Why are most builds dropping Siphon Power when they get Fulcrum Shift?

[ItsDecoy]

Like the title says ….why are most Kinetics builds dropping Siphon Power for Fulcrum Shift?  I play a lot of the content Solo as a Corruptor, from bosses to AV’s to 1v1’s I love the challenge and living on the edge of wipe out in CoH. Which is why I still have Siphon Power on my build because I think it’s helping mitigate the actual wipe out. Kinetics only gets a few actual debuffs in its tool kit and I would think Siphon Power would help most player with difficult larger mob even with Fulcrum Shift?

 

However, maybe I am missing something? Just some inside baseball on how I have mine slotted:

2 Acc

3 Rechg 

 

and my reasoning for this is mostly Bosses, AV’s, and the Occasional GM. With this I find that the single target debuff is helpful from not getting wiped out when going against these types of threats because it can constantly be reapplied. 

 

Again….if this is dumb or a waste please let me know.

 

 

[Psiphon]

For me, I try to keep it in especially as I exemp a lot.

If you team and play mainly end game, it’s bit of a waste.

In your case probably worth keeping.

[Maelwys]

I certainly tend to keep the siphons around. Siphon Speed for extra +Recharge (obviously) and Siphon Power because yes, occasionally you'll find yourself in a target-poor environment.
Against an AV an extra stackable -20% damage debuff/+20% damage buff can be plenty useful; so I find I get far more mileage out of Siphon Power than the likes of IR or Repel.

[kelika2]

Because just like perma unstoppable/elude or granite armor, Fulcrum is just too strong and the rest of the rest isnt needed because of Fulcrum being a one shot thing to max damage.

why spend eons (in kinetics time) animating siphon power for 20% damage when fulcrum already has you at the damage cap?

 

and in the event of a single AV, thats what lore pets are for

 

im not joking or memeing btw, i actual legit hate fulcrum shift

[Uun]

I have Siphon Power in my build but I only slot it with 1 acc IO in the base slot. Once you get Fulcrum Shift it's no longer needed for +dmg (unless you exemp below lvl 25) and is only useful for stacking -dmg on AVs.

[ItsDecoy]

It’s good to see that I am not the only one who is using Siphon Power.

 

I do understand what others are saying about dropping it but I guess that is the difference between Team players and the Solo players.

 

How does everyone else have their Siphon Power Slotted? 

[Maelwys]

On 6/13/2024 at 5:13 PM, ItsDecoy said:

How does everyone else have their Siphon Power Slotted? 

It'll depend on your other buffs (Tactics, global Accuracy bonuses etc).
Minimum slotting (for me) is probably One +5 Level 50 Acc IO plus One +5 Level 50 Rech IO.
Two Rech and Two Acc (or 2x Provocation DSyncs if you've more inf than sense) if you want to max it out.
However honestly as long as it ends up reaching 95%+ hitrate versus +3 enemies you're good for most PVE content.

4 star Hardmode content adds 30% Defence to all, and some of the enemies there are level-shifted... so if you really wanted to max it out then you'd be shooting for "125%+ accuracy versus +4 enemies" (personally I don't bother doing that for anything other than Fulcrum and Transfusion)
 

Edited June 19 by Maelwys

[ScarySai]

Redundancy. 

 

When a build is tight, and you use fulcrum properly, especially when leveraged with fold space, siphon power doesn't really do much for the cast, and kin + blast is already fairly busy when played right.

 

[Windchime]

Long time Kin player and avid user of both Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift here. 

I also routinely cycle transfusion in AV fights for the -regen whether healing is needed or not.

 

If the content is such that my team was already at +DMG cap and nobody is getting 1 shot-ed (teaming with the granite tank with nobody in the splash zone), then I might not be inclined to use Siphon. 

 

The space in my attack chain is still there though!  Maybe I cycle in a siphon speed, transfusion, or throw a speed boost to the blaster in the back who is always out of range.

 

I think it all really just comes down to play style.  I really enjoy having a lot of different tools to do the job the best I can.  Some people want one tool that's best for  80% of the time and good for the remaining 20%.

