Powerset Concept: Staff Blast [Working Title]

[Ishiga]

I am a huge fan of the Dual Pistol ammo swap mechanic. Recently I realized there's room for a "wizard" style archetype option given the presence of Blackwand and Nemesis Staff. I propose this:

 

Staff Blast [potentially also, Mage Blast/Sorcerer's Staff]
All powers are natively Smashing/Lethal with various effects depending on the skill. An even balance of AoE and Single Target across the set.

One of the skills is Aspect Swap. It works much like Swap Ammo in that it grants you several toggles that allow you to tack on additional damage types to the rest of the kit (Or replace the lethal damage in the split typing if possible)

Aspect of Fire - Fire dmg + DoT
Aspect of Ice - Cold dmg + slow/freeze
Aspect of Lightning - Energy dmg + End drain

Aspect of the Void - Negative dmg + long duration DoT/To-hit debuffs

 

Mostly just all spitballing ideas, feel free to readjust concepts as needed for balance sake but this would be awesome to see in the future. ♥

Edited March 26 by Ishiga
Typo

[Player2]

Mage Blast and Sorcerer's Staff will definitely draw the ire of some individuals that will rail against anything implied as magical forcing or pigeonholing the set into Magic origin only, but I think a better name than Staff Blast is needed.  Unfortunately, the only example that comes to mind of a non-magical ranged staff blasting attack comes from the Stargate series, and while the weapon is called a Ma'Tok staff, it is primarily referred to in the show's lore as a "staff weapon."

 

I can't think of anything suitable to better describe the set than simply "Staff Blast" that won't make the anti-magic people criticize.

 

 

Now, on to the mechanics.  I like the idea of mimicking the Dual Pistols -> Swap Ammo power, but it's limited to 3 toggles with bonus damage type & effects.  Likewise, the Staff Fighting melee powerset has a 3-toggle alternate effects system with its Staff Mastery power.  I think you're asking for too much flexibility with 4 toggles.  I think it might be an easier sell if you drop Aspect of Lightning and make the default attacks energy based with fire, ice, and negative as the extended bonus damage/effects.

[Ishiga]

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

Mage Blast and Sorcerer's Staff will definitely draw the ire of some individuals that will rail against anything implied as magical forcing or pigeonholing the set into Magic origin only, but I think a better name than Staff Blast is needed.  Unfortunately, the only example that comes to mind of a non-magical ranged staff blasting attack comes from the Stargate series, and while the weapon is called a Ma'Tok staff, it is primarily referred to in the show's lore as a "staff weapon."

 

I can't think of anything suitable to better describe the set than simply "Staff Blast" that won't make the anti-magic people criticize.

 

 

Now, on to the mechanics.  I like the idea of mimicking the Dual Pistols -> Swap Ammo power, but it's limited to 3 toggles with bonus damage type & effects.  Likewise, the Staff Fighting melee powerset has a 3-toggle alternate effects system with its Staff Mastery power.  I think you're asking for too much flexibility with 4 toggles.  I think it might be an easier sell if you drop Aspect of Lightning and make the default attacks energy based with fire, ice, and negative as the extended bonus damage/effects.

Y'know I hadn't even considered the theming of it like that, that's a sound point. Perhaps something less charged like Aether Blast or something along those lines could work to decouple it from any intrinsic origin flavor.

 

Also I wasn't really sure of toggles being limited to 3, nor did I even know Staff fighting had a toggle system like that. Everyone shits on it so I never even looked at the powerset lol Still, limiting it to three is perfectly reasonable. I feel like fire would be the easiest to ditch since fire has plenty of its own preence everywhere else. So Cold, energy, and negative would be more flavorful at the end of the day, plus I feel like negative should get in on the offensive toggle-buff fun here.

 

It also occurred to me that this doesn't really need to be that widely stretched to pull away from the inherent magical lean. The presence of Devices/Traps as a powerset sets plenty of precedent for "origin flavored" powersets. Plus hand-blasting various energies is all inherently magically charged but it's ambivalent to the character in the end, it's just open to interpretaation because it's so generic. So the presence of a "casting focus" in and of itself is the main problem but it's also the entire point. So in this case, I thin Aether Staff might suit the whole thing better, if not best, to let it be something not inherently magical in topical nature enough to let tech-bros have a crack at interpreting it for character concepts.

Edited March 26 by Ishiga

[CrusaderDroid]

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

I can't think of anything suitable to better describe the set than simply "Staff Blast" that won't make the anti-magic people criticize.

Can you not make this a thing in someone else's thread, too? Seriously? Please?

