The Philotic Knight's Buff Force Fields 1.0!

[_NOPE_]

Shamelessly inspired by Trickshooter's thread, I'd like to present my suggestions for buffing/changing my favorite set.

 

My experience is that of a Mainoholic. I've played almost nothing BUT FF/Elec for the better part of 6 YEARS, recreating my namesake on EVERY server (deleting and recreating multiple times on Freedom, Justice, Guardian, and Virtue after I got him to 50). All in all, I estimate that I've played Force Fields for at LEAST a THOUSAND levels (Ten-ish servers times 50 levels, times recreating on a few other servers several times over). So, I know this set INTIMATELY. I've played on teams, solo, task forces, trials, PuGs, Hami Raids... every possible situation... minus PvP. That's my experience. I like to think I'm qualified to speak on this.

 

Now, I know I've said in the past many MANY times that Force Fields is fine as-is... well it IS. It's FINE. But that's all that it is, it's fine. It's not overpowered, it's not amazing. It's... just.... fine. Well, do we want fine, or do we want our sets to be AMAZING and fun to play with? This is me admitting that my favorite set is in fact NOT perfect, and could use some... adjustments.

 

So here's what I suggest with these powers from the perspective of a Force Field Defender. I can't speak to the set under other ATs, so I'm assuming that the Defender also has a blast set that does 2/3rds the damage of a Blaster (minus Vigilance bonus). This is going with the design philosophy of "only make the bare minimum changes that require the least amount of work to accomplish". So, it'll be mostly number tweaking. I don't KNOW the actual numbers, so I won't be talking straight numbers, but rather relative numbers. And I made these decisions all based on "feel" and intuition, rather than any sort of min/maxing, because that's how I roll. These suggestions are COLOR CODED to match what I feel are the extent of the power changes.

 

• Personal Force Field - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. I love the new "can interact with things in the world, but it makes it suppressed but doesn't de-toggle". I don't know if SCoRE added this, or if it was added after I left in 2010, but it's AWESOME.
• Deflection Shield - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. I love the new "AoE" aspect to the power. I don't know if SCoRE added this, or if it was added after I left in 2010, but it's AWESOME.
• Force Bolt - This is a beautiful power for what it does, but I've found that at higher levels, there's less and less reason to use it, especially after I get Repulsion Field. So, let's make it more useful throughout the character's career. Ramp up the minuscule damage to that of a Tier 1 Blast power, and add a chance to disorient. Basically, I want this to become a "clone" of the "new" Repulsion Bomb, but single target and STILL does Knockback by default rather than Knockdown (someone can slot the KB>KD IO if they want to drop it down). Since it's a precision power, let's give it just a little more "oomph" and utility by upping it's power a bit and just a LITTLE bit more control to it. Force Field Defenders are NOT known for adding damage to a team... well, let's change that, just a little bit. Let's make this power useful in a standard attack chain, and it will also make it more useful for FF solo-ers.
• Insulation Shield - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. I love the new "AoE" aspect to the power. I don't know if SCoRE added this, or if it was added after I left in 2010, but it's AWESOME.
• Detention Field - The "glass dome of DOOM" needs to change the way it works. I think this is the most problematic ability of the set. Either take off the "intangibility" aspect entirely and just change the effect into a regular "hold" while keeping the glass dome animation, OR reduce the length of the effect to a quarter of what it is. Modern CoX teams move TOO quick for this power to be useful as-is on teams, as most teams have already obliterated the rest of the mobs well before it releases, and they end up sitting there frustrated waiting for it to lift. Also, bump up the Immobilize mag to make it a PERFECT immobilize that will root ANY mob all the way up to AV to the spot, if you don't want to make it a Hold, that is.
• Dispersion Bubble - Don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does.
• Repulsion Field - Drop the toggle endurance cost by half. Otherwise, don't touch it, it's PERFECT for what it does. It can just be a bit pricey to keep up at all times. The fact that ranged attackers are not stopped by this power, and melee attackers can still usually get a swipe in before being knocked back makes this already a well balanced power. Let's just make it a bit cheaper to keep on at all times, with the other toggles this set has in it.
• Repulsion Bomb - Bump the damage to that of a Blaster Tier 3 Blast, or a Blaster Tier 1 AoE attack damage, like Fire Ball (minus the DoT of course). Let's make this feel like a BOMB. Since you get this at level 26, let's make the damage at LEAST as strong as the damage a Blaster would get from their level 12 power. Mobs should feel it, a bit. Otherwise, leave everything else alone, Castle left this in a good place, but I feel like Force Fields just needs a little more damage "oomph", and this would help, alot.
• Force Bubble - This one is simple, for a Force Field Defender. The effect is AWESOME. It's a truly Gandalf "you shall not PASS" power. It's just got two problems - it's not strong enough, and it's too damn big. Let's fix both. Reduce the size of the bubble to a quarter of what it is... to about half the size of Dispersion Field, and increase the MAG of the Repel effect by a factor of maybe... two? I don't know what number should be there, but this is the effect that I want NOTHING should be able to push through this bubble all the way up to the Defender EXCEPT an AV. Period. As the ultimate power in the set, it should feel POWERFUL. Thus, I think it should have a SUBSTANTIALLY smaller diameter, but have a stronger force/power to keep things OUT of that diameter.

