Do-it-all Brute builds?

[Fever Dream]

Hey guys.  Long time player here.  I currently play on Homecoming. I've leveled numerous characters over the years. I've tricked some of with full IO builds and abandoned numerous characters once they hit 50. Heck,  I've played since release.

 

Lately I've wanted to create a character that I can take into content I've never really done. Accolades,  badges, TFs, solo, groups, etc.

 

We'll call it the do it all brute. I am sold on Savage melee but I'm not sure if I should pair it with /bio or /rad.

 

I'm also newer into making bills from scratch.  I usually grab builds from the forums and keep the bones.  Changing minor things like pool power picks.

 

I'm looking for advice on a secondary and any builds that I can peek at.  I come from ranged def capped blasters. So the resist/regeneration sets are new to me.

 

@Nemu 

 

Thanks in advance all. 

[Erratic1]

Bio and Rad are both good, both have usable T9 abilities, and will give different feels from each other as you play. 

 

Bio has excellent survivability, powerful regeneration/recovery, and brings a damage aura to the table to take you further down the road of dealing damage over time. You really cannot go wrong going with Bio. It is an easy powerset to recommend. However....

 

...while I am less proficient at building Rad, it has some serious plusses it brings to the table. Like Bio it has powerful regeneration/recovery, but it also grants +Recharge, which should stack with the +Recharge from your Blood Frenzy. While you do not have a damage aura, you do have two powers which will apply DoTs over their own, and you have a couple of ways to lower enemy Defense, making it easier for you to hit harder targets.

 

 I think you would do well with either.

[nihilii]

/bio is slightly stronger (because it's one of the most powerful armor sets) but /rad is no slouch either. Seconding "can't go wrong with either".

The two pieces of generic advice I'd give for your situation:

- defense is broken good in this game, always. Even if you pick resistance/regeneration sets, you will get more mileage out of chasing defense bonuses than resistance or regen bonuses. Get the notable uniques like Shield Wall and Reactive Defenses, but beyond that, go all in on defense if you intend to build survivability.

- Brutes operate with low base damage and high damage buff (due to Fury). This is largely a reversal from your Blasters, where you most likely picked Musculature Alpha and enjoyed any damage bonuses. On a Brute you might get more bang out of your buck exploring alternate routes. A favorite of mine is Vigor incarnate which pumps your accuracy, endurance and healing/regen all at once. Quite nice for both /bio and /rad, and frees up a lot of space in the build.

[Haijinx]

I'd go Scrapper or Tanker at this point, so you don't inadvertently join the chorus of "Brutes need buffs" crowd. 

 

Not that they don't have a point. But who wants that to deal with for their completionist type character? 

 

 

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I'd go Scrapper or Tanker at this point, so you don't inadvertently join the chorus of "Brutes need buffs" crowd. 

 

Not that they don't have a point. But who wants that to deal with for their completionist type character? 

 

 

 

Scrapper might be fine for Bio (though S/L being capped at 75% on resistances will hurt as Bio relies on S/L resistance and defense for everything else), but for Rad, Scapper strikes me as an inferior choice to Brute and Tanker as goes survival, with Tanker obviously being king of that hill. As goes Bio, you might be able to reasonably pull of living in Offensive Stance with Bio though whereas on a Brute, I would probably suggest Efficient (at least until Incarnates).

[Haijinx]

5 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Scrapper might be fine for Bio (though S/L being capped at 75% on resistances will hurt as Bio relies on S/L resistance and defense for everything else), but for Rad, Scapper strikes me as an inferior choice to Brute and Tanker as goes survival, with Tanker obviously being king of that hill. As goes Bio, you might be able to reasonably pull of living in Offensive Stance with Bio though whereas on a Brute, I would probably suggest Efficient (at least until Incarnates).

 

Well true, on a Scrapper it might be easier to go with a defense based Secondary, where they more directly can have Brute like Survivability.  

 

Tanker is probably best for Bio since its not the sturdiest set in the game, while Tankers get ATOs, base numbers and Pool base numbers that fix that easily. 