 

4 hours ago, Ishiga said:

One of the skills is Aspect Swap. It works much like Swap Ammo in that it grants you several toggles that allow you to tack on additional damage types to the rest of the kit (Or replace the lethal damage in the split typing if possible)

Aspect of Fire - Fire dmg + DoT
Aspect of Ice - Cold dmg + slow/freeze
Aspect of Lightning - Energy dmg + End drain

Aspect of the Void - Negative dmg + long duration DoT/To-hit debuffs

I'm with you here though, the lack of an "implement" is notable enough that I think we could use a ranged staff weapon. I approve!

 

Bonus: It's just a weapon. Staff-shaped gun/tech thing is totally within reason. It isn't locked to magic.

 

I don't think the ammo swap is the way to go though. That's already Dual Pistols. Different damage types is helpful for getting around some enemies, but I don't think that's enough of a hook by itself.

 

That said, depending on how complex you want it to be, maybe the "aspect" is a temporary effect that modifies your next three power uses or something. It gets close to ammo swap, but this setup lets you use it as part of another damaging ability, so you could do some sort of fiery staff slam that then grants extra fire to your next three attacks. Being able to attack and buff at the same time is pretty big for your action economy.

 

It's a tricky one to get a hook. Keep at it though! Try putting down a few powers - it's easier than you think and helps get people focused on the mechanics instead of getting locked up on only the idea.

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Ishiga said:

Y'know I hadn't even considered the theming of it like that, that's a sound point. Perhaps something less charged like Aether Blast or something along those lines could work to decouple it from any intrinsic origin flavor.

You're fine with Staff Blast. You're more likely to get pushback with Aether Blast. Especially since you are trying for a staff set with ranged attacks. (Edit: After all, the set is about using a staff to shoot things somehow. What could be more descriptive for the set than Staff Blast? And staves aren't bound to any specific origin. Aether, which is an uncommon spelling of ether, has nothing to do with staves.)

Edited March 26 by Rudra

[Ishiga]

30 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You're fine with Staff Blast. You're more likely to get pushback with Aether Blast. Especially since you are trying for a staff set with ranged attacks. (Edit: After all, the set is about using a staff to shoot things somehow. What could be more descriptive for the set than Staff Blast? And staves aren't bound to any specific origin. Aether, which is an uncommon spelling of ether, has nothing to do with staves.)

It doesn't but Staff Blast is hackneyed and just does what it says on the tin well enough to make it clear what kind of thing I'm talking about. Frankly, The name of the powerset is a banal concern in general, but I wanted to be properly considerate of the conceptual issues it'd cause. I know I'd kinda get hung up about it too.

[Ishiga]

37 minutes ago, CrusaderDroid said:

I don't think the ammo swap is the way to go though. That's already Dual Pistols. Different damage types is helpful for getting around some enemies, but I don't think that's enough of a hook by itself.

Honestly, I don't think DP's ammo swap mechanic should be exclusive to it. Very little else in the game has anything as cool as it, and even staff combat's version of it doesn't do the exact same thing but is still a "swap" mechanic at a base level. Besides, it was the only real way to make this idea pop at all, lest it just be any old blast set but with a stick lmao

[CrusaderDroid]

4 minutes ago, Ishiga said:

Honestly, I don't think DP's ammo swap mechanic should be exclusive to it. Very little else in the game has anything as cool as it, and even staff combat's version of it doesn't do the exact same thing but is still a "swap" mechanic at a base level. Besides, it was the only real way to make this idea pop at all, lest it just be any old blast set but with a stick lmao

Sure, sure, hence my proposal, which was "ammo swap but it's only for a few shots". Just different enough to be distinct in gameplay flow without losing the spirit of ammo swap, while opening up opportunities for flashy animations.

[Ishiga]

1 minute ago, CrusaderDroid said:

Sure, sure, hence my proposal, which was "ammo swap but it's only for a few shots". Just different enough to be distinct in gameplay flow without losing the spirit of ammo swap, while opening up opportunities for flashy animations.

Absolutely valid. I was of a mind to make some powers for the list but I'm honestly very tired atm so I didn't feel inclined to go through it all. I sure will though. Also you do have a good idea in mind all the same, I sure don't hate it.

[TheMoneyMaker]

It would be easier to copy the existing mechanic and balance of it than to code a new variant of it that only lasts for a few shots.  Nothing wrong with borrowing against what already works and applying it to a different theme with different effects than what DP has.

