Pushing the boundaries with character concept - help appreciated

[Scarlet Shocker]

I was inspired (as occasionally happens) with a character concept that (as often happens) begins with a name.

 

In fact two names, interlinked - a character made of glass; Vitric Vixen aka The Glass Fox

 

This then leads down a train of thought - are they two people with similar powers ( but I don't want to play two characters the same ) or are they twins or something? Am I channelling my inner Khonshu and choosing someone with MPD to do my bidding?

 

I have a feeling it's the latter... but not necessarily mental disability more a case of one person with a "refracted" personality, who splits from one persona to another - good/evil, lots of mirrors etc.

 

Vitric Vixen was relatively easy - an Ice/Ice blaster with a few spiky bits with pale blues and I'm pleased with the concept - able to project glass shards at enemies to shred them and bring them to their knees.

 

The Glass Fox (for some reason "THE" definitive seems very important here) - less obvious and I've gone with a placeholder set  because I don't want to get bogged down with ice but I'm leaning towards say a glass corruptor and a villainous personality. I've created a character redside for her but there's more work to be done.

 

I'd like them to be the same person but moving in time and space more like Billy Pilgrim in Slaughterhouse 5 than Jake Lockley/Marc Spector/Moon Knight - but able to have similar experiences within the game so they understand what each other sees and that's where I'm struggling to execute my cunning plan.

 

How do I realise these in game? So far I've made two characters, one with a very wooly build and backstory one who is quite solid and sharp, a pleasing character. Lots of metaphors going on here obviously but that's part of the joy of it. So I figured I'd throw the concept open to the community to see what you good folks can come up with and welcome your input.

 

 

 

 

 

for reference:

vitric

adjective

vit·ric

ˈvi‧trik

 

: having the nature or quality of glass : resembling glass

 

 

—distinguished from ceramic

 

 

 

(also why isn't vitric in the HC forum dictionary database?)

[Snarky]

are you happy with both being ice ice Blasters?  If so you could alt build...  One might be an in your face Blapper and the other reliant on the stealth pool and range for a completely different build tertiary power sets and playstyle....

[Scarlet Shocker]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

are you happy with both being ice ice Blasters?  If so you could alt build...  One might be an in your face Blapper and the other reliant on the stealth pool and range for a completely different build tertiary power sets and playstyle....

 

No, I'd prefer not to play two sets the same. I could have one set in common but I'd prefer to play something variable... since I wrote this I've been thinking that The Glass Fox might do something like refract light - so there's an opportunity for multiple colours there but I'm struggling to think off the top of my head what might give that effect? Rad with lots of colour work in the costume creator?

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

No, I'd prefer not to play two sets the same. I could have one set in common but I'd prefer to play something variable... since I wrote this I've been thinking that The Glass Fox might do something like refract light - so there's an opportunity for multiple colours there but I'm struggling to think off the top of my head what might give that effect? Rad with lots of colour work in the costume creator?

An ice cold corr is one of the top tier league players.  The aoe FU is priceless.  I have played cold trollers, too good at one thing and nothing of the other.  Corr with debuffs are da bom

[Frozen Burn]

I agree Ice/Cold Corr would fit the theme well, and you can have the shields they cast and other powers different colors if you wanted.

 

You could also perhaps have The Glass Fox be melee instead of range...  an Ice/Ice Tank, Brute, Scrapper, or even Stalker to be even more "darker/devious" thematic-wise.  

 

If you want to get away from Ice on The Glass Fox, then Energy Blast with different colors could look like refracted light.  Or even Energy melee.  Energy Shield set could be an interesting light-refracting set.

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

19 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

I agree Ice/Cold Corr would fit the theme well, and you can have the shields they cast and other powers different colors if you wanted.

 

You could also perhaps have The Glass Fox be melee instead of range...  an Ice/Ice Tank, Brute, Scrapper, or even Stalker to be even more "darker/devious" thematic-wise.  

 

If you want to get away from Ice on The Glass Fox, then Energy Blast with different colors could look like refracted light.  Or even Energy melee.  Energy Shield set could be an interesting light-refracting set.

 

 

I'll bandwagon on to Ice/Cold Corruptor. Best powerset combination in the game for solo, team, or otherwise. Can't go wrong!

[Akisan]

"The Glass Fox" sounds like she'd be a notorious, rather accomplished (and elusive) thief.  I'd lean towards either <Ice/Dual Blade/Katana>/SR Stalker (a catburglar, focused on not getting caught), or a Mind/Ice Controller (Carmen Sandiego-style femme fatale, doing what she can to have her marks hand her what she's trying to steal).  I could also see an Ice/<Ice/Stone(crystal variant) Scrapper, if you'd prefer a bruiser, assassin or just generally rougher character (though, I'm not sure how a tougher, melee fighter would come by the Glass part of their name and have it be a good thing)

[Scarlet Shocker]

Wow this is evolving fast. Thanks for your input.

