Any future plans to buff Dual Pistols?

[BlakeTheDrake]

So, I spent some of the server downtime reading over the notes for the next update, and was... rather saddened to find that despite changes to several powersets, there was no mention of Dual Pistols. They works decently well for Corruptors and Defenders, who can focus on support instead, but as an actual damage-dealer for a Sentinel or Blaster, they're woefully inadequate. The first character I rolled up was a Sentinel with Dual Pistols, because hey, they look awesome! ...he's currently stuck at 15, while the next character I made is about to hit 50. An in-game friend of mine made a Dual Pistols Blaster, for basically the same reason, only to discover that he struggles to solo even on -1.

 

The problem is that the pistols just DO NOT INFLICT DAMAGE. Their damage-output is, in fact, hilariously inferior to that of the Bow and Arrow set, nevermind the Assault Rifle or Beam Rifle sets. They DO have some decent 'other' effects, including modest CC, debuffs and a fair bit of AoE, and that can work just fine as a supplement to a support-set, but if your entire role is to inflict damage and your primary set just... doesn't, you wind up with a character that feels weak, ineffective, and unfun to play. Which is particularly unfortunate when it's a set that so many people want to play, because of the sheer 'cool factor'.

 

Executioner's Shot, which you have to get to 18 to get, is the only reliable (single-shot) damage-dealer you get. Up to that point, you may as well be wielding a pair of water-pistols. The last two powers, Piercing Shot and Hail of Bullets, deal good damage too of course, but have too long recharge to be a reliable part of your rotation. The set completely lacks the sheer punch that otherwise marks Blast-type sets. For Sentinels, this turns you into a nonentity - you don't take OR deal much damage - and endurance-management becomes a serious problem when soloing due to how much even the simplest fight can drag out. For Blasters, it's nothing short of crippling - it's one thing to be a glass cannon, but something else entirely to be a glass cannon that only fires water-balloons. They're supposed to embody the ancient truism that the best defense is a strong offense, so without that offense, they've got nothing left.

 

Mind, I don't necessarily know how to FIX it. The early skills definitely need to be boosted, though - somehow. More damage, faster cooldown, whatever. Perhaps Bullet Rain could be altered to do more damage if there are fewer enemies in its AoE? That would make sense, from a logical standpoint - same number of bullets hitting fewer targets, or just one. Perhaps the ammo-types could be made stronger, particularly the incendiary ammo which currently deals somewhat pathetic amounts of DoT. Whether there are adjustments needed in the later levels, such as shorter cooldowns for the actually hard-hitting big-ticket attacks, I can't say, since I haven't managed to get my own Dual Gunner past level 15... but, I'd love to hear from the people who've stuck with the set to the bitter end!

[Rimerat]

Dual Pistols trades an 'Aim' ability for some flavor options (Swap Ammo) though 99% of people just run Incen rounds and forget about it I think.

 

I don't think it's in as dire a state as you make it sound and there are probably other things I'd like to see tuned first, if I'm completely honest. My friend has a DP/Martial Blaster and gets around just fine. Very killy.

 

What you haven't mentioned is that most of DP's powers can be comfortably slotted with two procs, some times three or more procs if you really want to go ham (kb; force feedback +rech, tons of damage procs). I think that's where it's strength truly is.

Edited February 1 by Wiseguy

[Water]

I mained a DP blaster for 6 months. I usually go with toxic ammo to reduce damage, ice ammo to keep clockwork from running too far and incendiary sometimes if the general team dmg output is low. Mainly toxic though to be lazy, it works well in the mixed level content I play. The swap ammo options provide good crowd control and debuffs.

 

I agree that DPs can seem a bit weak if poorly slotted but the compromise is swap ammo. You could get more output at the sacrifice of set bonuses if desired, SOs would suit a one trick pony type of DP blaster well.

 

 

EDIT - if I was to make any change it would be to swap ammo faster.

 

Edited February 1 by Water

[Psyonico]

I have at least 14 DP characters spanning all 4 ATs (with at least 5 at 50).  The set is not in as dire of a situation as you make it out to be.  It's solidly middle tier.  I believe that the AoE damage in the set actually works out to be higher than average.