 

Either way--are you having fun?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9 by Windchime

[Psyonico]

My thought on siphon power post FS is that it's not needed in 95% of content, but the -damage is very helpful against AVs

[Krimson]

I've respecced Blue seven times and I've never dropped Siphon Power. 

[biostem]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:06 AM, ScarySai said:

When a build is tight,

I think this is the crux of why one might skip siphon power, especially if you have a lot of global +recharge and/or would rather take another power...

[Jacke]

I have 3 Kinetics Toons (Kin/Elect Defender, Fire/Kin Corruptor, Kin/Rad Defender) and all 3 keep Siphon Power as a L1 Power Pick.  As @Psyonico mention, the -Damage is always good.  The +Damage is really needed for the Corruptor.  And for the Defender, when it hasn't quite hit enough with Fulcrum Shift, Siphon Power helps get that extra bit more.  I have it on Tray 1 Slot 1, so I can use it like other Ranged Attacks.

[Without_Pause]

You'll take SP from my cold dead hands. Outside of AVs, it is a rather effective way to pull when need be based more on a hunch/experience than actual data. I think 1-sotting for Acc is perfectly acceptable. 

[Psylenz0511]

Siphon power is a great single target pull, with benefits.

Siphon power is good for -20% damage on foes.

Siphon power is good because even the mighty fulcrum shift has an accuracy check.

Siphon power doesn't need a lot of slots.

 

For my kinetics, it's a keeper.

[Hjarki]

I tend to drop Siphon Power myself.

 

The first problem is that it can't be slotted. So it's occupying a power pick I could otherwise be using to boost my stats.

 

Then there's simply what it does: +damage/-damage. The +damage component is nice but Fulcrum Shift is significantly better at the same task and, in teams, normally sufficient to cap +damage anyway. The -damage component is stackable, but I don't find stackable -damage all that useful - if you can't take the damage before -damage is stacked, you probably don't need to stack it. -damage is also a relatively weak form of defense since it still gets hit by purple patch, it's resisted by resistance and it's additive. As a result, it gets worse the tougher the content gets.

[Teklord]

On my Psi/Kin corruptor I skipped Siphon Power and it feels better. Siphon Power if you are using it demands a lot of your animation time on an AV/GM/etc. And I am also spamming transfusion on most AVs for the -regen and the +health for teammates. I have FS down to about 17 seconds on my own self buffs, if there are team +recharge it is sooner. I am not someone who saves FS for the perfect hit, I use it nearly on cooldown and track my +dmg in combat attributes.

 

On my defender kins I tend to keep siphon power but tbh it is pretty clunky. My corruptors feel more like they are doing damage and buffing the team where my defenders (kin/elec) feels more focused on buff/debuff. I love my psi/kin and he also uses combat teleport, which is awesome since all of my kins are animation gated not recharge gated. Psi being fast, combat teleport being fast and most kinetic powers being average. I don't really have animation time for siphon power.

[Psylenz0511]

On 9/23/2024 at 12:06 PM, Teklord said:

On my Psi/Kin corruptor I skipped Siphon Power and it feels better. Siphon Power if you are using it demands a lot of your animation time on an AV/GM/etc. And I am also spamming transfusion on most AVs for the -regen and the +health for teammates. I have FS down to about 17 seconds on my own self buffs, if there are team +recharge it is sooner. I am not someone who saves FS for the perfect hit, I use it nearly on cooldown and track my +dmg in combat attributes.

 

On my defender kins I tend to keep siphon power but tbh it is pretty clunky. My corruptors feel more like they are doing damage and buffing the team where my defenders (kin/elec) feels more focused on buff/debuff. I love my psi/kin and he also uses combat teleport, which is awesome since all of my kins are animation gated not recharge gated. Psi being fast, combat teleport being fast and most kinetic powers being average. I don't really have animation time for siphon power.

 

Between what I call kinetic range and the aforementioned 'animation gated', these are two issues not mentioned often enough in kinetic builds that quickly become evident with any kinetic that uses siphon speed to maximize utility. The third feature of kinetics being overlooked is Siphon Speed is irresistible by targets. Eat that Diabolique.