Prestige for Super Groups Again

[sykoholic001]

28 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

The entire SG could collect Prismatic Aether's and parade around in a common costume... Of course that has already been done...

 

Not exactly what I personally would consider a "worthwhile" long term goal but hey... to each their own. 😋

[tidge]

58 minutes ago, sykoholic001 said:

 

Not exactly what I personally would consider a "worthwhile" long term goal but hey... to each their own. 😋

 

I hear ya. There are easily dozens of things a SG can do. Not just for themselves and their members but also for other players: Hosting leagues, earning merits for Purples/ATOs, running arcs, going to PVP zones... I just don't see what "SG Prestige" is necessary to:

 

12 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

... give groups goals, and bring about a consolidation of the player base, allowing us to organize better!!  And I mean put in plenty of badges.

 

 I'm just asking that groups that wish to consolidate get goals and perks they can work for once again which can help build teams to do events, in particular on redside.  And Prestige was just a cool metric as to how much mileage your group had and how much "damage" you had dealt to the gangs and organizations of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles.

 

I know the players and SGs that have the most impact on Torchbearer because I play in their regularly hosted content and team with them. I know the kewl base builders because they advertise and/or have invited me. I don't need to have some arbitrary "leaderboard" added to the game, and if this was added back to the game, I would never check it.

[Earth Dragon]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

This argument fails on this thread. Why? Because if you make a character without heals, of course you don't have access to heal badges. However, we are talking about SGs here. How is being part of a small SG as compared to a large SG the same as making a non-healing character versus a healing character? They aren't even remotely similar. Using the healer example, it is the difference of a character with just one single target heal that grants light healing compared to a character with several heals including AoE ones. Not the difference of making a character without heals compared to one with heals. (Edit: Also, note that in my post you are quoting, I said small SGs, not solo SGs. My "Especially solo SGs" comment was a highlight for reference.)

 

No it doesn't, and more shows that a few of you came in here with ammo already loaded.

 

If someone isn't going to PvP, they know they aren't going to bother with PvP badges and everyone excepts that

 

If someone doesn't care to flip to Villain or Hero side and get those badges, and don't and everyone excepts that

 

If someone doesn't care to look at XXXXX badge tab and see what they still have to do because they aren't trying to get that, they don't and everyone excepts that as their choice

 

The thought that someone who decides to go at the game in an SG with 3 people, refuses to reach out past that, refuses to allows petitioners in who are pondering, and just stays in their corner doing whatever it is they do is now the (said with a deep reverberating voice) "!!PLATINUM STANDARD OF PLAYER PREFERENCE THAT NOW ALL RECOGNIZED ACCOMPLISHMENTS HAVE TO BE BEHOLDEN TO!!" is a non-sense blockade any way you look at it.  Some badges could be out of their reach if there was one for each damage type dealt, for example, and they didn't have that damage type........that's the way it goes.  It is no different from the individual character who doesn't heal not getting a healing badge or the player who doesn't ever step into a PvP zone and so never gets those badges.  If you want to try to get the "Everfrost" SG Badge, you 3 folks can make a Water Blast, Ice Melee, and Demon Summoning Trio and have fun, with an interesting benchmark.

 

As someone who had over 10mil Prestige with a single character, but who didn't play for 8 years (I don't even think it was three years that I had a subscription going, and less then half of that time was spent on my main, I have a demanding job the entire time, and I HATE farming so wasn't doing it) I know you can do quite a bit by just playing the game.  But I also know that there might be badges/accolades in an SG (if they exist again and are expanded) that don't suit my fancy.  I don't think I've got past CL 10 with a Psychic character.  If there is a "Bunch of Psychos" badge that wants us to do XXXX psychic damage, I'll likely shrug my shoulders and move on.  If I notice somehow we are halfway there........well.......guess I'll give it a shot!

 

To the troll that pretends we should all get notepads out and do tally marks for how many times we do a particular TF/SF, and scroll back through our damage logs to add up the amount of lethal dealt and received, and any other such ludicrous thing that you fully well know the game can keep track of and give us a nifty title for the SG because we did whatever the badge confirms we did a lot of........THAT is what prevents us from doing certain long term goals.  We despise the Circle of Thorns.  Now we look at the Super Group Badge tab and see we took out 100,000+ and got the "Hedge Trimmer" Badge to confirm that role-played rivalry.