 

Of course one hero I didn't reference and should have maybe is the Sentry where their alter-ego is the Void a dark aspect. I don't see her as that fractured but essentially what I'm trying to do here is play two ATs as one character almost simultaneously. That's a point I think I didn't make well enough in my OP - the AT is almost secondary to that aspect and the mechanics of making it happen are challenging and escaping me.

On the other hand Glass Fox does have a theme tune (please forgive the disgusting intro)

 

As to your suggestions:

On live I had Snowfreak, who was a complete monster - an Ice/Energy blaster who just shredded things and this was pre-Invention stuff. For those of you who have long memories and played on Defiant I even beat Kung Fu Steve in PVP on her and he was considered to be on of the very best back in the day.

 

I could remake Vitric Vixen and I do like the thought of an Ice/Cold crupper. But whenever anyone mentions Ice/Cold I think of Alex and John Mills worshipping that pint! (reference for the truly old)

 

@Akisan, I like your thought process but I generally dislike melee toons. The only melee toon who's ever given me much joy was Invincible Woman, my Elec/Kin tank. But...

 

and I'm thinking out loud as I type. I do like the kind of "tricksy thiefsy" character you mention. (As an aside one of my all-time favourite game series was Thief) so that would fit well in my comfort zone but that character doesn't really exist in our game. I'm presuming you're referencing maybe Catwoman, Black Cat... I'd got half a mind to reference Fox from Wanted (the comic not the awful movie.) The closest to a thief I can think of in our game is a Stalker and Ice/Ice Stalker doesn't... it has the glass aspect down but it doesn't get my juices going.

 

I'm trying to figure out how this character works - Vixen is the hero, bright, white hat, all of that but maybe when shit hits the fan her Glass Fox alter-ego comes out who is mean, vicious, cunning (as per the proverbial fox) and probably a damned sight harder and more dangerous than Vixen.

 

Perhaps when that happens, her survival mechanisms kick in and her charm takes over so although she's got the glass stuff going on her charisma entices civilians and innocent bystanders to rush to her aid (Thugs/Cold MM)

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

throwing this out here informed by the above but -

 

Ice/Bio Sentinel.

 

It works thus: Vixen gets defeated, Glass Fox takes over and becomes more resilient. I'd probably take stealth.

 

I don't enjoy my limited experience with Sentinels - and I'm sure I would not enjoy this but it kinda fits with concept but is also possibly a bit close to Hyde/Hulk

 

 

[Akisan]

8 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

and I'm thinking out loud as I type. I do like the kind of "tricksy thiefsy" character you mention. (As an aside one of my all-time favourite game series was Thief) so that would fit well in my comfort zone but that character doesn't really exist in our game. I'm presuming you're referencing maybe Catwoman, Black Cat... I'd got half a mind to reference Fox from Wanted (the comic not the awful movie.) The closest to a thief I can think of in our game is a Stalker and Ice/Ice Stalker doesn't... it has the glass aspect down but it doesn't get my juices going.

 

That's definitely the style I was thinking of with the /SR stalker.  It'd be nice, RP/theme-wise, to have that sort of heist style gaming, but I'll agree that CoH isn't great for that.

 

8 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I'm trying to figure out how this character works - Vixen is the hero, bright, white hat, all of that but maybe when shit hits the fan her Glass Fox alter-ego comes out who is mean, vicious, cunning (as per the proverbial fox) and probably a damned sight harder and more dangerous than Vixen.

 

Perhaps when that happens, her survival mechanisms kick in and her charm takes over so although she's got the glass stuff going on her charisma entices civilians and innocent bystanders to rush to her aid (Thugs/Cold MM)

 

That cold-hearted, calculating charisma is what I had in mind when I mentioned a Mind/ controller, especially using stealth + confuse & mass confusion to have her enemies tear themselves apart.  I hadn't considered an MM to represent that, but it would fit. 

 

8 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

It works thus: Vixen gets defeated, Glass Fox takes over and becomes more resilient. I'd probably take stealth.

 

I don't enjoy my limited experience with Sentinels - and I'm sure I would not enjoy this but it kinda fits with concept but is also possibly a bit close to Hyde/Hulk

 

With this in mind though...  I would consider a Peacebringer, especially with your earlier comment about controlling light.  Not sure if I'd stick human-only, or go tri-form, but a villainous or rogue PB would match that alter-ego well.