[kanga]

I think  my DP/Martial is my most enjoyable to play blaster, that said it's very much not at the top of the dps scale, but it is enough. I definitely would not like to play one in other AT's though.

[FupDup]

There is currently no word on if the devs plan to do anything with the set or when. Part of the reason for that is that people might interpret such as a promise/expectation to get to a certain thing at a certain time, so better to keep it hush hush so it's like a surprise gift if it ever comes. 

 

That being said, I do wish that DP has some kind of proper Aim replacement/substitute like converting one of the existing underused powers (Dual Wield?) into a ranged follow-up kind of power. Or someone suggested once that swapping ammo types could give a brief follow-up effect.

 

Beyond that I also think that the alternate ammo damage types should make up a larger % of the total damage each attack does (same damage total, just different split between lethal/exotic) so that you can more properly counter enemies resists. Perhaps the standard ammo could be turned into smashing damage instead of just lethal? Like hollow points or such. 

 

Last but not least, I want the Sentinel variant of Suppressive Fire to have its standard ammo form do real damage again like all other Sentinel stun blasts get. It shouldn't be fully dependent on alternate ammo or mega proc bombing to function. 

Edited February 2 by FupDup

[Riverdusk]

Posting subjective experiences is fine, but if you really want to make an argument for buffs to something you're going to need to post real data.

 

I'm no DPS or DPA expert myself, but as others have said, and my own experience/knowledge and just roughly looking at the numbers of the set (DPA is generally agreed to be the most important), it is a solid middle of the road set.  Funny that you mention archery and beam as I feel DP does better than either of those personally.  Beam does excel vs. AV's in particular though with its -regen debuff, but it is pretty slow against "normal" mobs.

 

Also as others have mentioned DP is a great "proc" powerset as in it can take a lot of IO enhancements with extra damage chances, more than most other sets.  That can definitely help out its damage. 

[BlakeTheDrake]

All good points, and I can't claim to have tried every Blast-set... perhaps I'm prejudiced by my own experiences, but it's worth keeping in mind that most of my problem with the set is that the EARLY LEVELS are an absolute slog to SOLO because of the lack of single-target damage. You've got two good AoEs, but those only come into their own on larger teams, and are bog useless when you're just fighting a single Lieutenant. It really does wind up feeling like you grabbed a BB-gun by mistake in those cases.

 

Things such as slotting for lots of procs, or using specific sets, aren't helpful to a character that's struggling to reach level 18 and get the Executioner's Shot. Especially not if you don't have some high-level alt who can donate resources.

 

Now, here's the thing... having played a Dual Pistols Sentinel to Level 15, I know in my heart that I'm doing the vast majority of my damage with the Premium Attack Powers, rather than my actual powerset. Do I have hard numbers and reams of data to back that up? Nope. Could I get it? Maybe. Will I? Heck no. Because it doesn't matter. What matters is that the set feels weak. That it feels frustrating and slow to play when soloing - which, depending on what 'side' you start on, you may have to do a lot of! Even if some spreadsheet was pulled up to demonstrate that I'm wrong, and that the guns actually deal perfectly decent damage... that doesn't change that feeling, nor does it make that character any more fun to play. At most, it suggests that there are different measures that needs to be taken to make the set feel more powerful.

 

In the end, you can only exist in your own, subjective reality, viewing the world through your own eyes and nobody else's. If the same liquid tastes better to you in a Coca-Cola bottle than a store-brand cola-bottle, then it tastes better - even if they are manufactured wholesale by your brain, the results remain.

[Riverdusk]

3 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

All good points, and I can't claim to have tried every Blast-set... perhaps I'm prejudiced by my own experiences, but it's worth keeping in mind that most of my problem with the set is that the EARLY LEVELS are an absolute slog to SOLO because of the lack of single-target damage. You've got two good AoEs, but those only come into their own on larger teams, and are bog useless when you're just fighting a single Lieutenant. It really does wind up feeling like you grabbed a BB-gun by mistake in those cases.

