Allow more than one power to be on auto activate at a time.

[nzer]

Again, I don't see what's bizarre about that. Arguing that the "auto-ness" of the game is already a matter of degree seems completely reasonable to me.

 

If colorful examples are all it takes to scare you away from an argument, I guess I may end up using more of them.

[Rudra]

10 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Thank you. I forgot that one.

Welcome. Don't feel bad though. I had to go to City of Data and search through all 11 armors to find it. So that's 3 out of 11 armors with click mez protection. (Edit: Which I guess goes to show differences in lines in the sand, since I don't consider 3 to be "many".)

Edited February 21 by Rudra

[Shenanigunner]

2 hours ago, nzer said:

The solution to this is to absentmindedly spam the keys constantly, which is a degenerate play pattern that shouldn't be encouraged.

 

I can't find a single thing you've posted in this thread that corresponds to reality. Seriously. You have some vague imagining that the game controls are some esoteric product of the devs, but rail against using keybinds that are just different implementations of the same thing. And, like many players, just want unlimited power control/application without any real grasp of how those limitations shape the game for every player who isn't a mad end-game. massively-slotted, 50-is-just-the-beginning player.

 

There is substantial difference between automated control — which the game has in only the most limited sense, auto-fire being about 65% of it — and gaming the control system a little to use user input to emulate automation. Which is perfectly valid but not the same as go-have-lunch-while-your-alt-levels scripting or automation. (Nor that hard, overall. Far easier than the extreme effort put into tweaking Incarnate builds, IMHO.)

 

So, best of luck to you having the Devs magically craft the perfect fixes here. Or... something.

Edited February 21 by Shenanigunner

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, nzer said:

I don't have any idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

One of the balancing factors in this game is power availability.  Auto powers add a constant small improvement to a character, for example, one which cannot ordinarily be removed by NPCs.  Click powers are stronger than auto or toggle powers, so their availability more controlled.  They have endurance costs, they have recharge times, they have ranges, and they have other limitations, such as not being able to set multiple click powers to auto-fire.  They're stronger, so they're not guaranteed to be available at all times.  In fact, they're expected to be unavailable at some times.  That's the purpose of recharge times, ranges, endurance costs, and not having multiple powers set to auto.

 

Another aspect of balance is how we utilize our options to respond to risk.  When we're locked in combat, cycling through our attack chain, we have to make decisions, such as whether to continue attacking and ride out the risk of being defeated, or pause and activate a power to prevent what we believe to be imminent failure.  Do we want to use this heal, or are the benefits of a damage mitigation buff superior?  What about a damage buff, would it provide the edge we need to reduce the number of enemies around us in time for our HP pool to begin filling up again?  That momentary pause, that choice of how to respond to the risk, is one of many aspects that cumulatively give the brainless idiots we beat to a pulp the faintest hint of a chance of defeating us.  Without that, without players having to make any choice beyond, "Pause the attack chain for 0.92s after this attack, pause again for 1.32s after the seventh cycle", the NPCs, which are already crippled by limited scripting, by the game not using something like a cover system, by players having the capability to drop patches/rains around corners simply by angling the camera, by projectiles following enemies around corners and across hundreds of feet, would present even less risk than they do now.

Being limited to setting a single click power to auto-fire is, for balance, no different from being limited to one *PP damage mitigation toggle, or one Miracle +Recovery, or four power pools.  Restrictions like these aren't there to inconvenience the player, they're there to prevent the game from becoming unbalanced.  Choice is one of the ways Cryptic designed balance into the game, while simultaneously retaining as much as they could of the flexibility of the original freeform power selection model they devised in the alpha.  We're given enormous freedom in how we build our characters, but not unlimited, because balancing content requires some basic expectations of character strength and growth.  One of those expectations is that there are limits to automating combat, and that includes automating click powers.

[nzer]

On 2/21/2024 at 6:31 PM, Shenanigunner said:

I can't find a single thing you've posted in this thread that corresponds to reality.