[ForeverLaxx]

In addition to Spine Melee with the Crystal Spine customization, you could run a Dominator with Thorny Assault using that same Spine customization. I'm not sure if Thorny Assault is considered "good" or if that matters to you, but it's an option. Pair it with Mind Control or Illusion for a misdirection/light refraction theme maybe.

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

In addition to Spine Melee with the Crystal Spine customization, you could run a Dominator with Thorny Assault using that same Spine customization. I'm not sure if Thorny Assault is considered "good" or if that matters to you, but it's an option. Pair it with Mind Control or Illusion for a misdirection/light refraction theme maybe.

 

 

OOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!

 

"Good" power sets don't bother me as such. I play for fun, and often I find being less than amazing = lots more fun.

 

I have limited experience of Dominators but I've been playing one recently who rocks, a Mind/Rad so I couldn't play another Mind/ so soon but what about..... (gotta fire up the gaming rig to check Mids) something like Sonic/Thorns for that "cut glass shattering shriek" thing and the shard look?

 

 

Guys I've really enjoyed your input into my crazy stream of consciousness. Thanks again. I've yet to make up my mind completely because new ideas keep coming in all the time but we're getting somewhere! Keep 'em coming!

[Scarlet Shocker]

Ice Control/Thorny Assault... Stealth, Teleport and Ice Mastery as my EPP

 

I think we might have cracked it guys.

 

So... I've got Vitric Vixen at 2osomething but I'm quite enjoying the notion of an Ice/Cold crupper --> Ice/Thorn Dom

 

 

[srmalloy]

On 12/30/2023 at 2:53 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

Vitric Vixen aka The Glass Fox

Vitrified Vixen, perhaps.

[Scarlet Shocker]

37 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Vitrified Vixen, perhaps.

 

I'm not entirely certain where you're going with that other than a name change? Are you suggesting she should somehow be turned into glass by an external force?

[Bionic_Flea]

I was going to jump on the bandwagon of ice/cold corrupter, but make 2 builds and costumes, then slot and play one like a blaster and the other like a defender -- ie, take and slot more blast powers for maximum damage vs take and slot buff/debuff for maximum support.

 

You could even set up a bind that switched the builds and costumes. 

 

Hmm . . . this is sounding really cool and fun.  I'm gonna have to come up with a similar concept.

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

11 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I was going to jump on the bandwagon of ice/cold corrupter, but make 2 builds and costumes, then slot and play one like a blaster and the other like a defender -- ie, take and slot more blast powers for maximum damage vs take and slot buff/debuff for maximum support.

 

You could even set up a bind that switched the builds and costumes. 

 

Hmm . . . this is sounding really cool and fun.  I'm gonna have to come up with a similar concept.

 

 

THIS!!! This is excellent! I hadn't even thought of that, but it does have the disadvantage that you're not changing the single most identifying characteristic which is the name of course.

 

I've moved Vitric to Reunion as a Blaster and I've recreated her on Everlasting as an Ice/Cold crupper.

 

And of course I've found Vitric's theme tune too - it's kind of old, even Snarky might remember it

 

[Bionic_Flea]

52 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

but it does have the disadvantage that you're not changing the single most identifying characteristic which is the name of course.

 

Vitric Fox?  Glass Vixen?  Vitric Glass?  Fox Vixen?  Would VitricVixen/GlassFox fit?

[Scarlet Shocker]

5 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Vitric Fox?  Glass Vixen?  Vitric Glass?  Fox Vixen?  Would VitricVixen/GlassFox fit?

 

Yes... that kind of solution occurred to me. I might try the one I moved to Runion with that... but I like having the distinct avis and power sets

 

I think this concept has a lot of mileage throughout the game though and can be achieved in ways we've not even thought about yet

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

[Scarlet Shocker]

So I've discovered an issue here that is dissatisfying.

 

It seems logical to me that The Glass Fox should be much more resilient than Vitric Vixen otherwise the transition from one to the other doesn't make sense. (Assuming the transition happens during periods of stress.)

 

As it stands, Vixen (Ice/Ice crupper) is much more damaging and resilient than Fox (Ice/Thorn dom) who is struggling to survive and cannot take enemies down easily. In fairness, both are in their early 30s at this stage so of course things may well change but in my experience, although characters improve over time as you level, they tend never to improve so radically they will suddenly bloom at 50 to put everything else in the shade.

 

I also find The Glass Fox dominator variant quite difficult to play - partly due to my inexperience with doms maybe? - and partly due to the fact that the AT overall seems to require more manual input and control (and is also stupidly end heavy) Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying all of this adventure and she would stand up well on her own and be enjoyable - but there's a different goal here.

