Early Blooming Primary/Secondary?

[Unclemarty]

I'm trying to come up with builds that do well on harder difficulty content at low levels.

Primaries and secondary power sets are not all equal. Some get important powers early and some get them later. For example, super strength gets two key powers, rage and foot stomp, quite late. 

What are some "early blooming" sets that get most of their important powers early, or even have skippable powers later on?

[Doomguide2005]

You looking for something to run primarily at low level then exemplar low level later?  Something like Claws/Regen should do very well at lower levels.  Plenty of endurance plus little downtime healing up and Claws has several solid attacks culminating with Spin.  Pretty much any mixed with Regen should do well at lower levels

[Ringo]

For Secondaries the ones that get the important parts of their kit by level 20 are:

 

Bio - Mez Protection at 4, Adaptation at 10, Self Heal at 16, Most Res and all Def toggles available

 

Dark:  Mez protection at 10, Self heal at 16, All Res Toggles, and Damage Aura

 

Rad:  Mez protection at 10, All Res toggles, Damage Aura+ at 16, Taunt Aura+ at 20

 

Regen:  +Regen, +Recovery, Self Heal at 4, Self +Max HP at 10, Mez Protection at 16

 

Shield: All Defense toggles, Mez Protection at 10, Taunt Aura+ at 16, extra Def when teaming at 20

 

 

 

[Ringo]

As far as Primaries, Claws is the only one that has all of its kit by level 12

 

The ones that have most of their kit by level 12 are:

 

Claws

Dual Blades

Ice Melee

Katana

Martial Arts

Spines

 Staff Fighting

Stone Melee

Street Justice

 

 

Added:  Of those Claws, Dual Blades, and Spines have zero damage mitigation

 

Katana, Martial Arts, and Staff have +Def

 

Ice Melee, Martial Arts, Staff, Stone Melee, and Street Justice have some kind of Knockdown or Stun

Edited December 29, 2023 by Ringo

[kelika2]

You might wanna consider tanker for this because the only game changing thing I can think of is getting Burn at 18(13).  my fire/staff tanker is one of my more played low level tankers just because of DoT stacking and guarded spin

[Ringo]

Okay so all that said, which Primaries with which Secondaries?  Well there's two answers to this depending on how you build for low level play: are you slotting SOs or generic IO enhancements?  Or are you slotting set IOs, ATOs, and Uniques for bonuses and procs?

 

Using only SOs or generic IOs:

 

Bio works well with everything.  Claws works best for the full attack chain plus Spin, and Ice Melee gives great mitigation with Ice Patch.  Use your Adaptations to manage endurance

 

Dark is an End Hog.  Ice Melee provides the most mitigation for the least endurance and also keeps mobs in your damage aura.  Stone is a possibilty as the attacks are slow but powerful, just prioritize slotting accuracy and endredux in each attack and hope you aren't stuck in an animation preventing you from using your Self Heal.  On just SOs, Dark is not very friendly though.

 

Rad has two auras to attract foes which makes for an attractive pairing with the PBAoEs of Claws, Dual Blades, and Spines.  As another all Resist armor the +Def powers aren't going to add much mitigation, but the Knockdowns and Disorients should help.  Ice Melee, Martial Arts, Staff, Stone, and Street Fighting should all work, but Rad has no Self Heal so you're going to need to prioritize damage to clear mobs fast before they kill you

 

Regen gives you that sweet +Recovery, allowing your quick attacking primaries go to work without much need for endredux.  Claws is king here, but Dual Blades and Street Justice aren't far behind.  Both your survival powers are clicks so stay away from getting caught in slower/longer animations like Spines, Staff, or Stone.  Once again, Ice Patch is reliable mitigation.

 

Shield is our only Defense based armor set here, so finally we can use those +def power primaries!  Unfortunately Katana and Staff can't be used with Shield defense so we're left with just Martial Arts.  Good news though, MA/SD works great together!  The bad news is Defense as a mitigation at low levels is very either/or - either the mobs wiff their attacks and never hit you, or you're dead.  While knockdown/stuns do help reduce the number of swings at you, using SOs on Shield defense at low levels is just a matter of time before RNG claims your head.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Other than what was mentioned:

 

Ninjitsu is quite strong by 16, with healthy positional def, stealth, mez click and End click by then. You do need to wait until 24 for KB resist but if you can fork over the inf for a Zephyr IO that will mostly do you until then.

 

Rad Emission has all of it's most important tools by 12 on a Defender. 20 on the rest.

 

Nearly all Control sets have their kit by 16 minus pets. Sets where people might skip or otherwise not miss the pets are Symphony, Elec, and Fire. Plant might be the exception here because of how important Carrion Creepers are and those come online at 22 and usually aren't near perma that early.

 

[Ringo]

(Dis da broot frum, mate)

[twozerofoxtrot]

Oh, so it is.

 

Okay well...

 

broot ninjitsu when?

[Spaghetti Betty]

One of the best cruise control melees you can make (whether on SOs or otherwise) would definitely be a Dark/Rad. Dark Melee gets a very solid AoE as early as level 4 which is a huge difference maker. Stacking -tohit from punches will help ablate some incoming damage as well. Rad Armor will also have a good chunk of it's tools by level 18, which includes an AoE heal and an absorption barrier which Siphon Life will do a great job of padding. End may be a little wonky without dipping into IOs, but it's pretty easy to smooth out by your late 20s.