 

And that, is how I would buff Force Fields. Make it a set that's more useful in more situations and is beyond fine, is amazing, just like many other sets out there, while NOT replacing any powers with new powers or animations, just tweaking some numbers. What say you... did I go too far? Not far enough? /JRanger? Please suggest your own changes in this thread if you wish. My one stipulation is this - please keep in my design philosophy and The Cottage Rule and DO NOT replace powers wholesale with newly constructed powers. This is CoX Force Fields. If you want it to be another set entirely, or to change almost everything about it, then make your own thread and suggest your own new set.

Edited March 10, 2020 by The Philotic Knight
Had to fix the formatting since the forum moved to the new format

[Vanden]

Detention Field should be a toggle. The tech exists to have powers still affect intangible targets, so there's no good reason to keep it a click. You lose the ability to make it perma, but as it stands one full duration of the power is already too long, plus as a toggle it won't wear off faster against higher-level enemies.

 

I honestly don't think Force Bubble can be fixed by simple numbers. The reason it's so massive is because it needs to be, otherwise enemies could push in against it long enough to still get melee hits off against players inside it.

[_NOPE_]

Not if you increase the MAG of the Repel effect. Then it'd work just fine. Unless the Repel effect doesn't work the way I think it does.... and yes, I could TOTALLY dig Detention Field as a toggle, that would be just fine as well!

[Vanden]

Not if you increase the MAG of the Repel effect. Then it'd work just fine. Unless the Repel effect doesn't work the way I think it does.... and yes, I could TOTALLY dig Detention Field as a toggle, that would be just fine as well!

 

It's a discussion I remember from the Live forums. Apparently it's got to do with the tick rate of the servers or something, it's just too low for a power like Force Bubble to keep out faster enemies if it's too small. Even now fast enough foes can push into it.

[Trickshooter]

+1

 

I also have a couple suggestions from my Big Ol' Spreadsheet of Support Powers:

 

Deflection Shield - Add Scale 0.5 unenhanceable Defense Debuff Resistance (so 21.65% for Defenders at level 50, 17.3% for Controllers/Corruptors, 13% for MM)

 

Insulation Shield - Add 50% Recharge/Slow Resistance

 

Force Bubble - Add a base 20% Damage Debuff (so 25% for Defenders, 20% for Controllers/Corruptors, 15% for MM) so Force Bubble has an effect that works on enemies that resist the Repel

[PaxArcana]

All of this applies to Masterminds as well, of course - though we get some of the powers in a different order.

 

I agree 110% with the joy that is "one cast, whole team" for the Shields.  As an MM, it makes "gearing up" so much faster, simpler, less-tedious, and waaaaay more END-friendly.  And I'm still at only four robots, not the full six!!

 

For Forcebolt, I have another suggestion.  In addition to the usual knockBACK, what about also adding a massive KnockDOWN to it?  So things you can't send flying, you can at least put them off their feet?

 

I LOVE the idea of Detention Field being a toggle!!  So far I've been avoiding it on my Robo/FF

 

...

 

But I'm going to disagree with the suggestions for Repulsion Bomb.  not because I think it's okay - I don't, I think it's crap - but because I want to go in a completely different direction with it.

 

Literally.

 

I want to rename it Implosion, have it work exactly as it does now .... but, in a much larger area, and instead of knocking everything away from it's center, knock things TOWARDS the center!  ForceField has three other "get away from me" powers (Repulsion Field, Forcebolt, & Forcefield).  It really never needed a fourth.  So how about we give it a brand-new tool: a way to CLUMP UP enemies, to gather them into a smaller area.  A way to set them up for an AoE attack (by a team-mate, by an MM's pets, from an APP or EPP, whatever).

