damage will be better. But its consistent damage that doesn't worry about faceplanting, so definitely not the high-risk high-reward Blaster lifestyle.

 

Take this with a grain of salt, hwoever, as I play and enjoy Defenders (even solo), so my tolerance for lower damage is higher than most.

[EiricEPadraig]

 

Most Sentinel builds (with the exception of Fire/, /Fire or /Bio) will have lower damage as a tradeoff for safety. If you can work with it until you start to slot up and IO, and then Incarnate, you'll get better results and damage will be better. But its consistent damage that doesn't worry about faceplanting, so definitely not the high-risk high-reward Blaster lifestyle.

 

 

Very much this.

[Clave Dark 5]

I honestly don't know how you put up with the low damage. I really wanted to try that combination, but I took one look at the numbers and just went "Oof."

  Fun trumps numbers.

[EggKookoo]

Fun trumps numbers.

 

As a MA/SR main, I endorse this attitude 100%.

[Daihok]

Is the shinobi skill in the /ninja also a stealth? Really dont say on pines. Kinda vague

[XaoGarrent]

Take this with a grain of salt, hwoever, as I play and enjoy Defenders (even solo), so my tolerance for lower damage is higher than most.

This right here is a problem. We shouldn't even be invoking Defenders in this conversation because not only are they the most redundant thing in the game damage wise, they exist entirely at an extreme towards team support, outdone by Corruptors in other regards- Both of which can make your *whole team* safe. If we're starting this far on the backfoot, that alone is worth having a thonk over.

 

Sentinels pay too much in damage for the safety they get, and they add very little to a team (with exceptions, of course, but that's like saying defenders do good damage because /kin exists, and trust me, we don't wanna be invoking /kin here). Add on a set with commonly and often highly resisted damage and a lack of *any* damage boosting clickie and you've got a real stinker.

 

If you find that kind of thing fun, well... I don't, but I wont kinkshame your masochism, don't worry.

[justicebeliever]

Take this with a grain of salt, hwoever, as I play and enjoy Defenders (even solo), so my tolerance for lower damage is higher than most.

This right here is a problem. We shouldn't even be invoking Defenders in this conversation because not only are they the most redundant thing in the game damage wise, they exist entirely at an extreme towards team support, outdone by Corruptors in other regards- Both of which can make your *whole team* safe. If we're starting this far on the backfoot, that alone is worth having a thonk over.

 

...

 

If you find that kind of thing fun, well... I don't, but I wont kinkshame your masochism, don't worry.

 

But...

 

Fun trumps numbers.

 

This is totally my whole motto to the game. 

[XaoGarrent]

This is totally my whole motto to the game.

I think you missed the implied point. Numbers are one of a number of causal factors in what makes something fun.

 

They're the *only* causal factor, depending on how you look at it. All things exist in a measurable state. Colors exist on a scale that can be represented numerically, animation times and recharges are counted in seconds, resources and meters come in and are replenished in a finite quantities, etc.

 

You could really just boil that down and say that fun is logically representable. As in, you don't even need numbers, what causes people to experience "fun" can be narrowed down to a fundamentally knowable state that one can simply measure with their senses. You can even condition people into *being* part of the knowable state, hence my mention of masochism.

 

"Fun trumps all" as a response to numbers is not only a gross simplification, and an empty platitude... It's outright fallacious reasoning and creates a broken form of circular logic, which is utterly useless when trying to make informed decisions. You do realize that when you're creating a game you have to make objective determinations on things like fun, right? You do realize failing to do this is more or less paramount to creating a giant game of Calvin Ball, correct?

[justicebeliever]

This is totally my whole motto to the game.

I think you missed the implied point. Numbers are one of a number of causal factors in what makes something fun.

 

They're the *only* causal factor, depending on how you look at it. All things exist in a measurable state. Colors exist on a scale that can be represented numerically, animation times and recharges are counted in seconds, resources and meters come in and are replenished in a finite quantities, etc.

 

You could really just boil that down and say that fun is logically representable. As in, you don't even need numbers, what causes people to experience "fun" can be narrowed down to a fundamentally knowable state that one can simply measure with their senses. You can even condition people into *being* part of the knowable state, hence my mention of masochism.

 

"Fun trumps all" as a response to numbers is not only a gross simplification, and an empty platitude... It's outright fallacious reasoning and creates a broken form of circular logic, which is utterly useless when trying to make informed decisions. You do realize that when you're creating a game you have to make objective determinations on things like fun, right? You do realize failing to do this is more or less paramount to creating a giant game of Calvin Ball, correct?

 

If fun was entirely quantifiable, then everyone would find the same things fun.  Fun is at it's core similar to artistic expression - you take the mechanics of things, and combine them in a way that causes delight or fails to generate that same response.