 

Things such as slotting for lots of procs, or using specific sets, aren't helpful to a character that's struggling to reach level 18 and get the Executioner's Shot. Especially not if you don't have some high-level alt who can donate resources.

 

Now, here's the thing... having played a Dual Pistols Sentinel to Level 15, I know in my heart that I'm doing the vast majority of my damage with the Premium Attack Powers, rather than my actual powerset. Do I have hard numbers and reams of data to back that up? Nope. Could I get it? Maybe. Will I? Heck no. Because it doesn't matter. What matters is that the set feels weak. That it feels frustrating and slow to play when soloing - which, depending on what 'side' you start on, you may have to do a lot of! Even if some spreadsheet was pulled up to demonstrate that I'm wrong, and that the guns actually deal perfectly decent damage... that doesn't change that feeling, nor does it make that character any more fun to play. At most, it suggests that there are different measures that needs to be taken to make the set feel more powerful.

 

In the end, you can only exist in your own, subjective reality, viewing the world through your own eyes and nobody else's. If the same liquid tastes better to you in a Coca-Cola bottle than a store-brand cola-bottle, then it tastes better - even if they are manufactured wholesale by your brain, the results remain.

 

Just to be sure, you have tried using Suppressive Fire with either fire or ice ammo? (doable by level 8).  Do so and it is a pretty fast recharging and hard hitting attack.  If you are skipping it or trying to use it with standard ammo (or even toxic ammo) I could understand your perceptions.  The damage info shown for the power can be misleading and its a weird power the way it works.

[DrunkFlux]

3 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

All good points, and I can't claim to have tried every Blast-set... perhaps I'm prejudiced by my own experiences, but it's worth keeping in mind that most of my problem with the set is that the EARLY LEVELS are an absolute slog to SOLO because of the lack of single-target damage. You've got two good AoEs, but those only come into their own on larger teams, and are bog useless when you're just fighting a single Lieutenant. It really does wind up feeling like you grabbed a BB-gun by mistake in those cases.

 

Things such as slotting for lots of procs, or using specific sets, aren't helpful to a character that's struggling to reach level 18 and get the Executioner's Shot. Especially not if you don't have some high-level alt who can donate resources.

 

Now, here's the thing... having played a Dual Pistols Sentinel to Level 15, I know in my heart that I'm doing the vast majority of my damage with the Premium Attack Powers, rather than my actual powerset. Do I have hard numbers and reams of data to back that up? Nope. Could I get it? Maybe. Will I? Heck no. Because it doesn't matter. What matters is that the set feels weak. That it feels frustrating and slow to play when soloing - which, depending on what 'side' you start on, you may have to do a lot of! Even if some spreadsheet was pulled up to demonstrate that I'm wrong, and that the guns actually deal perfectly decent damage... that doesn't change that feeling, nor does it make that character any more fun to play. At most, it suggests that there are different measures that needs to be taken to make the set feel more powerful.

 

In the end, you can only exist in your own, subjective reality, viewing the world through your own eyes and nobody else's. If the same liquid tastes better to you in a Coca-Cola bottle than a store-brand cola-bottle, then it tastes better - even if they are manufactured wholesale by your brain, the results remain.

 

Firstly, you've only leveled up to 15, you don't even have SO-enhancements(or equivilent IOs) yet.  And not to mention procs if you decide to use them.  Also why not play a different character to level 50, save up a ton of influence and then transfer it to the struggling DP toon?  Even then though, why are you playing solo all the time?  Teaming gets you more experience/hour and if you wanna solo the archs consider using Ouroboros to play them after you've leveled up a bunch.  AND teams can provide things like buffs to make up for your weaknesses until your high enough level to hold your own.

 

I mean my first 50 on homecoming was a DP/Time manipulation corruptor, and I had no major difficulty, because teamwork.  I played in teams and debuffed everything in my path, I used PBU to boost farsight(and also sometimes hail of bullets) and make myself and allies ridiculously tough.  Build would probably be even stronger today than back then, in fact.  And in fact i'm starting, of all things, a DP/devices blaster to lately.

