Scrapper APP: Pistol Mastery

[biostem]

I'd love to be able to round out my scrappers with some good old small arms.  To that end, I propose the "Pistol Mastery" Ancillary Power Pool:

 

1. Dual Wield

2. Suppressive Fire

3. Empty Clips

4. Swap Ammo*

5. Hail of Bullets

 

*For swap ammo, it would be really cool if it could also affect your primary powers.  If that's too complicated, perhaps it could do something like the toxins power from blaster's plant manipulation - granting 3 click powers that share a cooldown, granting a temporary bit of bonus damage of the appropriate type, (cold, toxic, fire, etc).  The pistol attacks would benefit from the different ammo type for the duration of that click power.  If not, maybe each of the mutually exclusive ammo type toggles could also grant a small tohit buff and have their end costs increased accordingly...

Edited December 14, 2023 by biostem

[Rudra]

30 minutes ago, biostem said:

*For swap ammo, it would be really cool if it could also affect your primary powers.  If that's too complicated, perhaps it could do something like the toxins power from blaster's plant manipulation - granting 3 click powers that share a cooldown, granting a temporary bit of bonus damage of the appropriate type, (cold, toxic, fire, etc).  If not, maybe each of the mutually exclusive ammo type toggles could also grant a small tohit buff and have their end costs increased accordingly...

I don't think you're going to get Swap Ammo from one set to affect any powers from another set.

 

30 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'd love to be able to round out my scrappers with some good old small arms. 

I'm against this. Make it also available to Tankers, Stalkers, and Brutes? And then I will be in favor.

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I don't think you're going to get Swap Ammo from one set to affect any powers from another set.

Right, which is why I suggested drawing from the example of toxins by having it grant 3 click powers, all sharing the same cooldown, that grants some temporary additional damage of the appropriate type.  I edited my OP after you replied to say that the pistol attacks themselves would benefit from the other ammo type for the duration of those click powers.

 

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Make it also available to Tankers, Stalkers, and Brutes? And then I will be in favor.

Sounds good to me.

Edited December 14, 2023 by biostem

[Saiyajinzoningen]

This is extremely OP

i love it 😁

[Uun]

I would do Bullet Rain instead of Empty Clips and both Bullet Rain and Hail of Bullets would have to be the Sentinel versions.

[Greycat]

Yeah, wouldn't hold my breath on swap ammo affecting primary/secondary powers.

 

Also, honestly... I'd hope if they did add something like this (as I do have some melee folks that use temp power pistols because they would...) they gave us non-silly-flippy animations. Just pull out a pistol if it's not already out, aim, bang. (And then transferred them back to the main set.)

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

Also, honestly... I'd hope if they did add something like this (as I do have some melee folks that use temp power pistols because they would...) they gave us non-silly-flippy animations. Just pull out a pistol if it's not already out, aim, bang. (And then transferred them back to the main set.)

Yes! Definitely Please! No circus act shooting for the set. (And maybe even give us non-circus act shooting for the Dual Pistols set? Please?) (Edit: Just steal the animations from the Malta Gunslingers and the Thugs... uhm... thugs....)

Edited December 14, 2023 by Rudra

[BrandX]

I want the Dual Pistol animations!  

Bullet Rain instead of Empty Clips for TAOE.  Like Fire Ball.

I'd put in a passive +ToHit Power instead of Swap Ammo.

Suppressive Fire I'd give it cold rounds and make it Hold.

 

 

[A.I.D.A.]

Powercust. Then the boring practicality chuds can have their silly single pistol cop stance, and the fun people can do equilibrium gun-kata and have fun with the game.

 

Another idea:

1.) Dual Wield
2.) Suppressive Fire
3.) Tough
4.) Weave
5.) Empty Clips

Clarifications: Normal pool, rather than ancillary. Mutually exclusive with Fighting, cannot learn powers from one if you have a power from the other. Attacks in this pool synergize with each other if you learn all three, and have comparable damage and effects to Boxing, Kick, and Cross Punch.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by A.I.D.A.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, A.I.D.A. said:

Powercust. Then the boring practicality chuds can have their silly single pistol cop stance, and the fun people can do equilibrium gun-kata and have fun with the game.

Because obviously only the people that enjoy power sets working the way you like are having fun with the game? How is it that you managed to make a statement I should be in agreement with into something I can't agree with? (Or rather, why did you have to turn a comment I would agree with into an insult to those that don't enjoy the same things you do?)