[hastened]

I think that one of FF's biggest problems is that it lacks any form of damage resistance debuffing, -Regen or +Damage.  It is the only defender primary that can't meaningfully assist in boosting a team's offensive capabilities at all.  The other problem is that Detention Field is situational enough that it is never used.

 

I would probably look at trying to buff Detention Field, though while looking into it, I realized that I don't actually know how it currently works on AVs and stuff.  Can AVs resist the untouchable effect?  It doesn't look like its listed as something they resist on the purple triangles wiki page, but its such a rarely used effect that I'm not actually sure if it just got ignored or what.

[Trickshooter]

I want to rename it Implosion, have it work exactly as it does now .... but, in a much larger area, and instead of knocking everything away from it's center, knock things TOWARDS the center!  ForceField has three other "get away from me" powers (Repulsion Field, Forcebolt, & Forcefield).  It really never needed a fourth.  So how about we give it a brand-new tool: a way to CLUMP UP enemies, to gather them into a smaller area.  A way to set them up for an AoE attack (by a team-mate, by an MM's pets, from an APP or EPP, whatever).

 

I think the game doesn't have a way to easily brings things together without it being like a secret Teleport. Both Repel and Knockback only seem to work away from the caster.

[Galaxy Brain]

No +absorb anywhere?

[Vanden]

I want to rename it Implosion, have it work exactly as it does now .... but, in a much larger area, and instead of knocking everything away from it's center, knock things TOWARDS the center!  ForceField has three other "get away from me" powers (Repulsion Field, Forcebolt, & Forcefield).  It really never needed a fourth.  So how about we give it a brand-new tool: a way to CLUMP UP enemies, to gather them into a smaller area.  A way to set them up for an AoE attack (by a team-mate, by an MM's pets, from an APP or EPP, whatever).

 

I think the game doesn't have a way to easily brings things together without it being like a secret Teleport. Both Repel and Knockback only seem to work away from the caster.

 

Mathwise, it's trivial to code "knock-towards" and "reverse repel" if you've already coded knockback and regular repel, you just swap the positions of the target and the caster in the formula. That might not translate to being easy to implement of course. But for reverse knockback, there'd be nothing to stop the target from simply flying over the origin point of the knockback and ending up farther away that it started.

[Trickshooter]

I want to rename it Implosion, have it work exactly as it does now .... but, in a much larger area, and instead of knocking everything away from it's center, knock things TOWARDS the center!  ForceField has three other "get away from me" powers (Repulsion Field, Forcebolt, & Forcefield).  It really never needed a fourth.  So how about we give it a brand-new tool: a way to CLUMP UP enemies, to gather them into a smaller area.  A way to set them up for an AoE attack (by a team-mate, by an MM's pets, from an APP or EPP, whatever).

 

I think the game doesn't have a way to easily brings things together without it being like a secret Teleport. Both Repel and Knockback only seem to work away from the caster.

 

Mathwise, it's trivial to code "knock-towards" and "reverse repel," you just swap the positions of the target and the caster in the formula. That might not translate to being easy to implement of course. But for reverse knockback, there'd be nothing to stop the target from simply flying over the origin point of the knockback and ending up farther away that it started.

 

But I'm not sure if the game engine can do that with the current implementation of the Knockback effect. It doesn't know where the knockback came from, only who the knockback came from, and it goes outwards from that direction. That's why if you throw Explosive Blast in to the middle of a group, even the ones in front of the blast point still fly backwards from your direction. I feel like knockback would need to be reworked in order to make it function another way. I would guess that reverse-knockback in the current engine would only be understood as knockback protection.

[Solvernia]

Yes please! I would really like my FF/Energy defender, Pinball Wizard, to be viable.

 

[AkuTenshiiZero]

One of my endgame villains on live was a Bots/FF Mastermind, so I am intimately familiar with the set.

 

The "AoE" aspect of the timed-buff powers was added by Paragon, as was the case for all timed buffs with negligible cooldowns.  They realized that spending half a minute buffing your whole team one-by-one was dumb and made them targeted AoEs instead.

 

As for Detention Field, I STRONGLY disagree.  This power is working precisely as it needs to, because Intangibility bypasses mez protection.  This is not intended to be something you use regularly, it's an emergency method of shutting out an enemy who is wiping your team.  If it was a Hold, it would be subject to mez protection.