[Erratic1]

8 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

 

Well true, on a Scrapper it might be easier to go with a defense based Secondary, where they more directly can have Brute like Survivability.  

 

Tanker is probably best for Bio since its not the sturdiest set in the game, while Tankers get ATOs, base numbers and Pool base numbers that fix that easily. 

 

Someone would have to math out the options to see where Tanker in Offensive Stance comes out with DoTs versus Brute Fury upping DoTs. I suspect Offensive Stance on the Tanker is only going to give one package of damage on hit. And if Brute on Incarnates can survive Offensive Stance, its DoTs should come out on top. Obviously Tanker will retain its area superiority.

[Nemu]

15 hours ago, Fever Dream said:

I am sold on Savage melee but I'm not sure if I should pair it with /bio or /rad.

Here are some write ups I did on /Bio and /Rad
 

 

Bio is squishy, rad is less squishy. Survival is the first thing a lot of people look to address and neither has overwhelming synergy with Savage other than a recharge buff with blood stacks which helps your cornerstone survival powers recharge faster. I'm biased towards sets that have knockdowns as mitigation. Both sets need recharge, so the knockdowns server 2 purposes - mitigation and force feedback proc

 

So you will most likely see a few camps to how to approach building such a combo

 

1 - Try to hit softcap/high defenses and as close to 90% S/L resist as possible.

2 - Build like you build anything and everything from yester-year - recharge recharge recharge and more recharge

3 - Try a moderate blend of 1 and 2

 

I've done the high defense route with my sav/bio stalker, but it left a lot of damage on the table and since then I'm gravitated more towards approach 3. Recharge is still important for either secondary and I want to make a conscious effort to build for global recharge while balancing getting my S/L/E/N/F/C defenses around 30% ish so that I can pop a luck to get close to softcap.

 

My first crack at Sav/Bio would look something like this:
 

Sav Bio - Brute (Savage Melee - Bio Armor).mbd

 

This is not a combination that you can make an uber tank mage without major sacrifices on damage so I focused on what the build needs outside of softcap defenses and hardcap resists - recharge and slow resistance. I took energy torrent as a force feedback proc trigger + mitigation late game, and addressed blind by picking up focused accuracy. Your defenses are in the 30% range so pop lucks proactively if you know you are going into danger.

 

I would have taken a similar approach with /Rad but doubled down on recharge even more to proc monster ground zero and radiation therapy.

 

Think of both builds as playing blasters with mez protection. Don't stand still too much and expect to trade blows against overwhelming odds and you'll do fine.

[Erratic1]

12 minutes ago, Nemu said:

Bio is squishy, rad is less squishy.

 

This is completely opposite my experience (and apparently the experience of @Haijinx as well). You cap F/C/E/N defense on Bio and cap S/L resist. For the most part you are good, but for when things get nasty you have three click powers--a heal, a shield, and a regen/recovery boost--which, used appropriately, make you incredibly sturdy.

 

Bio is widely considered the best defensive set in the game, with many considering it to be overpowered. Granted, that is best for all that it does, not for being the absolute toughest--but Invulnerability and Stone do not do a lot of the things Bio does. Rad almost never gets spoken of in those terms.

Edited May 4 by Erratic1

[Nemu]

Relative to sets that require less overhead to get there and offer defense debuff resist such as stone armor, shield or SR etc..., I stand my ground that Bio and rad are squishier given the defense meta, the former moreso than the latter. Defense debuffs exist and a lot of that comes from lethal gun/sword attacks. It takes a LOT of investment to get both FCEN softcap AND 90% S/L resist on brutes, and even more so when you plan to stay in offensive mode. The juice is not worth the squeeze in my opinion.

 

But you can't look at survival from just from your armor set. Survival is combination of armor set, primary/epic set synergies, player skill and build, the two scrapper builds I posted is a testament to that.