 

I also found during playing both that my RP instinct, such as it is, was that Vitric Vixen was the more badass of the two... a hard hitting corrupter that could deal consistently high damage, despite the boost that The Grey Fox gets when Domination is up. I also realised that the names are arse about face - The Grey Fox doesn't sound half as sinister as Vitric Vixen which has a bit more mystery and savagery inherent in it, at least in my opinion.

 

I'm minded then to return the original iteration of Vitric to the duo I have but swap the egos - The Grey Fox is an all ice blaster with the grey hat and Vitric Vixen is a charcoal all ice crupper. That seems good enough and is a position I'd kind of reached earlier in this thread. But that then leaves me with a character floating around which is very viable and quite fun to play - so I was thinking that a server transfer or two and I could recreate the same theme with a slightly different flavour.

 

This newer iteration would be The Grey Fox domination with Vitric Vixen as something like a Sentinel, except that I feel like I could do more with the glass concept than simply going ice/ice/ice. I don't know much about Sents but I was wondering if there's a secondary that would work well thematically but give me something different, so Ice/X/Ice. The question is dear reader, what should X be and more importantly why it would fit with the theme?

[Scarlet Shocker]

so it seems I'm replicating this on Reunion too, with an Ice/Thorn/Ice Dominator with a Spines/Ice/Ice Brute.

 

Both ATs are way out of my comfort zone so it should be interesting!

[Snarky]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:36 AM, Scarlet Shocker said:

So I've discovered an issue here that is dissatisfying.

 

It seems logical to me that The Glass Fox should be much more resilient than Vitric Vixen otherwise the transition from one to the other doesn't make sense. (Assuming the transition happens during periods of stress.)

 

As it stands, Vixen (Ice/Ice crupper) is much more damaging and resilient than Fox (Ice/Thorn dom) who is struggling to survive and cannot take enemies down easily. In fairness, both are in their early 30s at this stage so of course things may well change but in my experience, although characters improve over time as you level, they tend never to improve so radically they will suddenly bloom at 50 to put everything else in the shade.

 

I also find The Glass Fox dominator variant quite difficult to play - partly due to my inexperience with doms maybe? - and partly due to the fact that the AT overall seems to require more manual input and control (and is also stupidly end heavy) Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying all of this adventure and she would stand up well on her own and be enjoyable - but there's a different goal here.

 

I also found during playing both that my RP instinct, such as it is, was that Vitric Vixen was the more badass of the two... a hard hitting corrupter that could deal consistently high damage, despite the boost that The Grey Fox gets when Domination is up. I also realised that the names are arse about face - The Grey Fox doesn't sound half as sinister as Vitric Vixen which has a bit more mystery and savagery inherent in it, at least in my opinion.

 

I'm minded then to return the original iteration of Vitric to the duo I have but swap the egos - The Grey Fox is an all ice blaster with the grey hat and Vitric Vixen is a charcoal all ice crupper. That seems good enough and is a position I'd kind of reached earlier in this thread. But that then leaves me with a character floating around which is very viable and quite fun to play - so I was thinking that a server transfer or two and I could recreate the same theme with a slightly different flavour.

 

This newer iteration would be The Grey Fox domination with Vitric Vixen as something like a Sentinel, except that I feel like I could do more with the glass concept than simply going ice/ice/ice. I don't know much about Sents but I was wondering if there's a secondary that would work well thematically but give me something different, so Ice/X/Ice. The question is dear reader, what should X be and more importantly why it would fit with the theme?

Doms do not mature until the build is complete.  Perma dom, etc.  unfortunately in current CoH Meta this makes them always a B or less Archetype choice.  Because once the build is “complete” and they come into their own they are in Incarnate land where a Corr or Blaster is just a better Archetype.   I do not know what a Crupper is.  A Scrapper of some ilk?   Those mature fast (all melee do) and then become gradually less useful as tou head to endgame.  Although never a bad choice.  Neither is Dom, just Dom never has a level range where it is “wowza”.  Most Melee ATs and powersets cycle through a level range where they feel OP.  

[biostem]

What about an ice/ice stalker?  Blasters tend to be flashy and in your face, so how about someone more stealthy and reserved?

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

What about an ice/ice stalker?  Blasters tend to be flashy and in your face, so how about someone more stealthy and reserved?

I have tried Stalkers.  Unfortunately soloing I find Blasters kill much faster at “normal difficulty”.  By the time a Stalker cycles through stealth and AS and goes into hide and and and.   A Blaster just waits for their big AoEs to rech then finishes with hard hitting ST.  At any level range.