 

I am on the fence about the others.  I never cared much about FF power damage, I had an army of robots for that.  Force Bolt is a great way to effectively take someone out of the fight by repeatedly jacking them up against a wall.  Repulsion Bomb is sort of meh, it's about on par with comparable targeted AoE knockdowns/disorients like Fault or Dark Pit.  Repulsion Field does it's job, I'm not sure improving it would be a good idea because it might end up gamebreaking.

[Trickshooter]

Yes please! I would really like my FF/Energy defender, Pinball Wizard, to be viable.

 

 

It will never be viable until you drop the Flight pool for Speed and take Whirlwind.

[_NOPE_]

For Forcebolt, I have another suggestion.  In addition to the usual knockBACK, what about also adding a massive KnockDOWN to it?  So things you can't send flying, you can at least put them off their feet?

You can't do that, because knockback/knockdown are the SAME effect, just at a different magnitude. The threshold for KB-KD has been estimated at 0.75.

 

But I'm going to disagree with the suggestions for Repulsion Bomb.  not because I think it's okay - I don't, I think it's crap - but because I want to go in a completely different direction with it.

 

Literally.

 

I want to rename it Implosion, have it work exactly as it does now .... but, in a much larger area, and instead of knocking everything away from it's center, knock things TOWARDS the center!  ForceField has three other "get away from me" powers (Repulsion Field, Forcebolt, & Forcefield).  It really never needed a fourth.  So how about we give it a brand-new tool: a way to CLUMP UP enemies, to gather them into a smaller area.  A way to set them up for an AoE attack (by a team-mate, by an MM's pets, from an APP or EPP, whatever).

/JRanger. Cottage Rule. Add that to another new powerset, please.

[Vanden]

I want to rename it Implosion, have it work exactly as it does now .... but, in a much larger area, and instead of knocking everything away from it's center, knock things TOWARDS the center!  ForceField has three other "get away from me" powers (Repulsion Field, Forcebolt, & Forcefield).  It really never needed a fourth.  So how about we give it a brand-new tool: a way to CLUMP UP enemies, to gather them into a smaller area.  A way to set them up for an AoE attack (by a team-mate, by an MM's pets, from an APP or EPP, whatever).

 

I think the game doesn't have a way to easily brings things together without it being like a secret Teleport. Both Repel and Knockback only seem to work away from the caster.

 

Mathwise, it's trivial to code "knock-towards" and "reverse repel" if you've already coded knockback and regular repel, you just swap the positions of the target and the caster in the formula. That might not translate to being easy to implement of course. But for reverse knockback, there'd be nothing to stop the target from simply flying over the origin point of the knockback and ending up farther away that it started.

 

But I'm not sure if the game engine can do that with the current implementation of the Knockback effect. It doesn't know where the knockback came from, only who the knockback came from, and it goes outwards from that direction. That's why if you throw Explosive Blast in to the middle of a group, even the ones in front of the blast point still fly backwards from your direction. I feel like knockback would need to be reworked in order to make it function another way. I would guess that reverse-knockback in the current engine would only be understood as knockback protection.

 

Explosive Blast works exactly as I described. It knocks the targets away from the caster (you).

[_NOPE_]

I think that one of FF's biggest problems is that it lacks any form of damage resistance debuffing, -Regen or +Damage.  It is the only defender primary that can't meaningfully assist in boosting a team's offensive capabilities at all.

Hence my suggestion for damage buffs to Force Bolt and Repulsion Bomb.

 

The other problem is that Detention Field is situational enough that it is never used.

 

I would probably look at trying to buff Detention Field, though while looking into it, I realized that I don't actually know how it currently works on AVs and stuff.  Can AVs resist the untouchable effect?  It doesn't look like its listed as something they resist on the purple triangles wiki page, but its such a rarely used effect that I'm not actually sure if it just got ignored or what.

AFAIK, it's not resistable, except with the standard Accuracy/Defense levels, since it's treated as an attack in that calcuation. AFAIK, if it "hits", it cannot be resisted. I might be wrong about that though, I'm not a numbers guy.

[_NOPE_]

No +absorb anywhere?

 

What is absorb? I've never heard of this mechanic before, was it added after 2010? What does it do? I don't see a ParagonWiki article for it, though I see the name referenced in IOs.

[_NOPE_]

As for Detention Field, I STRONGLY disagree.  This power is working precisely as it needs to, because Intangibility bypasses mez protection.  This is not intended to be something you use regularly, it's an emergency method of shutting out an enemy who is wiping your team.  If it was a Hold, it would be subject to mez protection.