 

Like I said, you can invest in softcap and resists at the expense of damage. But I live the blaster mantra of "dead things don't fight back," and I find that a moderate approach works well when you have your playstyle down and know what you are doing.

Edited May 4 by Nemu

[Erratic1]

17 minutes ago, Nemu said:

Relative to sets that require less overhead to get there and offer defense debuff resist such as stone armor, shield or SR etc..., I stand my ground that Bio and rad are squishier given the defense meta, the former moreso than the latter. Defense debuffs exist and a lot of that comes from lethal gun/sword attacks. It takes a LOT of investment to get both FCEN softcap AND 90% S/L resist on brutes, and even more so when you plan to stay in offensive mode. The juice is not worth the squeeze in my opinion.

 

My objection was to the notion that Rad is sturdier than Bio.

 

As goes Bio overall, yes, Defense Buffs exists and you do not get DDR with it. That is one of its drawbacks. Every sets has those. WP is miserable as goes slows and endurance drain. Energy Aura struggles achieving even Scrapper cap for resistances, with most builds falling short of that. 

 

Environmental Modification, slotted, with the two +3 Def IOs gets you more than halfway to FCEN soft cap for an investment of 7 slots. Weave, with fairly minimal slotting is worth at least 5% more, as is a full set of Winter's Grasp IO*s. Call that another 7 slots. Given you were going to be slotting offensive powers anyway and you were going to be slotting your defensive set powers anyway, those are not lost opportunity costs. Weave and whatever slots you put there are your investment and that is one power and two slots (at least as I have it on my SS/Bio brute who softcaps FCEN defense and caps S/L resistances). With just what I have outline you should be in the area of 33.5% or so FCEN Defense. That is three powers and 14 slots versus a total of 24 powers and 67 slots--12.5% of your powers and 21% of your slots.

 

Presuming you were going to slot your other armor set powers like Hardened Carapace, and Evolving Armor, your also pick up +Def via your choice there--two birds, one stone. An investment of 3 slots in each gets you +6.25% F/C Def if you use Aegis IOs, or 9.37% if you invest two more slots. F/C is now at 43% and trivially and softcap with any other bonus to it. Presumably you were going to take and slot Hardened Carapace. This is also not some investment you were not otherwise going to be doing, as presumably you are taking both those powers and slotting them. Tough is where you are making an investment. So again, "...a LOT of investment..." seems a stretch.

 

As for staying in Offensive mode, I think I made it clear it is not something I really see a brute doing short of Incarnates, if at all. You want to talk about juice not worth the squeeze? That would be the damage boost from Offensive stance compared to what you are getting out of Fury on Brute.

 

 

 

 

 

*Requires a ranged attack power, but hey, Epic sets exists if one is not found in your primary.

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

This is completely opposite my experience (and apparently the experience of @Haijinx as well). You cap F/C/E/N defense on Bio and cap S/L resist. For the most part you are good, but for when things get nasty you have three click powers--a heal, a shield, and a regen/recovery boost--which, used appropriately, make you incredibly sturdy.

 

Bio is widely considered the best defensive set in the game, with many considering it to be overpowered. Granted, that is best for all that it does, not for being the absolute toughest--but Invulnerability and Stone do not do a lot of the things Bio does. Rad almost never gets spoken of in those terms.

 

I was thinking more Bio vs Rad on Scrapper. At least Brutes can get 90% S/L resist which is pretty valuable for a lot of encounters.

 

But Bio on Tankers - well they get all the upside and the downsides are basically barely noticed with their def/res values 

[Nemu]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

As for staying in Offensive mode, I think I made it clear it is not something I really see a brute doing short of Incarnates, if at all.

 

I really don't understand this. Fury grants up to 200% damage buff but brute damage cap is 700%, there's a lot more room for damage there and offensive provides not only a damage buff, but a toxic proc and slightly better -res debuff. I'll take what I can get.

 

I've taken your comments and mocked up a build based on my original entry to show the OP what that looks like. You are right, it's not a lot of investment to hit those numbers in defensive mode, but it is A LOT of investment if you try to hit those numbers in offensive.