I also maxed out a DP/bio sentinel to, and found it rather fun, and probably stronger now due to the sentinel buff.  She wasn't the highest damage but her staying power was amazing, I almost never went down when I was leveling her.

If it still feels like you have problems perhaps reroll a different powerset or archtype.  Honestly, your judging the powerset far to soon, level 15 is again very, very week, most sets are rather weak at that level range.  Some just more than others(looking at you SR on scrapper/stalker).  Either level it up some more OR try something else. 

 

Honestly?  If your going for solo play, i'd recommend scrapper if your new to the game, rather than sentinel.  Many scrapper sets have far higher raw DPS, good burst, and also scrapper secondaries most mature rather quickly(but i'd ask a little on this maybe, some like super reflexes aren't fully online all the way until level 28 on a scrapper, but Bio armor and radiation armor are both very good even at low levels).  Sentinel is far more a niche archtype, it can be great, granted, though it struggles with sets that depend on procs or higher levels to feel fully online compared to the other ranged archtypes.

[DrunkFlux]

19 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Just to be sure, you have tried using Suppressive Fire with either fire or ice ammo? (doable by level 8).  Do so and it is a pretty fast recharging and hard hitting attack.  If you are skipping it or trying to use it with standard ammo (or even toxic ammo) I could understand your perceptions.  The damage info shown for the power can be misleading and its a weird power the way it works.

I second this, suppressive fire is very, very good on a sentinel when your using fire/ice ammo.  In fact, superior on a sentinel over the other ranged archtypes if I remember right.

[SeraphimKensai]

20 hours ago, Psyonico said:

I have at least 14 DP characters spanning all 4 ATs (with at least 5 at 50).  The set is not in as dire of a situation as you make it out to be.  It's solidly middle tier.  I believe that the AoE damage in the set actually works out to be higher than average.

I'm in full agreement here. I have taken it to 50 now on all 4 ATs and haven't had an issue with it (maybe aside of Hail of Bullets having the standardized 90 second base recharge on Sents and it not being proportional to the recharge relationship between hail of bullets on other ATs when compared against most nukes, but since the OPs DP experience is limited to lvl 15, I'm not sure if he's ready to discuss the nuke yet).

[BlakeTheDrake]

I skipped suppressive fire since it's a hold, and I was desperate for more damage... but my impression may be mistaken. Perhaps I'll try a respec.

 

7 hours ago, DrunkFlux said:

 

Firstly, you've only leveled up to 15, you don't even have SO-enhancements(or equivilent IOs) yet.  And not to mention procs if you decide to use them.  Also why not play a different character to level 50, save up a ton of influence and then transfer it to the struggling DP toon?  Even then though, why are you playing solo all the time?  Teaming gets you more experience/hour and if you wanna solo the archs consider using Ouroboros to play them after you've leveled up a bunch.  AND teams can provide things like buffs to make up for your weaknesses until your high enough level to hold your own.

 

I mean my first 50 on homecoming was a DP/Time manipulation corruptor, and I had no major difficulty, because teamwork.  I played in teams and debuffed everything in my path, I used PBU to boost farsight(and also sometimes hail of bullets) and make myself and allies ridiculously tough.  Build would probably be even stronger today than back then, in fact.  And in fact i'm starting, of all things, a DP/devices blaster to lately.

I also maxed out a DP/bio sentinel to, and found it rather fun, and probably stronger now due to the sentinel buff.  She wasn't the highest damage but her staying power was amazing, I almost never went down when I was leveling her.

If it still feels like you have problems perhaps reroll a different powerset or archtype.  Honestly, your judging the powerset far to soon, level 15 is again very, very week, most sets are rather weak at that level range.  Some just more than others(looking at you SR on scrapper/stalker).  Either level it up some more OR try something else. 

 

Honestly?  If your going for solo play, i'd recommend scrapper if your new to the game, rather than sentinel.  Many scrapper sets have far higher raw DPS, good burst, and also scrapper secondaries most mature rather quickly(but i'd ask a little on this maybe, some like super reflexes aren't fully online all the way until level 28 on a scrapper, but Bio armor and radiation armor are both very good even at low levels).  Sentinel is far more a niche archtype, it can be great, granted, though it struggles with sets that depend on procs or higher levels to feel fully online compared to the other ranged archtypes.