 

Folks, this ability is already in the game.  We know it is already there.  The game encouraging you to do every TF/SF 20 times versus just farming the same one 200 times as a bunch because that's the one "Goofy Goober Gamer" proved was the fastest and most profitable and that's the only one others want to has solid benefits to diversify the content sought after for those who have been around a while and those who will come later.

 

And what does Prestige do against all this?  With no rent, no component costs and presumably no influence penalty anymore, it's just a "to infinity and beyond" metric.  There may be a cap in the game code, and if someone finds it.......let them.  It's the thing that you are likely still earning and accumulating even past the group getting all the badges, if it happens, and can come with fun moments for individual toons that break a million!  You throw a party!  However that individual decided to go about the game, whether it was doing missions, TFs/SFs, solo, in parties, doesn't matter.  They got there.  They spread the name of your group across the server to whoever they did.  It was a milestone for them that was accomplished for the group.

 

Our group was excited to build again what little we could with the official go ahead given on the servers.  What we thought was going to be there was drastically changed.  We're looking to get what we know can easily be turned back on.  The caustic attitude this was met with immediately and the intentional misrepresentation by a handful is honestly shocking, but I suppose should have been expected, as that's the way the internet goes.

[sykoholic001]

5 minutes ago, tidge said:

I don't need to have some arbitrary "leaderboard" added to the game, and if this was added back to the game, I would never check it.

 

I think that is what Earth Dragon is wanting... the leaderboard or something similar... a measuring stick of some sort by which one could, from a role-playing perspective, determine the effect an SG's effort and activities are supposedly having on the game world. It's unclear to me whether Earth Dragon wants this "measuring stick" to be public or private but personally, I think such a thing should be kept private so that only members of the SG could see the SG's rating... so as to avoid the overly-competitive "p*issing contest" nonsense that happened with the Prestige leaderboard back in the day.

[Ghost]

I’d like for the ability to post on the forums to be locked behind the amount of SG prestige you have

 

😎

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

No it doesn't, and more shows that a few of you came in here with ammo already loaded.

 

If someone isn't going to PvP, they know they aren't going to bother with PvP badges and everyone excepts that

 

If someone doesn't care to flip to Villain or Hero side and get those badges, and don't and everyone excepts that

 

If someone doesn't care to look at XXXXX badge tab and see what they still have to do because they aren't trying to get that, they don't and everyone excepts that as their choice

 

The thought that someone who decides to go at the game in an SG with 3 people, refuses to reach out past that, refuses to allows petitioners in who are pondering, and just stays in their corner doing whatever it is they do is now the (said with a deep reverberating voice) "!!PLATINUM STANDARD OF PLAYER PREFERENCE THAT NOW ALL RECOGNIZED ACCOMPLISHMENTS HAVE TO BE BEHOLDEN TO!!" is a non-sense blockade any way you look at it.  Some badges could be out of their reach if there was one for each damage type dealt, for example, and they didn't have that damage type........that's the way it goes.  It is no different from the individual character who doesn't heal not getting a healing badge or the player who doesn't ever step into a PvP zone and so never gets those badges.  If you want to try to get the "Everfrost" SG Badge, you 3 folks can make a Water Blast, Ice Melee, and Demon Summoning Trio and have fun, with an interesting benchmark.

 

As someone who had over 10mil Prestige with a single character, but who didn't play for 8 years (I don't even think it was three years that I had a subscription going, and less then half of that time was spent on my main, I have a demanding job the entire time, and I HATE farming so wasn't doing it) I know you can do quite a bit by just playing the game.  But I also know that there might be badges/accolades in an SG (if they exist again and are expanded) that don't suit my fancy.  I don't think I've got past CL 10 with a Psychic character.  If there is a "Bunch of Psychos" badge that wants us to do XXXX psychic damage, I'll likely shrug my shoulders and move on.  If I notice somehow we are halfway there........well.......guess I'll give it a shot!