[Ringo]

May be old biases but I have never thought of Shadow Maul as solid

[Spaghetti Betty]

44 minutes ago, Ringo said:

May be old biases but I have never thought of Shadow Maul as solid

It's old biases! Shadow Maul was always a great power even before the changes (though it did require some aiming). With the buffs, it's now a 120 degree arc that animates in half the time. And unlike new Touch of Fear, it's -tohit applies to every target hit.

[Snarky]

SS Willpower is nice at Low level.  Mez prot at 10.  Knockout Blow at 8.  No Aoe until way late, but you have Punch Haymaker and KO Blow right up front.  That is something to hit a level 8-10 Boss with and just laugh

[Unclemarty]

Great ideas! I probably should have specified that I'm looking at the late 20's - early 30's levels. I'm interested in experimenting with IO builds and I believe this is around the level range where IOs become more effective than SO. If possible, I'm looking for sets that can offer good mitigation and attacks by taking only a few powers. This way I don't have to spread slots out to so many powers. 

 

So i'm looking for:

Sets with a complete attack chain in a few powers are a plus

Attacks that offer some sort of damage mitigation are a plus

sets that offer some sort of endurance management are a plus

 

Thanks!

[kelika2]

Ganna double down and encourage you to go Tanker for better low level melee experiences JUST because of Burn

Fire/Dark is another fun one.  buildup is late however Touch of Fear has that huge tanker aoe radius.  And if you can get used to hopping while surrounded.  Shadowmaul can hit things behind you because the Tanker version is just so fucking wide.

Fire/Ice tanker.  between the classic of classic combos of Ice Slick and Burn and the new-to-homecoming damage on Frost and Ice Stomp.  The Hop+frost trick is amazing here

Fiery Melee got buffed.. recentlyish.  Fire/Fire tanks still mow things down with that shortened animation Combustion.

 

oh man... and battleaxe.  drawing in things into your burn after burn burned the others so you can reburn other nonburned things.  sure cyclone comes in later(as a tank) than the others but that can be your brute.  axe/fire.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Battleaxe gets pendulum at level 8 now.  A former T9 at level 8!  (Admittedly, they tuned back the damage a bit).  

 

Axe Cyclone with a few slots in it (let's say by level 25) would have you dominating in your mid-20s.

 

[EDIT: as @kelika2 notes, a tanker gets burn at 18 and pendulum at 20, which will be very very powerful in your early 20s.]

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Yomo Kimyata

[Without_Pause]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:15 PM, Ringo said:

As far as Primaries, Claws is the only one that has all of its kit by level 12

You need to hit 18 to have a final ST attack chain. You need to hit 26 to have your AoE attack chain.  Saying Claws is done at 12 is a giant ball of WTF are you doing?

[Ringo]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

You need to hit 18 to have a final ST attack chain. You need to hit 26 to have your AoE attack chain.  Saying Claws is done at 12 is a giant ball of WTF are you doing?

Focus, Eviscerate, and Shockwave aren't really necessary to use or enjoy Claws.  The set operates just fine on 3 attacks, Follow Up, and Spin if that's what you want

[Snarky]

21 hours ago, Unclemarty said:

Great ideas! I probably should have specified that I'm looking at the late 20's - early 30's levels. I'm interested in experimenting with IO builds and I believe this is around the level range where IOs become more effective than SO. If possible, I'm looking for sets that can offer good mitigation and attacks by taking only a few powers. This way I don't have to spread slots out to so many powers. 

 

So i'm looking for:

Sets with a complete attack chain in a few powers are a plus

Attacks that offer some sort of damage mitigation are a plus

sets that offer some sort of endurance management are a plus

 

Thanks!

Well by 32 SS Invul is a Brute not to be messed with.  Footstomp at 32 is your only aoe.  And all that you need.  

[Without_Pause]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:35 AM, Ringo said:

Focus, Eviscerate, and Shockwave aren't really necessary to use or enjoy Claws.  The set operates just fine on 3 attacks, Follow Up, and Spin if that's what you want

I'll agree on Evis, but Claws is really not that great if you remove the other two. Focus is its best ST DPA. Shockwave is its best AoE DPA. This says nothing about the ability to use 100% knockdown in a spammable way when using a single IO. I've kept countless bosses on their rear ends never taking a hit or so few my health bar hardly moved. FYI, that third attack? I one slot it and don't even put any enhancement into it since its DPA isn't worth it. Also, three attacks means you also are skipping Slash, which is just all the more WTF are you even doing at that point. Kin melee is better than a 3 attack Claws, and as someone who has done the numbers, Kin is horrifically bad.

 

Saying that, Claws is as smooth of a ride while leveling that you will find and it certainly blooms early. 

[Without_Pause]

On 12/30/2023 at 12:18 PM, Unclemarty said:

Great ideas! I probably should have specified that I'm looking at the late 20's - early 30's levels.

This leads a bit to */* since you have both T9s by 30. The biggest issue for the melee attacks sets is how smooth the attack chain is at lower levels. Claws, StJ, MA, Kat, and some others work here. There are slower/higher damage attacks sets like BS, BA, WH, etc which won't fill in until later. I felt like on my BA it took until the 40s for the recharge and end management to really start to click. I have a hard time thinking of an armor which would need to wait until 35+ for it to truly kick in.