 

As for all this, though, you're missing my perspective. Suppose your FIRST character on the server is a Dual Pistol Sentinel, because oooh, new archetype! Oooh, dual-wielding handguns! Coool... and as a Blaster with Extra Defense, the Sentinel certainly LOOKS perfectly solo-capable - indeed it IS, with most other main powersets. The character creation interface TELLS you that it's capable of running solo, and terms it as a 'Ranged Damage' class, not support.

 

Now suppose you picked the 'Praetorian' starting option because oooh, a whole new SIDE!

 

Yeah, good luck getting a team together over there with any kind of regularity. And you don't have a higher-level alt who can fund you. Sure, you can just roll up another character, on blueside, and play them up to high levels, then use them to 'fund' your Sentinel and get it maxed-out SOs in order to compensate for the weakness of its attacks... which is exactly what I've done, and I'm having a blast with my Level 50 Mastermind, and several other characters in the 20's and 30's. Does that really detract from my point, though? If you need to do that, there's something wrong with the powerset.

 

But, I restate once again: There's nothing wrong with the set as a primary for CORRUPTORS. Or a secondary for Defenders. With those classes, you're going to be team-focused regardless, so the debuffs and AoE that Dual Pistols offer are a fine match. It's just a poor match for the Blaster or Sentinel, especially since there's nothing that, at a glance, tells you that "This powerset will turn you into a team-focused pseudo-support instead of a primary DPS."

Edited February 2 by BlakeTheDrake

[Psyonico]

Suppressive Fire does good damage on sentinels, I wouldn't skip it.

[arcane]

Please do not judge powersets prior to fully leveling and slotting them.

[Luminara]

It activates the Swap Ammo power.  It does this whenever it's needed.

 

It activates the Swap Ammo power or else it gets the hose again.

[Curveball]

DP is rough before you get swap ammo. Also, the animations can also be a little awkward - they don't really flow into each other (or if they do I haven't figured out the correct order yet) so it can sometimes feel like there are pauses between each attack, which is psychologically frustrating even if it isn't actually affecting your overall performance.

[nzer]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Please do not judge powersets prior to fully leveling and slotting them.

 

Performance during leveling is a perfectly legitimate concern for anyone who isn't going to farm-sit the character to level 50, which is basically everyone. I would actually argue that for a lot of players performance during leveling is more important than performance at endgame, and I think the game is already fairly rife with sets that are strong at 50 with high investment but an absolute slog prior.

 

Not to say that there's anything wrong with DP, but let's not take a stance of dismissing the opinions of anyone who isn't at 50 with an expensive build.

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, nzer said:

 

Performance during leveling is a perfectly legitimate concern for anyone who isn't going to farm-sit the character to level 50, which is basically everyone. I would actually argue that for a lot of players performance during leveling is more important than performance at endgame, and I think the game is already fairly rife with sets that are strong at 50 with high investment but an absolute slog prior.

 

Not to say that there's anything wrong with DP, but let's not take a stance of dismissing the opinions of anyone who isn't at 50 with an expensive build.

I just think it’s a rather fruitless exercise once you’ve acknowledged that everyone and everything sucks before 50+1. Pointing out that a set/build is struggling prior to that is just pointing out that the sky is blue.

[Jacke]

3 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

I skipped suppressive fire since it's a hold, and I was desperate for more damage... but my impression may be mistaken. Perhaps I'll try a respec.

 

Before choosing or skipping a power, you should always look at the information to judge them.

• "/linkinfo <powername>" in-game.
• City of Data 2.
• Even Mids Reborn (damage numbers are fairly accurate).

See how fast is the cast Arcanatime, how much damage they do, even if they they have a mez, other details.

 

One of the common changes over the years is to take mez-only powers in Range and Melee powersets and rebalance them with decent damage.  Example: Dark Melee's Siphon Life used to do little damage and Touch of Fear did none (but was often in builds to help Dark Melee Scrappers take on tough enemies by putting the fear of death iinto them...and fulfilling it. 😺)  Now they're both major damage dealers.