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, A.I.D.A. said:

Another idea:

1.) Dual Wield
2.) Suppressive Fire
3.) Tough
4.) Weave
5.) Empty Clips

Clarifications: Normal pool, rather than ancillary. Mutually exclusive with Fighting, cannot learn powers from one if you have a power from the other.

I disagree with this alteration. Fighting pool has Tough and Weave. There doesn't need to be and there shouldn't be a different power pool that grants the same powers. Travel powers are one thing, but not other powers like Tough and Weave.

[Sancerre]

cool concept but swap ammo isnt happening... also definitely no way for a t9 nuke to be in there unless it was SUBSTANTIALLY nerfed.  also as others have noted it should probably just follow, generally, for Melee ATs (tanker/brute/stalker).

 

most epic/patron pools are not hard focused on porting over 1 power set particularly... for example blaze mastery has melt armor and fireball.  i would say instead of trying to hard force only dual pistol skills, try to mesh it more with like Martial combat as it mostly fits a parallel concept of gun kata.  Burst of Speed specifically would be awesome to port over to melee ATs in the epic/patron pools. 

 

that in mind as a concept -- i would change it around a little more like so:

1. Dual Wield

2. Suppressive Fire / Executioner's Shot (pick one... Executioner's shot probably offers too much utility with -defense and KD slotting, but it is DP's 'snipe' equivalent)

3. Bullet Rain

4. Inner Will (self heal clicky, can adjust parameters of it compared to base version)

5. Burst of Speed

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Sancerre said:

4. Inner Will (self heal clicky, can adjust parameters of it compared to base version)

5. Burst of Speed

I think these are inappropriate for a melee set APP. Inner Will is primarily mez protection, which is redundant on a melee set. The heal is just icing and is very small, especially for a power with a 3 minute recharge. Burst of Speed is a teleport + melee AoE attack. Any melee set can achieve the same result with Combat Teleport followed by a PBAoE attack.

 

Melee set APPs/PPPs consist almost exclusively of ranged attacks (ST, AoE, snipe, hold, immobilize), with a few utility and debuff powers thrown in. Smoke Grenade, Seeker Drones and/or Taser (if you're not including Suppressive Fire) would be more appropriate.

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, Sancerre said:

cool concept but swap ammo isnt happening... also definitely no way for a t9 nuke to be in there unless it was SUBSTANTIALLY nerfed.  also as others have noted it should probably just follow, generally, for Melee ATs (tanker/brute/stalker).

 

most epic/patron pools are not hard focused on porting over 1 power set particularly... for example blaze mastery has melt armor and fireball.  i would say instead of trying to hard force only dual pistol skills, try to mesh it more with like Martial combat as it mostly fits a parallel concept of gun kata.  Burst of Speed specifically would be awesome to port over to melee ATs in the epic/patron pools. 

 

that in mind as a concept -- i would change it around a little more like so:

1. Dual Wield

2. Suppressive Fire / Executioner's Shot (pick one... Executioner's shot probably offers too much utility with -defense and KD slotting, but it is DP's 'snipe' equivalent)

3. Bullet Rain

4. Inner Will (self heal clicky, can adjust parameters of it compared to base version)

5. Burst of Speed

While I'm sure it would be Nuke level, no reason they can't use it at lower damage.

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Uun said:

I think these are inappropriate for a melee set APP. Inner Will is primarily mez protection, which is redundant on a melee set. The heal is just icing and is very small, especially for a power with a 3 minute recharge. Burst of Speed is a teleport + melee AoE attack. Any melee set can achieve the same result with Combat Teleport followed by a PBAoE attack.

 

Melee set APPs/PPPs consist almost exclusively of ranged attacks (ST, AoE, snipe, hold, immobilize), with a few utility and debuff powers thrown in. Smoke Grenade, Seeker Drones and/or Taser (if you're not including Suppressive Fire) would be more appropriate.

So how about:

 

1) Pistols

2) Dual Wield

3) Executioner's Shot

4) Medical Hypo (Heal, affects self if enemy or nothing targeted, heals target if ally in melee range)

5) Deadly Shot (ST*, inflicts bleed effect [Lethal DoT] as secondary effect)

 

*- Attack may be a standard single attack, or maybe a single hit check that inflicts damage twice, or maybe even an attack that checks twice for different hits for applying damage.