 

To the troll that pretends we should all get notepads out and do tally marks for how many times we do a particular TF/SF, and scroll back through our damage logs to add up the amount of lethal dealt and received, and any other such ludicrous thing that you fully well know the game can keep track of and give us a nifty title for the SG because we did whatever the badge confirms we did a lot of........THAT is what prevents us from doing certain long term goals.  We despise the Circle of Thorns.  Now we look at the Super Group Badge tab and see we took out 100,000+ and got the "Hedge Trimmer" Badge to confirm that role-played rivalry.

 

Folks, this ability is already in the game.  We know it is already there.  The game encouraging you to do every TF/SF 20 times versus just farming the same one 200 times as a bunch because that's the one "Goofy Goober Gamer" proved was the fastest and most profitable and that's the only one others want to has solid benefits to diversify the content sought after for those who have been around a while and those who will come later.

 

And what does Prestige do against all this?  With no rent, no component costs and presumably no influence penalty anymore, it's just a "to infinity and beyond" metric.  There may be a cap in the game code, and if someone finds it.......let them.  It's the thing that you are likely still earning and accumulating even past the group getting all the badges, if it happens, and can come with fun moments for individual toons that break a million!  You throw a party!  However that individual decided to go about the game, whether it was doing missions, TFs/SFs, solo, in parties, doesn't matter.  They got there.  They spread the name of your group across the server to whoever they did.  It was a milestone for them that was accomplished for the group.

 

Our group was excited to build again what little we could with the official go ahead given on the servers.  What we thought was going to be there was drastically changed.  We're looking to get what we know can easily be turned back on.  The caustic attitude this was met with immediately and the intentional misrepresentation by a handful is honestly shocking, but I suppose should have been expected, as that's the way the internet goes.

Your argument again fails and for the same reason. Let's break it down.

 

A PvP'er will earn PvP badges. A PvE'er will not unless they opt to go do some PvP. In this case, it is someone choosing to not partake of something, the PvE'er not doing PvP means the PvE'er will not get any PvP badges.

 

A villain that chooses to stay red side will not get blue side badges and a hero that chooses to stay blue side will not get red side badges. Again, the player is opting to not participate, so they will not get.

 

A player that does not check the badge tabs to see what badges still need what to be completed is most likely not a badger. The badger will pursue the badges whereas the non-badger will not. (Edit: So the non-badger is opting to not participate in getting badges, so they will most likely not get them.)

 

A player that joins a SG is still joining a SG, regardless of whether it is a large group or a small group. Those players are choosing to participate in a SG. They are not opting to not participate else they would not be in a SG. As opposed to the player that does not join a SG, and so is opting to not participate in such. This is a completely different phenomenon than the examples you are citing. Your argument is that if they want the SG badges, then obviously they need to join the large SGs. Which not only punishes smaller SGs, not even looking at solo SGs, just small ones, it also drives those players looking for SGs away from the smaller ones and to the larger ones. Which even further reinforces the smaller SGs' inability to get those SG badges. This is the same thing that happened back on Live. Where only the large SGs would be able to recruit and the smaller ones would try over and over and over to get new recruits, only for the ones they finally get to join to realize they joined a small SG and don't have access to all the perks, badges, and improved base items the large SGs have, then immediately quit the small SG to try again for a large SG. And your comments are leading me to believe that is exactly what you want, for only the large SGs to enjoy recruitment opportunities and base item access and SG badges.

 

Edited January 30 by Rudra
Edited to add "in" to "inability".

[tidge]

7 minutes ago, sykoholic001 said:

 

I think that is what Earth Dragon is wanting... the leaderboard or something similar... a measuring stick of some sort by which one could, from a role-playing perspective, determine the effect an SG's effort and activities are supposedly having on the game world. It's unclear to me whether Earth Dragon wants this "measuring stick" to be public or private but personally, I think such a thing should be kept private so that only members of the SG could see the SG's rating... so as to avoid the overly-competitive "p*issing contest" nonsense that happened with the Prestige leaderboard back in the day.

 

I just got off the phone with my totally real Canadian BFF GM (you don't know them) and they checked the logs of the super-secret SG prestige that was implemented on the "page 23" (I was into it before it was cool) and I was informed that my SG "Flicking Fetch Plastic Heathers" has MOAR SG prestige than anybody else, and that it will be mathematically impossible for anyone to ever exceed our totals, because that is simply NOT how things work in this high school server.