[DrunkFlux]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

I just think it’s a rather fruitless exercise once you’ve acknowledged that everyone and everything sucks before 50+1. Pointing out that a set/build is struggling prior to that is just pointing out that the sky is blue.

It's not so much that but knowing what your getting at each level range and how to make the most of it:

Assuming NOT playing in +4 teams such as PI 54 or AE:

 

1-15:  Assuming you get enhancements yeah, your at DO's likely.  Beginners luck runs out around 20 but the base bonus accuracy helps.  Low damage due to not being able to slot properly.  ALL powersets suck at this point.  Your main talents are not fully online 'yet'.  Usually you end up taking both tier 1 and 2 powers if your concerned about power here.

15-22:  The crunch, still on crappy enhancements, enemies are getting a bit tougher.  Things are almost online, but not quite.  Some sets don't come fully online yet, some do.  DP is usually mostly online, barring its tier 9.  Respeccing early 'here' isn't a bad idea necessarily if only to get rid of redundant attacks and tighten your slotting a little.
22-30:  Everything looks spread thin or your loading all your damage abilities, saccing survivability on a sentinel.  However, your overall build concept is "online" now, just underslotted.  It only gets better from here.  Respeccing into something comparable to the final build becomes very viable if you have it fully planned out in mids.
30-40:  Slotting finally fills out to be reasonable, still not IO'd but at least now your seeing a significant power increase.

40-50:  Build becomes even more powerful due to slotting, tertiary/filler powers such as leadership/fighting is taken depending on what hasn't been taken already.

50+1: Your able to contribute to 54 teams efficiently regardless of archtype, your damage effectively doubles over sidekicked to 49 due to going from fighting -5 vs your enemies to only -3.  And course other incarnate powers.  And no need to slot new enhancements/replace SO's and so your able to start thinking about full sets or proc spamming.

 

There IS a major power curve here that EVERYONE goes through, even the most powerful sets and set combinations experience this.  I think only support classes can see a significant improvement in overall power contribution at the lower levels, including the VEATS.  Non support classes and tanks generally depend entirely on themselves for there performance, and so aren't as able to contribute to a team as much, but are more effective solo compared to support.  But its also down to WHERE you put what slots you have to work with, some builds are weaker at lower levels than others and sometimes making a build with low levels in mind, if even only temporary, isn't a bad idea to account for that.

 

[DrunkFlux]

7 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

I skipped suppressive fire since it's a hold, and I was desperate for more damage... but my impression may be mistaken. Perhaps I'll try a respec.

 

 

As for all this, though, you're missing my perspective. Suppose your FIRST character on the server is a Dual Pistol Sentinel, because oooh, new archetype! Oooh, dual-wielding handguns! Coool... and as a Blaster with Extra Defense, the Sentinel certainly LOOKS perfectly solo-capable - indeed it IS, with most other main powersets. The character creation interface TELLS you that it's capable of running solo, and terms it as a 'Ranged Damage' class, not support.

 

Now suppose you picked the 'Praetorian' starting option because oooh, a whole new SIDE!

 

Yeah, good luck getting a team together over there with any kind of regularity. And you don't have a higher-level alt who can fund you. Sure, you can just roll up another character, on blueside, and play them up to high levels, then use them to 'fund' your Sentinel and get it maxed-out SOs in order to compensate for the weakness of its attacks... which is exactly what I've done, and I'm having a blast with my Level 50 Mastermind, and several other characters in the 20's and 30's. Does that really detract from my point, though? If you need to do that, there's something wrong with the powerset.

 

But, I restate once again: There's nothing wrong with the set as a primary for CORRUPTORS. Or a secondary for Defenders. With those classes, you're going to be team-focused regardless, so the debuffs and AoE that Dual Pistols offer are a fine match. It's just a poor match for the Blaster or Sentinel, especially since there's nothing that, at a glance, tells you that "This powerset will turn you into a team-focused pseudo-support instead of a primary DPS."

 

You picked praetorian side as a new player?  Yeah they are putting in a warning in the upcoming update about that.  Gold side is very, very hard compared to blue/red side.  I often say its for experts only who know well in advance high strength powerset combinations. 