 

(Sorry @biostem. Not trying to re-work your idea, just trying to address comments made including my own.)

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

4) Medical Hypo (Heal, affects self if enemy or nothing targeted, heals target if ally in melee range)

This doesn't really seem to fit the theme, otherwise the others seems fine.

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

4) Medical Hypo (Heal, affects self if enemy or nothing targeted, heals target if ally in melee range)

This doesn't really seem to fit the theme, otherwise the others seems fine.

Yeah... I was trying to think of a buff/debuff that would work being fired from a gun, including a pistol-fired grenade for like a concussion grenade, gas grenade, or even web grenade, but couldn't find anything I could reference that made sense. So I figured throw in a utility heal instead. I based that on a few video games and movies where the pistoleer also happened to have some form of first aid available. Most commonly a syringe that recovered them but sometimes an edible. So while it doesn't fit the theme you are presenting, it *could* work as part of the set.

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Yeah... I was trying to think of a buff/debuff that would work being fired from a gun, including a pistol-fired grenade for like a concussion grenade, gas grenade, or even web grenade, but couldn't find anything I could reference that made sense. So I figured throw in a utility heal instead. I based that on a few video games and movies where the pistoleer also happened to have some form of first aid available. Most commonly a syringe that recovered them but sometimes an edible. So while it doesn't fit the theme you are presenting, it *could* work as part of the set.

You could, quite amusingly, have a pistol attack where you target an ally to heal them.  You could handwave it anyway you want, and it'd be very funny to heal people with bullets!

[Sancerre]

6 hours ago, Uun said:

I think these are inappropriate for a melee set APP. Inner Will is primarily mez protection, which is redundant on a melee set. The heal is just icing and is very small, especially for a power with a 3 minute recharge. Burst of Speed is a teleport + melee AoE attack. Any melee set can achieve the same result with Combat Teleport followed by a PBAoE attack.

 

Melee set APPs/PPPs consist almost exclusively of ranged attacks (ST, AoE, snipe, hold, immobilize), with a few utility and debuff powers thrown in. Smoke Grenade, Seeker Drones and/or Taser (if you're not including Suppressive Fire) would be more appropriate.

 

inner will could help cover mez holes in various armor sets as needed (it is not permanent and i suggest modifying it so it is further away from perm)... terrorize & confuse especially.  is it appropriate?  idk -- is hibernate in leviathan mastery appropriate?  most people dont care cause hibernate kinda sucks.  i just didnt see much else appropriate to pull from aside from powers that are more ninja themed like throw sand.... which i guess is fine.... just maybe strange to think about shooting guns and throwing sand in the same pool.......

 

the burst of speed comments are very hot and cold there... first you make it sound like it is pointless cause people can just pick up combat teleport or speed of sound, but then it is also just not appropriate cause it is ultimately a pseudo-melee attack.  i think it provides an option to go into this patron pool for teleport attacks instead of 1 of your 4 power pools into experimentation or teleportation.  sure it ends up doing damage in melee but you can press the button from range (200 feet)... very opposite perspective difference.

 

anyways -- you bring up a similar point that i was getting at in the first place -- the epic/patron pools typically consist of items beyond just standard ranged attacks... so 5 dual pistol skills would also be inappropriate.   not sure i could agree with seeker drones if we need to follow 'appropriate' criteria... there is no other precedence of low cooldown pets in melee epic/patron pools.  smoke grenade and taser fit well enough, those could be fine.  i think surveillance (-def/res debuff) could be a fitting option as well.

[biostem]

A few thoughts:

 

Many melee-AT APPs add control powers, like a single target hold or a cone/AoE immobilize.  Take suppressive fire from dual pistols, drop the damage down to single hold levels, and give it a hold effect, (treat it like the cryo ammo version if that's simpler).  Take empty clips and call it something like "pin-down" and turn it into a cone immobilize, with the damage and recharge adjusted accordingly.  Add a targeting drone/focused accuracy-like power, (maybe call it sight-in or something appropriate).  You can then add bullet rain for the AoE damage power, and hail of bullets as the capstone power, (maybe lower the damage, keep the +def when using standard ammo, and perhaps even add a -res effect).

Edited December 16, 2023 by biostem

[BrandX]

9 hours ago, biostem said:

You could, quite amusingly, have a pistol attack where you target an ally to heal them.  You could handwave it anyway you want, and it'd be very funny to heal people with bullets!

 

Kurohime does it!  Magic bullets!