 

[sykoholic001]

4 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

I just got off the phone with my totally real Canadian BFF GM (you don't know them) and they checked the logs of the super-secret SG prestige that was implemented on the "page 23" (I was into it before it was cool) and I was informed that my SG "Flicking Fetch Plastic Heathers" has MOAR SG prestige than anybody else, and that it will be mathematically impossible for anyone to ever exceed our totals, because that is simply NOT how things work in this high school server.

 

Exactly. Childish and silly... but for some reason, people not only did it but actually got rather nasty about it. I was (and am) a solo SG and I couldn't have cared less about SG "ranking". I was more concerned about just being able to pay the upkeep. 😋

[Earth Dragon]

59 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Your argument again fails and for the same reason. Let's break it down.

 

A PvP'er will earn PvP badges. A PvE'er will not unless they opt to go do some PvP. In this case, it is someone choosing to not partake of something, the PvE'er not doing PvP means the PvE'er will not get any PvP badges.

 

A villain that chooses to stay red side will not get blue side badges and a hero that chooses to stay blue side will not get red side badges. Again, the player is opting to not participate, so they will not get.

 

A player that does not check the badge tabs to see what badges still need what to be completed is most likely not a badger. The badger will pursue the badges whereas the non-badger will not. (Edit: So the non-badger is opting to not participate in getting badges, so they will most likely not get them.)

 

A player that joins a SG is still joining a SG, regardless of whether it is a large group or a small group. Those players are choosing to participate in a SG. They are not opting to not participate else they would not be in a SG. As opposed to the player that does not join a SG, and so is opting to not participate in such. This is a completely different phenomenon than the examples you are citing. Your argument is that if they want the SG badges, then obviously they need to join the large SGs. Which not only punishes smaller SGs, not even looking at solo SGs, just small ones, it also drives those players looking for SGs away from the smaller ones and to the larger ones. Which even further reinforces the smaller SGs' inability to get those SG badges. This is the same thing that happened back on Live. Where only the large SGs would be able to recruit and the smaller ones would try over and over and over to get new recruits, only for the ones they finally get to join to realize they joined a small SG and don't have access to all the perks, badges, and improved base items the large SGs have, then immediately quit the small SG to try again for a large SG. And your comments are leading me to believe that is exactly what you want, for only the large SGs to enjoy recruitment opportunities and base item access and SG badges.

 

Except they already gave having a small SG a strong pull and huge advantage since the storage is always the same size and you don't have to build to it so you have "no place to stand"

 

That is where YOU fail and continue to fail to come up with anything truly credible as to why you can't have a badge in game again that say your group gained xxxxxx prestige or create something new where you eliminated 100k Arachnos troops.

 

Posters are claiming you can't or aren't allowed to turn something back on and adjust something already there in the code that would be rather simple all because some players might not be able to get XXXXXX, even though it doesn't affect how they perform in game.  People with packs of friends who are coming back to the game would appreciate if something is available again, and all you can say is "What about the person who already has an easier time then you with his own personal storage"?

 

The Super Groups had functionality that allowed them to build something up.  All that experience has been edited from the game and you're raising a fuss because asking for them to add bumpster stickers that as far as I may be able to tell only the group themselves would be able to see.

 

You guys aren't serious.

[Laucianna]

I do like the idea of more badges for SG wide achievements so I'm all for that bit which is what I believe @Earth Dragon was initially trying to get at, I think at the moment these comments have gone off on a tangent that isn't going anywhere though.

[Rudra]

32 minutes ago, Earth Dragon said:

Except they already gave having a small SG a strong pull and huge advantage since the storage is always the same size and you don't have to build to it so you have "no place to stand"

 

That is where YOU fail and continue to fail to come up with anything truly credible as to why you can't have a badge in game again that say your group gained xxxxxx prestige or create something new where you eliminated 100k Arachnos troops.

 

Posters are claiming you can't or aren't allowed to turn something back on and adjust something already there in the code that would be rather simple all because some players might not be able to get XXXXXX, even though it doesn't affect how they perform in game.  People with packs of friends who are coming back to the game would appreciate if something is available again, and all you can say is "What about the person who already has an easier time then you with his own personal storage"?