 

I get it a bit not all sets are equal, Dual pistols IS a middle-performer overall atm, due to activation time flows.  Dual pistols though isn't a "late bloomer" and you did reply about the hold power, yes, never, EVER dismiss a power in a set especially if your using it for the first time.  Theres often what we call "hidden gems" in some power sets on some classes.  Dual pistols suppressive fire on sentinels is one of those.  After you've hit higher levels then you get a feel for the chains and whats effective/skippable and can respec and fine tune a build to get more out of the set combination.

 

Also, holds can prevent a TON of damage even if they are low damage, they are great for applying "Active defense"; defensive measures that cripple/disable enemies through cc effects and raw debuffs.  Ice blasters know this all to well, they rely almost exclusively on active defense to survive; both the holds are the powersets most powerful attack and blizzard debuffs to-hit.

 

In fact, hardest experience is to play a support class gold side, I even started a support toon there and had to specifically build for it to get through.

 

Also, sentinels are not blasters with extra defense, but blasters who sacrifice the high damage melee/utility secondary for a defense set.  Sentinels lose a lot of damage and often utility that can include holds for that, ironicly, they get attacked more compared to a blaster who also uses the melee attacks and so defeats the enemies quicker or cripples them so they get attacked even less.  I actually found sentinels are very strong WITH DP, though, and is potentially brutal with defense-focused secondaries thanks to luck of the gambler later, you can then simply load up on procs in DP attacks with reckless abandonment, have high defense AND high proc damage with very solid global recharge.

[Riverdusk]

10 hours ago, BlakeTheDrake said:

I skipped suppressive fire since it's a hold, and I was desperate for more damage... but my impression may be mistaken. Perhaps I'll try a respec.

 

 

 

 

That explains everything then.  If you use it with fire or ice ammo it is a hold that also does solid damage, a decent amount more damage than either pistols or dual wield powers.  The hold is just a nice side effect really.  It also lowers its recharge to 8 seconds.  You then have an actual solid single target attack chain by level 8 as well as more safety.  

 

No wonder you thought it was terrible at low levels.  Like I said, the description on the power is misleading and I think the important bits about damage are cut off unless you activate the detailed info button, so figured that's what the issue might be.

 

Here's the rest of what gets cut off on the description of the power:

 

● Significantly higher damage and boss-stopping hold if 'Cryo Ammo' is loaded.
● Significantly higher damage and minor hold if 'Incendiary Ammo' is loaded.
● Somewhat increased damage and long duration hold if 'Chemical Ammo' is loaded.

Edited February 3 by Riverdusk

[BlakeTheDrake]

Hmm... I suppose it may simply be down to unfamiliarity with the set, then. And teething-troubles, in a sense. Returning to a complex game like this after literal decades away, it can be easy to be overwhelmed by the sense of familiarity and assume that you have a better grip on it than you really do. I do, indeed, remember the Melee/Blasting 'hold' type powers dealing low-to-nil damage. I DID see the bit in the description of Suppressive Fire about it dealing 'significantly higher damage' with certain ammo-types, but between the name and basic description making it clear that it was was CC ability, I just figured it'd be one of those times where you get a significant PERCENTUAL boost to what is still a tiny absolute number. "Oh, with this ammo, it deals +200% damage! So 3 damage instead of 1..."

 

With this information, yes, things look a lot cleaner. Getting a potent single-target attack at EIGHT instead of EIGHTEEN makes a huge difference... I'll respec the character and try playing it some more, see if it doesn't feel a bit better.

 

The whole thing about 'all powers suck at 1-15', though, I can't agree with. I'm not making these judgements in a vacuum, after all. I've got 10 characters by now, all different Archetypes - that is my basis for comparison, and out of all of them, the Dual Pistols set is the only one I've really bounced off of. I had some trouble getting to grips with the Arachnos Soldier right at first, too, but that's likely just because it, like the Kheldian HEATs, is designed primarily for team play. Everything else I've tried has played just fine, including soloing at lower levels.

Edited February 3 by BlakeTheDrake