 

Sav Bio Defensive - Brute (Savage Melee - Bio Armor).mbd

 

My main concern is that this type of build favors factions that don't have diversified damage types. Lethal debuffs from guns/swords debuff all defense and that quickly cascades. So is getting FCEN to softcap really worth it? I see more value in the hard 90% resist cap in defensive mode more than I do the FCEN defense. If there's anything about the "juice not worth the squeeze" point you made about using offensive, for me it would be the drastic dip in the resist value if I switched to that mode.

 

My take on this combo is that if defenses are easily stripped and you are going to be fighting all types of stuff with mixed damage types, it's more worthwhile to focus on things that help you outside of defense. The staples of /bio in that regard are the clicks - Ablative Carapace, DNA Siphon and Parasitic Aura - all of them need recharge, so I built with more emphasis on that. However, that also means more micromanagement of inspirations and adopting a playstyle that's suitable for such build philosophies.

 

To the OP, if you prefer to stand still and trade blows then the above build may a better fit, until you run up against factions that diversify their damage types and debuffs.

 

Edited May 4 by Nemu

[Erratic1]

7 minutes ago, Nemu said:

 

I really don't understand this. Fury grants up to 200% damage buff but brute damage cap is 700%, there's a lot more room for damage there and offensive provides not only a damage buff, but a toxic proc and slightly better -res debuff. I'll take what I can get.

 

The tradeoff in any more difficult content just is not worth it, especially since Offensive stance just is not worth it. S/L resistance takes a significant hit in Offensive stance.

9 minutes ago, Nemu said:

I've taken your comments and mocked up a build based on my original entry to show the OP what that looks like. You are right, it's not a lot of investment to hit those numbers in defensive mode, but it is A LOT of investment if you try to hit those numbers in offensive.

 

I run my SS/Bio Brute in Efficient, though to be honest, Defensive is not that much of a damage hit. Only when things get particularly nasty does he depart Efficient for Defensive though. 

 

As goes running in Offensive, yes, you are right. It would take a lot of investment. That is why I noted a Brute in Offensive as something better suited to Incarnate powers being available. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Nemu said:

My main concern is that this type of build favors factions that don't have diversified damage types. Lethal debuffs from guns/swords debuff all defense and that quickly cascades. So is getting FCEN to softcap really worth it? I see more value in the hard 90% resist cap in defensive mode more than I do the FCEN defense. If there's anything about the "juice not worth the squeeze" point you made about using offensive, for me it would be the drastic dip in the resist value if I switched to that mode.

 

I think you are presuming me advocating running Offensive stance. Above I was only mentioning the possibility and where I saw the best potential for doing so. Outside Offensive, reaching S/L resist cap is considerably more doable. But to be fair to your point, there are places where you may have to skimp. A lot comes down to what powers you are focusing on. 

 

As goes the build you posted, it has some nice defensive numbers. I am a bit less comfortable with its low inherent endurance generation, but with the +Recharge you have and the ability to use Parasitic Aura and DNA Siphon, that discomfort is more in regards to time spent needing to activate one of those two powers and how the build would fare when facing a single AV/monster as opposed to having crowds around. Mind you, all of that falls mostly into a personal taste/comfort zone as opposed to being any sort of serious flaw.

 

I am curious what type of Savage/Rad build you might offer. As I noted above, I am less experienced on Rad armor builds.

[Nemu]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I am curious what type of Savage/Rad build you might offer.

I'd double/triple down on recharge and procs. Dead things don't fight back. outside of AV/GMs I find it's the fodder that greatly accelerates your path to debt when you engage a group. 1 or two lone bosses do not demand the kind of mitigation that softcapped builds offer. So the faster you can kill the trash fodder, the more you increase your likelyhood to live through the boss encounter.

 

Click click click click click - Brute (Savage Melee - Radiation Armor).mbd

 

This one rotates godmodes to keep resists respectable. The absorb shield and regen provide backup. You can add melee core/barrier later. It'll be a total clickfest.