If, as Vanden says, there's tech in the game somewhere that lets intangibility only apply to the character and not to enemies... I'm fine with keeping the intangible.. GREAT! If not... I'd rather have either a hold, or better yet make it a toggle so that we can decide when it stops being affected. The toggle idea is really starting to grow on me.

 

[Trickshooter]

I want to rename it Implosion, have it work exactly as it does now .... but, in a much larger area, and instead of knocking everything away from it's center, knock things TOWARDS the center!  ForceField has three other "get away from me" powers (Repulsion Field, Forcebolt, & Forcefield).  It really never needed a fourth.  So how about we give it a brand-new tool: a way to CLUMP UP enemies, to gather them into a smaller area.  A way to set them up for an AoE attack (by a team-mate, by an MM's pets, from an APP or EPP, whatever).

 

I think the game doesn't have a way to easily brings things together without it being like a secret Teleport. Both Repel and Knockback only seem to work away from the caster.

 

Mathwise, it's trivial to code "knock-towards" and "reverse repel" if you've already coded knockback and regular repel, you just swap the positions of the target and the caster in the formula. That might not translate to being easy to implement of course. But for reverse knockback, there'd be nothing to stop the target from simply flying over the origin point of the knockback and ending up farther away that it started.

 

But I'm not sure if the game engine can do that with the current implementation of the Knockback effect. It doesn't know where the knockback came from, only who the knockback came from, and it goes outwards from that direction. That's why if you throw Explosive Blast in to the middle of a group, even the ones in front of the blast point still fly backwards from your direction. I feel like knockback would need to be reworked in order to make it function another way. I would guess that reverse-knockback in the current engine would only be understood as knockback protection.

 

Explosive Blast works exactly as I described. It knocks the targets away from the caster (you).

 

Sorry, I misinterpreted what you meant by "origin point of the knockback".

[Trickshooter]

No +absorb anywhere?

 

What is absorb? I've never heard of this mechanic before, was it added after 2010? What does it do? I don't see a ParagonWiki article for it, though I see the name referenced in IOs.

 

Absorb is like a shield of HP over your actual HP. It's a white bar that layers over your HP bar. The amount of Absorb on you must reach 0 before your HP will start depleting from an attack.

 

It was added with the Magisterium Trial, I think? Or possibly with a proc. The first powerset to have it on Live was Nature Affinity, which was also the last powerset released.

[Vanden]

As for Detention Field, I STRONGLY disagree.  This power is working precisely as it needs to, because Intangibility bypasses mez protection.  This is not intended to be something you use regularly, it's an emergency method of shutting out an enemy who is wiping your team.  If it was a Hold, it would be subject to mez protection.

 

If, as Vanden says, there's tech in the game somewhere that lets intangibility only apply to the character and not to enemies... I'm fine with keeping the intangible.. GREAT! If not... I'd rather have either a hold, or better yet make it a toggle so that we can decide when it stops being affected. The toggle idea is really starting to grow on me.

 

The tech definitely exists; Hamidon is capable of killing the otherwise invincible Phantom Army with his attacks.

[Galaxy Brain]

No +absorb anywhere?

 

What is absorb? I've never heard of this mechanic before, was it added after 2010? What does it do? I don't see a ParagonWiki article for it, though I see the name referenced in IOs.

 

Absorb is like a shield of HP over your actual HP. It's a white bar that layers over your HP bar. The amount of Absorb on you must reach 0 before your HP will start depleting from an attack.

 

It was added with the Magisterium Trial, I think? Or possibly with a proc. The first powerset to have it on Live was Nature Affinity, which was also the last powerset released.

 

Correct, a multitude of power sets have this now and its thematically perfect for force field!

 

Essentially it is temporary HP that attacks must eat through in order to actually hurt you, that also does not interact with Max Hp. A character at the HP cap can still have a bunch of +absorb put onto them  (though it wont boost regen, etc). A FF power that gave a bit of this would be nice, perhaps on the two basic shields so you could re-apply if need be, since the theme is that enemies attack the shield and not the person.

 

[_NOPE_]

I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I'd be wary, Cottage Rule and all... I'd have to think about it.

[Trickshooter]

We're confusing several effects here.

 

Intangibility is one status effect used by Phase Shift, Dimensional Shift and Black Hole. Intangible players can attack Intangible enemies and vice versa. Phantom Army use Intangibility, I think, so that probably has to do with why Hamidon can defeat them.

 

Untouchable/OnlyAffectSelf are two status effects used together by Detention Field and Sonic Cage. There is no way to interact with someone in this state and no way to enhance it. Why they don't just use Intangibility, I don't know.