 

I can't find a single thing in this comment that is a response to something I'm arguing. How does anything I'm saying only apply to endgame, slotted-to-the-gills players, and how is asking for two or three autocasts instead of one the same as wanting "unlimited power"?

 

I provided very specific criticisms of the way this is currently accomplished. Do you want to attempt to respond to them at all?

 

On 2/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, Luminara said:

They're stronger, so they're not guaranteed to be available at all times.  In fact, they're expected to be unavailable at some times.  That's the purpose of recharge times, ranges, endurance costs, and not having multiple powers set to auto.

 

Autocast has absolutely nothing to with any of this. If you have enough recharge to make the buff perma, it will be perma whether you're autocasting it or not. If not, it will not be perma whether you're autocasting it or not. The balancing of these powers has nothing to do with whether they can be autocasted, full stop. They're stronger than toggles because you have to invest into them to get more uptime, often to a staggering degree. Toggles, by definition, don't need recharge slotting plus five LotGs plus hasten plus set bonuses to be perma.

 

On 2/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, Luminara said:

Do we want to use this heal, or are the benefits of a damage mitigation buff superior?  What about a damage buff, would it provide the edge we need to reduce the number of enemies around us in time for our HP pool to begin filling up again?  That momentary pause, that choice of how to respond to the risk, is one of many aspects that cumulatively give the brainless idiots we beat to a pulp the faintest hint of a chance of defeating us. 

 

Your conclusion here is so completely backwards. Autocasts remove your ability to decide when to recast a buff, interrupting your attack chain unexpectedly, and you think that makes the player more effective?

 

It doesn't. In fact it is strictly unoptimal, and is purely a convenience.

 

On 2/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, Luminara said:

Restrictions like these aren't there to inconvenience the player, they're there to prevent the game from becoming unbalanced.

 

The only way autocasts could possibly shift the balance of the game in the player's favor is if players are consistently unable to reactivate their click buffs in time without it.

 

Do you think that happens? How far off would you guess the typical player is, on average? Keeping in mind that most builds only have one or two click buffs and that there may be twenty seconds or more between when the ability recharges and when the buff falls off.

Edited February 24 by nzer

[TheZag]

On 2/20/2024 at 11:54 PM, Rudra said:

Could someone give me my unofficial official play police badge please? Thanks.

 

Sorry im late but i got u.

 

 

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, nzer said:

The balancing of these powers has nothing to do with whether they can be autocasted, full stop.

 

Moment of Glory.  Elude.  Light Form.  Unstoppable.

 

4 hours ago, nzer said:

Autocasts remove your ability to decide when to recast a buff, interrupting your attack chain unexpectedly

 

The sequencer prioritizes clicks/keypresses over auto.  If you queue something manually, it always activates next, even if you have a power on auto-fire.  You can experience that for yourself simply by activating a power on an enemy which is out of range and watching your auto-fired power not fire.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Hi guys!  Spirited debates about the game are OK.  Great even. 

 

But let's argue the points and not each other with ad hominems.  Please and thank you.

[Oubliette_Red]

You can have all the autocasts you want as long as they are suppressed near trainers and icon/facemaker locations. The auditory assault while costuming/training is bad enough already. I already have game sound turned down without being completely off, because I do enjoy all the work the devs put into the powers and ambient noises of the city. But the constant fwoom/btzzz/screee/rwar is a bit much, doubling it would be headache inducing.

 

[Shenanigunner]

18 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

You can have all the autocasts you want as long as they are suppressed near trainers and icon/facemaker locations. The auditory assault while costuming/training is bad enough already.

 

There should be a NO PETS ALOUD perimeter of at least 150 feet around trainers and vendors. The clanking thunder of one set of robots is enough to make me mute the game; add a second set and I quit for the day with a headache.

 

That the game can be hacked on this point is irrelevant. All of the pets make too f*cking much pointless noise and should be muted if not silenced in crowd areas.