 

What's great about this game is people can have fun in different ways.  For some (like me) it's pretty abstract.  I'm a superhero fighting villains.  For others it's a chance to have a more immersive experience in Role Play, for others it's the team dynamics, and for others it is the numbers.  But while the mechanics of the game incorporate all of this, what sparks fun is different for everyone.

 

It may be that all things exist in a measurable state, but since not all things can yet be quantifiably measured it would be a fallacy to state that it is true.  I've yet to see a "fun" scale that objectively measures fun in a repeatable, predictive fashion, so at this point it is not measurable.

 

Some people don't even find CoH fun at all.

 

And perhaps there is a certain "fun" that you get out of trying to poke holes in what someone else enjoys.  Of course it's a game.  Of course it has to have mechanics and rules.  It's all 1's and 0's my good sir.  And of course game designers have to code the mechanics based on what they think will appeal to the broadest swath of their target audience.  So please don't be condescending.

 

I'm quite certain that with Cryptic, and then NCSoft, even SCoRE, and now Homecoming, that any key changes are unit tested, not only against the code, but is it going to "feel" fun.  Then the changes are integration tested, and beta tested.  And I'm feeling pretty confident that if everyone said "Meh" then they would revisit their objective assumptions.

 

So while fun is based on top (on top = trump) of the numbers, the numbers themselves aren't what is fun.  What is fun is then left to the end user to decide for himself.  So please, don't demean, belittle, or condescend to people who might find enjoyment from something that you don't just because they aren't using the same reasoning as you to determine their enjoyment

[XaoGarrent]

 

If fun was entirely quantifiable, then everyone would find the same things fun.  Fun is at it's core similar to artistic expression - you take the mechanics of things, and combine them in a way that causes delight or fails to generate that same response.

You are not factoring in the person having the experience as part of the total picture. You're only describing one half of the equation, and you're getting bad results because of this.

 

I deal with post-modernists on a regular basis, dude. I'm not going to miss something this basic, it's a mistake they make CONSTANTLY because they have absolutely no respect for a reality existing independent of their perception. This includes, most specifically, their existence, as exists separate from their own perception.

[HelenCarnate]

My old Rad/Sonic defender would argue about defenders having low damage. She could take down pylons faster than most scrappers.

 

But yes there is a trade off for being durable with mez protection and having range.  If it is fun for you that is all that matters.

[justicebeliever]

 

If fun was entirely quantifiable, then everyone would find the same things fun.  Fun is at it's core similar to artistic expression - you take the mechanics of things, and combine them in a way that causes delight or fails to generate that same response.

You are not factoring in the person having the experience as part of the total picture. You're only describing one half of the equation, and you're getting bad results because of this.

 

I deal with post-modernists on a regular basis, dude. I'm not going to miss something this basic, it's a mistake they make CONSTANTLY because they have absolutely no respect for a reality existing independent of their perception. This includes, most specifically, their existence, as exists separate from their own perception.

 

But life experiences aren't measurable either...so I'm unclear as to your point.

 

And we all deal with post-modernists on a regular basis unless you are in a retirement home.  I'm 47 and I'm a post-modernist.  This is the post-modern era.

 

And I'm not going to debate reality/perception on this thread, since that is way, way off topic, but I am also certain that the post-modern creators/stewards of CoH do not regularly have these debates either when designing game mechanics, so any debate on the topic would be irrelevant to this discussion, the OP's favorite build or the relationship between fun and numbers.

[Force Redux]

Is the shinobi skill in the /ninja also a stealth? Really dont say on pines. Kinda vague

Yes it's stealth :)

[Force Redux]

Take this with a grain of salt, hwoever, as I play and enjoy Defenders (even solo), so my tolerance for lower damage is higher than most.

If you find that kind of thing fun, well... I don't, but I wont kinkshame your masochism, don't worry.

 

In lampshading my own tolerance for slower-but-safer I wasn't inviting you to demonstrate snark. I'm putting my opinions into a frame of reference. No need to be condescending.

[XaoGarrent]

I'm 47 and I'm a post-modernist.  This is the post-modern era.

We live in an era of delusion, I'm fully aware of this, yes. I am one of many people fighting against this, and I think I've made my point VERY well here.

[Force Redux]

XaoGarrent, you're tilting at windmills on these forums.

[justicebeliever]

We live in an era of delusion, I'm fully aware of this, yes. I am one of many people fighting against this, and I think I've made my point VERY well here.

 

You are welcome to think that, it is after all an era of delusion.

[XaoGarrent]

You are welcome to think that, it is after all an era of delusion.

Thanks for proving my point. <3

[justicebeliever]

You are welcome to think that, it is after all an era of delusion.

Thanks for proving my point. <3

 

Oh...you’ve definitely proven delusion.  I think I’m done posting on this, it’s pretty off-topic.  Have fun!  Bye-Bye

[Widower]

Friends, be civil to each other.