[One IV All]

I have one brute that I play fairly consistently, and it is my Savage/Bio. The DOT’s from both Savage Melee and Bio Armor help ramp up fury and it is a nice little synergy. The same could probably be said for Sav/Elec and Sav/Dark though.

[Grimm2]

Man, Stone Armor has to be on the table for this. Granite-less neu-Stone is excellently sturdy and adds a damage proc and aura that are boosted by Fury. I've had the idea of a gargoyle- themed Sav/Stone that should see the light of day. Bio and Rad are great, but look at Stone if you haven't yet. 

[Sovera]

Offensive takes all resistances down in 7%. S/L are the easiest to get up thanks to Tough.

 

This is a Fire/Bio with 40% to S/L/E/N and 85% to S/L with Offensive on for Barrier to finish capping. Change Musculature to Resilient and a couple of slots from the prestige dashes can be saved to try to change the slotting from GFS to incorporate the purple proc. I put too much emphasis on building S/L defenses which could have changed the slotting into other directions.

 

Brute (Fire Bio).mbd

 

But on the topic of this conversation I would go for Stone. To me it has beat both Fire Armor and Bio with all the bells and whistles even if it doesn't reach the dummy thiccness on Brutes as it does on Tankers (50% defenses, 76% resistances down the board, 81% with Barrier).

[Erratic1]

20 minutes ago, Sovera said:

This is a Fire/Bio with 40% to S/L/E/N and 85% to S/L with Offensive on for Barrier to finish capping.

 

Notably, has the Scaling Resistance IO from Reactive Defenses, so the value climbs as you lose health.

[Fever Dream]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Offensive takes all resistances down in 7%. S/L are the easiest to get up thanks to Tough.

 

This is a Fire/Bio with 40% to S/L/E/N and 85% to S/L with Offensive on for Barrier to finish capping. Change Musculature to Resilient and a couple of slots from the prestige dashes can be saved to try to change the slotting from GFS to incorporate the purple proc. I put too much emphasis on building S/L defenses which could have changed the slotting into other directions.

 

Brute (Fire Bio).mbd 50.05 kB · 2 downloads

 

But on the topic of this conversation I would go for Stone. To me it has beat both Fire Armor and Bio with all the bells and whistles even if it doesn't reach the dummy thiccness on Brutes as it does on Tankers (50% defenses, 76% resistances down the board, 81% with Barrier).

How does the damage proc in stone actually work? Tried checking it out in mids but couldn't make sense of it. 

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Fever Dream said:

How does the damage proc in stone actually work? Tried checking it out in mids but couldn't make sense of it. 

 

It only works for Sentinels. I've made a bug report in Mid's Discord so now we wait. But if you want to have a somewhat idea just load a Sentinel with Stone Armor and toggle it on and off to get an approximate idea.

 

It apparently boils to around 20 DPS and is based on the animation time of a power, according to Bopper.

[Grimm2]

15 minutes ago, Fever Dream said:

How does the damage proc in stone actually work? Tried checking it out in mids but couldn't make sense of it. 

+1 for Sovera's answer, also I remember it's supposed to have a lower damage for ranged powers vs. melee powers. It's a 3 tick dot that has a 20% chance to cancel on ticks 1 and 2. They will crit on a stalker/scrapper, too. 

[SeraphimKensai]

Brute wise, I really dig my SS/Rad/Soul Brute.

 

That thing gets capped resistances, a ton of damage (including procs in rad therapy/ground zero), ranged damage with arcane/gloom, and darkest night for a bit of team utility and extra survivability of necessary.

[Fever Dream]

On 5/5/2024 at 7:09 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Brute wise, I really dig my SS/Rad/Soul Brute.

 

That thing gets capped resistances, a ton of damage (including procs in rad therapy/ground zero), ranged damage with arcane/gloom, and darkest night for a bit of team utility and extra survivability of necessary.

Got a build to share? Would love to see it!