 

The Super Groups had functionality that allowed them to build something up.  All that experience has been edited from the game and you're raising a fuss because asking for them to add bumpster stickers that as far as I may be able to tell only the group themselves would be able to see.

 

You guys aren't serious.

Being allowed to exist is not an advantage. The advantage of a solo SG? You have an entire base to yourself. I'm not talking about solo SGs though. I'm talking about small SGs. Small SGs have shared storage just like large SGs. Small SGs typically have an interest in doing the same things the large SGs do. Whether it be running TFs/SFs together, doing iTrials together, forming or leading raids, RP (or non-RP) social events, and anything else pretty much any SG can do. And now you want to add something that the large SGs would be able to do with ridiculous ease, get SG badges, but that small SGs would not be able to do because they will not be able to recruit the people they need to accomplish it. (Or if they are badges they can get on their own? Will take them years to do so. If they have enough members to keep it at just years of effort instead of not at all.) And no, badges are not something the SG only would be able to see. They get loaded to the SG members as well. So everyone can see them if they choose to check the character's information. Yes, we are being serious. However, your stance is obviously that small SGs are solo SGs and so should not even be a consideration. And it was that elitism that upset players like me about SGs and prestige back on Live. 'Your SG can't recruit new members? Tough, you should have joined a proper SG.' 'Your SG can't do X? Tough, you should have joined a proper SG.' 'Your SG is trying to be a "proper SG"? Tough, you should have joined a proper SG in the 1st place.'

 

(Edit: You want SG badges? Fine. Let's add some. However, you want prestige badges or other badges with requirements that only the larger SGs can accomplish? No, I'm against that.) (Edit again: You want to lock anything behind those only large SGs can get badges? Hells no.)

Edited January 31 by Rudra

[lemming]

The past badges for Supergroups were SG only badges.   And frankly, not sure how a SG badge could be anything but just for the group.   Personal badges awarded for SG goals wouldn't make as much sense.  (Do they get it if the SG already met the goal?  Are they out of luck? Do they have to wait for the group to gain the equivalent?)

[Random Axis]

I've thought about bringing back prestige recently too. My thought was that base PVP would require payments for the base's prestige cost. Failure to pay just removes your base from PVP until you can pay it again. 

[Rudra]

30 minutes ago, lemming said:

The past badges for Supergroups were SG only badges.   And frankly, not sure how a SG badge could be anything but just for the group.   Personal badges awarded for SG goals wouldn't make as much sense.  (Do they get it if the SG already met the goal?  Are they out of luck? Do they have to wait for the group to gain the equivalent?)

On Live, when you joined a SG, if they had any SG badges, those badges were loaded to your character. If anyone checked your character's information, they would see your character's personal badges and the SG's badges too. If you left the SG, those badges were no longer loaded against the character, because they belong to the SG. So if anyone checked your character's information after you left the SG, those badges were no longer there because you no longer had access to them. (Edit: A quick way to check that back on Live was to check the character's badge count while in and out of the SG. Even if you weren't a member of said SG, you could do that check with a willing member of a SG. The badge count would go up or down depending on whether they were showing as part of the SG or not, provided the SG had unlocked any of the SG badges.)

 

(Edit again: So to answer your questions in the order asked: Yes. No. Yes or no depending on whether the SG has the badge or not.)

Edited January 31 by Rudra

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Random Axis said:

I've thought about bringing back prestige recently too. My thought was that base PVP would require payments for the base's prestige cost. Failure to pay just removes your base from PVP until you can pay it again. 

I don't know about PvP players and their SGs, but I would personally be fine with that.

[Random Axis]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I don't know about PvP players and their SGs, but I would personally be fine with that.

I'd be adamantly opposed to bring prestige back for everyone. I love the awesome bases some people have made, and they should still have "creative mode" available to keep doing that. It's only the people in combat that should be in a world of limited resources. 

[sykoholic001]

SG Badges: Yes
Boosts, Buffs, Bonuses, Benefits or Base Items dependent on those badges: No

[Starhammer]

I haven't seen much in this thread to justify prestige having an actual use going forward...

That said, I'd prefer the developers find an acceptable use for it, or find a way to clean it off the SG interface.

[SupaFreak]

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And it was that elitism that upset players like me about SGs and prestige back on Live.