 

[megaericzero]

9 hours ago, Ishiga said:

It doesn't but Staff Blast is hackneyed and just does what it says on the tin well enough to make it clear what kind of thing I'm talking about. Frankly, The name of the powerset is a banal concern in general, but I wanted to be properly considerate of the conceptual issues it'd cause. I know I'd kinda get hung up about it too.

Personally, I like the name Staff Blast because it does what it says on the tin. We don't need to name Assault Rifle something like "heavy arsenal" or Dual Pistols "[variable] ammo blast"; often times WYSIWYG is the best nomenclature. And, as someone else said, Staff Blast actually more concept-neutral than Aether.

Edited March 26 by megaericzero
reword for clarity

[strangething]

I had a similar idea, but not as a primary:

 

Staff of Power

Blaster Secondary

 

Lots of self-buffs, a melee smash, maybe an invisibility power? The staff can look like any of the Staff Fighting options, of course.

 

 

[KingCeddd03]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:44 AM, Ishiga said:

I am a huge fan of the Dual Pistol ammo swap mechanic. Recently I realized there's room for a "wizard" style archetype option given the presence of Blackwand and Nemesis Staff. I propose this:

 

Staff Blast [potentially also, Mage Blast/Sorcerer's Staff]
All powers are natively Smashing/Lethal with various effects depending on the skill. An even balance of AoE and Single Target across the set.

One of the skills is Aspect Swap. It works much like Swap Ammo in that it grants you several toggles that allow you to tack on additional damage types to the rest of the kit (Or replace the lethal damage in the split typing if possible)

Aspect of Fire - Fire dmg + DoT
Aspect of Ice - Cold dmg + slow/freeze
Aspect of Lightning - Energy dmg + End drain

Aspect of the Void - Negative dmg + long duration DoT/To-hit debuffs

 

Mostly just all spitballing ideas, feel free to readjust concepts as needed for balance sake but this would be awesome to see in the future. ♥

This could work but without the staff Mystic Blast could have a swap ammo kinda feel with this.

Aspect of Fire - Fire dmg + DoT
Aspect of Ice - Cold dmg + slow/freeze
Aspect of Lightning - Energy dmg + End drain

Aspect of the Void - Negative dmg + long duration DoT/To-hit debuffs

 

However if you set in stone on having the staff it would be better to just use staff Fighting and have the devs be able to use the masteries to shoot whatever you choose out, alt animation.

Edited April 4 by KingCeddd03

[Videra]

Ah, the Ma'Tok staff powerset.

I'm here for it, probably.

[Ishiga]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:10 AM, KingCeddd03 said:

However if you set in stone on having the staff it would be better to just use staff Fighting and have the devs be able to use the masteries to shoot whatever you choose out, alt animation.

See the staff itself is part of what I want to focus on because the game has a bunch of existing animations for use with staves and firing projectiles. The problem with staff fighting is that one - the powerset is in a shit state right now and this would do it no favors, and two - the animations of staff fighting would actually further complicate things.

 

I specifically want to bring a new weapon-use set into the fray as a blast set because we simply do not have anything like this and casting foci are a thing in any magical context you can point to, even in settings with hand-casting.

[kelika2]

Just give Wizarding Assault for doms eye of the storm and ill be happy

[KingCeddd03]

5 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Just give Wizarding Assault for doms eye of the storm and ill be happy

That is a good idea but I am trying to push more for mystic assault than wizarding 

[Trickshooter]

I love the idea of a Ranged Staff Blast type weapon! Have you considered calling it a Scepter, rather than a Staff to differentiate it from Staff Fighting? Staff Blast works well enough, but you could also just call it what it is, similar to the other weapon sets, so possibly Energy Staff/Scepter or Power Staff/Scepter.

 

I don't think Staves as a ranged set are anymore origin-limiting then the guns and bows are. Comics are full of staves/wands that aren't magical. Maybe it came from a high tech alien race, maybe it was designed by some hero/villain to pull energy from another dimension... heck, comics even have a mutant who uses a staff, kinda. Black Tom Cassidy used his shillelagh as a focus for blasting his mutant ability.

 

I don't like the idea of basically copying Dual Pistols theme, though, or of the default damage type being smashing/lethal, only because I'm not sure what it's firing at that point.

 

You could easily design it as a set around a more unique idea, like... 

 

Maybe every attack automatically cycles through Fire/Cold/Energy(Electric) damage as you use them, giving you a greater range of damage types that aren't weighed down by also being part Smashing or Lethal, but obviously you have less control over when to use them.

 

Maybe the single target attacks grant stacks of some unique ability, and when you have X amount of stacks, your AoE attacks become "charged" and do more damage and have larger area of effects.