[nzer]

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

Moment of Glory.  Elude.  Light Form.  Unstoppable.

 

Are you going to make some kind of argument, or am I supposed to read your mind?

 

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

The sequencer prioritizes clicks/keypresses over auto.

 

I'm aware of that, but I don't see how it's relevant. You aren't queuing abilities literally 100% of the time, so there will be moments where something gets delayed because an autocast fired.

 

In fact, this also means your autocasts may not fire right away because you're inadvertently preventing them from firing by queuing abilities, which is yet another way autocast is less optimal than manual activation.

Edited February 24 by nzer

[Shenanigunner]

12 minutes ago, nzer said:

Are you going to make some kind of argument, or am I supposed to read your mind?

 

To be honest, I'm thinking this for most of your posts here. You've made your point. No one agrees with you, for what I see as fairly solid nature-of-game reasons against your "but I wanna!" viewpoint.

 

We ALL have "wannas" but most of us seem to be able to differentiate between the ones that might be reasonable and the ones that will change fundamental aspects of the game — in generally negative ways — for all other users.

 

Quote

I'm aware of that, but I don't see how it's relevant. You aren't queuing abilities literally 100% of the time, so there will be moments where something gets delayed because an autocast fired.

 

I know. I know. If only there was a simple, completely effective workaround short of having the Devs drop everything to break the game for you.

 

Do you want us to form a support group to come over and play the game for you, too? All that button-pushing gets so tedious after a while.

 

 

Edited February 24 by Shenanigunner

[nzer]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

To be honest, I'm thinking this for most of your posts here.

 

I don't see how. I gave you very specific arguments which you are actively choosing not to respond to.

 

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

If only there was a simple, completely effective workaround short of having the Dev drop everything to break the game for you.

 

Do you want us to form a support group to come over and play the game for you, too?

 

The workaround isn't "completely effective." I've already explained why, and instead of responding you decided to act like I'm not making any sense. If you need me to explain something more clearly I'm happy to do so, but you need to tell me what it is you're not understanding first. I don't expect you will though, you seem much more interested in insulting and dismissing people than in having actual discussion.

 

And I don't care whether multiple autocast is implemented, for what it's worth. Most of my characters wouldn't even need it. My problem is people shooting down perfectly reasonable suggestions for silly reasons that don't stand up to even the smallest amount of scrutiny.

 

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

We ALL have "wannas" but most of us seem to be able to differentiate between the ones that might be reasonable and the ones that will change fundamental aspects of the game — in generally negative ways — for all other users.

 

This is so rich coming from someone who literally wrote a guide explaining how to mimic multiple autocasts with binds. By all means, explain how one changes fundamental aspects of the game while the other doesn't.

 

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

No one agrees with you, for what I see as fairly solid nature-of-game reasons

 

I don't think nature-of-game reasons stand up to scrutiny, because the game already gives players tools to significantly automate gameplay.

 

You can, for example, use binds and macros to create a system where by spamming a single key you automatically target enemies, move to them, and cast all your abilities. You can literally create a system in which all you have to do is press F over and over, and the game will mostly play itself.

 

If multiple autocasts aren't allowed because they change the nature of the game, everything that allows for that scenario needs to be removed from the game, but I don't see anyone arguing that, and in fact your own guides explain how to do all of those things.

 

So if it's not a nature-of-game concern, it instead becomes a question of the practical value of restricting the player to a single autocast. And that's something I don't think anyone in this discussion has fielded a compelling argument for.

Edited February 24 by nzer

[PeregrineFalcon]

56 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

There should be a NO PETS ALOUD perimeter of at least 150 feet around trainers and vendors. The clanking thunder of one set of robots is enough to make me mute the game; add a second set and I quit for the day with a headache.

This is why there are trainers in your base. You could even put up a sign saying "No Pets Allowed" in your base if you wanted to.