 

Okay, I've read through just about all of this thread and that quote from Rudra is the best I can summarize my feeling on this.

"Prestige" is like a sinister old friend that was taken behind the proverbial Homecoming shed and put down,... and yet somehow here he is again, knocking at our City door begging to come in out of the cold and rejoin the party.  Sure, he might be offering badge candy, but there's valid reason for concern that if we let that vagrant back in... we'd quickly be reminded that stranger was secretly a vampire the whole time!  Heck, I can see him now.  He's back to sucking the fun out of the community's veins and pointing to the leaderboard, like the junkie he was all those years ago.  Once a vampire is let through that door, he's a real pain to evict.

Earth Dragon - I can tell you're passionate about the good parts of the old system but in all honesty, as a whole it truly was a system that at its core encouraged "elitist" behavior on a level bad enough to drive some players (or paying subscribers on Live) away from the game.

Your passion for it is admirable, but if you were to enter "Prestige" into a love compatibility test... the results would come back "World of Warcraft".  And as much as I would love to have their subscriber numbers here... I'd rather not have to deal with that "Elitist" lovechild again.

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

but it would be great to have Prestige gain and Super Group badges back again.

 

No. It would not be.

Having to worry about Prestige and monthly rent was tedious and not enjoyable in anyway.

 

20 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

allowing you to contribute to Group badges again would be great, give groups goals

 

Why not just allow all that by default for being a member of a supergroup.

If you are in a supergroup, you help toward the badges.

If your supergroup gains badges while you are part of it, you get the badges and keep them when you leave.

 

Badges are for characters and not supergroups.

Proposed "Supergroup badges" that are for the "supergroup" (and not characters) are a vanity item for the creator of a supergroup. This does not contribute to the community.

 

20 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

Some of these badges could give you new stuff for the base that isn't vital, but looks cool, like guards that patrol the place.  Take out 100k Longbow, and now you can have Arachnos guards in the base.  Take out 100k Arachnos, now you can have Longbow patrolling your base etc.  Smaller groups in the game have much smaller requirements (Blighted, for example, would be like 500, while Arachnos, as I noted, could have a 1k, 10k, and even 100k as a reasonable long term goal).

 

No.

We can't even post NPCs that wander around bases.

PVP is almost non-existent so there is no reason to bother the DEVs with the programming necessary to do this.

 

20 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

I'm just asking that groups that wish to consolidate get goals and perks they can work for once again which can help build teams to do events, in particular on redside.

 

You can do all of that yourself without changing anything in the game.

 

You get what you get for being a villain.

Being a hero has its own rewards.

 

 

 

[UltraAlt]

17 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

We showed back up to the playground, but much of the old equipment is missing.

 

There is more "equipment" here and available to you than when - whenever it was - you left.

 

 

Edited January 31 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

16 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

Why not just start every character at level 50?

 

Why not just give everyone unlimited access to every Enhancement, Recipe, and anything else they want on their character during creation?

 

Why not just click on the TF contact and get the rewards without playing it if you don't want to bother, have too small of a group, or don't have the time?

 

Why is group accomplishment something that has to be burned at the stake?

 

You are just going berserk at this point.

 

You aren't doing anything to advance your position.

 

The group that I game with and all the PuGs that I run with achieve group accomplishments. 

 

You are obviously new. 

How about enjoying the environment and see if you are still playing in a couple of weeks?

[sykoholic001]

7 hours ago, Laucianna said:

I do like the idea of more badges for SG wide achievements so I'm all for that bit which is what I believe @Earth Dragon was initially trying to get at, I think at the moment these comments have gone off on a tangent that isn't going anywhere though.

 

 Not only are they not on the same page, I'm pretty sure they aren't even reading the same book. 🤨

[golstat2003]

10 hours ago, Laucianna said:

I do like the idea of more badges for SG wide achievements so I'm all for that bit which is what I believe @Earth Dragon was initially trying to get at, I think at the moment these comments have gone off on a tangent that isn't going anywhere though.

 

That’s fine. Leave it open to giving those badges to anyone that joins any size SG. Leave prestige out of the game forever. 

[Water]

Maybe a sliding scale for ratio of XP, INF and Prestige. Sacrifice XP or INF in increments of 10% up to 100% for Prestige.