 

Maybe every time you attack you gain a stack of whatever and when you have X amount of stacks, the next single-target attack you use becomes an AoE.

 

Maybe you get a toggle when you take the powerset that lets you change your AoEs from standard ranged AoEs to higher damage PBAoEs at the cost of having to be closer to enemies.

 

etc. etc.

 

Point being, there is so much room for creativity because a staff that shoots energy is generic enough that could come up with so many gimmicks.

[captainstar]

love the idea

[Duckbutler]

Maybe call it Blast Staff instead of Staff Blast? Blast Staff makes it sound more like the thing you are wielding is a staff that blasts. Staff Blast is confusing because staves don't normally blast people. My mind automatically starts to wonder about what on earth you're doing to people with that staff to say that you're 'blasting' them.

 

I would not get too hung up on the origin thing. A natural fire blaster already doesn't make sense since a supernatural being that could naturally spit fire is a magic origin. Yeah, this would very heavily lean towards the magic origin. I think that subtle change in name might also help imply there's something special about the staff itself that could be explained through science/magic/technology.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

Maybe call it Blast Staff instead of Staff Blast? Blast Staff makes it sound more like the thing you are wielding is a staff that blasts. Staff Blast is confusing because staves don't normally blast people. My mind automatically starts to wonder about what on earth you're doing to people with that staff to say that you're 'blasting' them.

Adjective/descriptor before noun. Reading blast staff, I think of a staff that explodes upon impact.

 

4 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

A natural fire blaster already doesn't make sense since a supernatural being that could naturally spit fire is a magic origin. Yeah, this would very heavily lean towards the magic origin.

You can have a creature that projects combustible chemicals its body produces for that effect as a defense mechanism naturally, that ignite when they mix with each other in the open air. No magic required.

 

Edited May 1 by Rudra
Edited to remove incorrect "in the".

[Duckbutler]

Noun verb. I am a verber who verbs you with my noun. Blast sets belong to blasters who are going to blast you. Really, I'm trying to discreetly say that I think Staff Blast sound like you're going to take that staff and shove it where the sun don't shine. And I'm normally the guy that misses innuendo.

 

A blast staff that explodes upon impact, yeah, that would be in keeping with the idea for the set. Like if the set had a short range or melee attack.

[Rudra]

10 minutes ago, Duckbutler said:

Noun verb. I am a verber who verbs you with my noun. Blast sets belong to blasters who are going to blast you. Really, I'm trying to discreetly say that I think Staff Blast sound like you're going to take that staff and shove it where the sun don't shine. And I'm normally the guy that misses innuendo.

 

A blast staff that explodes upon impact, yeah, that would be in keeping with the idea for the set. Like if the set had a short range or melee attack.

This is a derailment and I apologize, but blast is both a noun and a verb. So I read Fire Blast as a fire description of the noun form blast. All the set names to me read as nouns. That's why the manipulation sets are manipulation. Control sets are control as noun form, and so on. I don't think there are any verb form set names.

 

Edit: And even if it is noun verb instead? Then it would still be Staff (the noun) Blast (the verb). (Edit again: If it were noun verb and it was called Blast Staff, then assuming blast remains the verb, you are blasting the staff rather than blasting a target with/through it.)

Edited May 1 by Rudra

[megaericzero]

4 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

A natural fire blaster already doesn't make sense since a supernatural being that could naturally spit fire is a magic origin.

To expand on what Rudra said, Natural origin also states your abilities can be natural to your species. Peacebringers used to be origin-locked to Natural.

 

19 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Adjective/descriptor before noun.

3 minutes ago, Duckbutler said:

Noun verb.

Depends on how you see power set names. There's ambiguity that could've been intentional by the original dev team. For instance, does Fire Manipulation mean "I am manipulating fire" or "I am using fire to manipulate my foes"? Both fit what you're doing.

The current dev team doesn't seem as keen on the wordplay, such as with Sonic Manipulation which we can infer isn't "I am manipulating Sonic" because, y'know, grammar.

[biostem]

2 hours ago, Duckbutler said:

Noun verb. I am a verber who verbs you with my noun. Blast sets belong to blasters who are going to blast you. Really, I'm trying to discreetly say that I think Staff Blast sound like you're going to take that staff and shove it where the sun don't shine. And I'm normally the guy that misses innuendo.

 

A blast staff that explodes upon impact, yeah, that would be in keeping with the idea for the set. Like if the set had a short range or melee attack.

Now we need an assault rifle, beam rifle, and dual pistols set where, instead of simply attacking WITH said weapon, you physically THROW them at the enemy...