Help Me Understand Exemplaring

[WuTang]

First, the reason I'm asking is because after having legitimately leveled a toon through some levels and actually experiencing the endurance issues at certain levels, then after hitting 50 and getting the incarnates and enhancements that finish the build out and feeling the issues basically ease out of existence... When we exemp down the growing pains seem to be waaaaay less than I remember and sometimes there are none at all.

 

Slots and attuned I/Os... Do these matter? Or is it some math in the background that gives a 50 an edge when playing at 25?

 

Slots have levels based on when they were attained, so are all slots available when we exemp down or are the one attained beyond the current level blacked out? And if so, I'm assuming that reduces set bonuses and the values of any enhancement in slots that are blacked out. But, anecdotally, I don't feel as gimped as I did when I was actually playing at that level.

 

Attuned I/Os I'm assuming that they shift in value based on the level that we've shifted to, but then what about AT I/Os? When we change them to superior, do we get any value out of them if we exemp down? So, then what of non-attuned level 50 I/Os? Do they lose all value when we exemp? It doesn't feel like it.

 

I never really thought I'd like rolling backwards, but I was wrong. TFs always seemed too complicated and for a long time I didn't run any until I hit 50 and then I would only run those that allowed me to stay 50. I've come around.

 

I had other questions....but life keeps interrupting my train of thought.

 

So, thanks in advance for any help

 

 

[tidge]

Short answers: If you have attuned pieces, they will always provide enhancement bonuses as if they are at the level the character is, with the caution that if the set tops out at a level below 50, the enhancement value will be capped at the level of the set, not the player. So an attuned piece from a set that caps at 20 will provide less enhancement than a piece from a set that caps at 50. PVP and Purple sets act as if they are attuned, so this is why players often boost them to 50+5. HO/DS act as if they are attuned. Winters, ATOs, OF are always attuned.

 

All slots are "available" in powers, the game doesn't "remember" at what level a slot was placed. The game does remember when powers were taken, which is why when exemplaring down players lose access to some powers. (IIRC power are available up to +5 above the level exemplared to).

 

Something I recall fondly from the days of live: The Kheldians were particularly tough in Bloody Bay, because a Kheldian could either respec into having a LOT of slots in Dwarf form, or eventually just exemplar down (much later IIRC), which made a single Dwarf able to hold off huge numbers of villains in PVP.

[Frozen Burn]

37 minutes ago, WuTang said:

First, the reason I'm asking is because after having legitimately leveled a toon through some levels and actually experiencing the endurance issues at certain levels, then after hitting 50 and getting the incarnates and enhancements that finish the build out and feeling the issues basically ease out of existence... When we exemp down the growing pains seem to be waaaaay less than I remember and sometimes there are none at all.

 

Slots and attuned I/Os... Do these matter? Or is it some math in the background that gives a 50 an edge when playing at 25?

 

Slots have levels based on when they were attained, so are all slots available when we exemp down or are the one attained beyond the current level blacked out? And if so, I'm assuming that reduces set bonuses and the values of any enhancement in slots that are blacked out. But, anecdotally, I don't feel as gimped as I did when I was actually playing at that level.

 

Hi.  Slot levels do not matter when you Ex down.  But # of slots in a power do get counted.  So, for example:   as you're leveling up, you have 3 slots in a power at level 20.  When you reach lvl 50, you have 6 slots in that power.  Then you Ex down and that level 20 power will pull bonuses from ALL 6 slots.  

 

The math behind the scenes is that you also get a % of the enhanced value for that power based on your actual level.  So a level 50 Ex'd down will generally have higher enhanced values on their powers compared to someone leveling up with similar IOs, SOs, etc.

 

So, yes, lvl 50s have an advantage over those who are leveling and at the same level as you.  

 

Additionally, when you Ex down, you get 5 levels of powers over your Ex'd level.  So, in the scenario I stated above, to access that lvl 20 power, you would have to Ex to lvl 15+.  So, if you did a Posi 2 TF, you'd be Ex'd to lvl 15 (max for the TF), but you'd have access to your lvl 16, 18, and 20 powers.  This also gives an advantage over the lvl 15 toon that is leveling up and who does not have those powers yet.  

 

 

37 minutes ago, WuTang said:

Attuned I/Os I'm assuming that they shift in value based on the level that we've shifted to, but then what about AT I/Os? When we change them to superior, do we get any value out of them if we exemp down? So, then what of non-attuned level 50 I/Os? Do they lose all value when we exemp? It doesn't feel like it.

 

 

Attuned IOs - they essentially have your level.  As you level, they level.  As you drop in level for EX'ing, they match your Ex'd level.  but if the set is lvl 30-50, if you ex down to lvl 25... you'll get the power, but not the set bonus because you couldn't actually slot the set until lvl 27.  But you will still get the % enhanced value the set boosts the power.

 

And yes, if you turn ATOs and Event IOs to Superior, you get that better set bonus when you Ex down.  

 

Level 50 IOs / unattuned IOs.... again, you'll get a % of the enhanced value based on the level you EX to and the lvl of the IO.  But you can only get the set bonus if you are within 3 levels of the IO - so Ex'ing down to lvl 46 or below, you will lose those lvl 50 unattuned sets - excluding purples and PVP sets - you keep those, as long as the power is still available to you when you Ex down.  This is why putting Purples and PVP sets in powers earlier in your build is beneficial, if you plan to Ex down a lot.  

 

 

Edited June 24 by Frozen Burn

[Ravenplume]

So, unattuned PVP IOs actually do act as attuned after all?  All this time, I thought they just gave the values of their specific level.  Go figure.

 

And the slots being "level agnostic" brings up something I've wondered off and on...

 

Since when you do a respec and you assign your slots after all the powers, you can actually get your Level 49 power 6 slotted if need be.  Is there any way to reflect this in Mids?  So far, when doing the slot assignments in Mids, the program does not seem to have  a means to slot more than three additional into the L49 choice.

[tidge]

I don't think that unattuned and unboosted PVP pieces will enhance better than the level they are, in other words a level 49 would be better than a level 10 (for player content above level 10).

 

Since PVP recipes will drop for all content in levels 10-50, I've gotten plenty of sub-50 PVP recipes. These either get converted into the "every build uses one" pieces and/or attuned for reuse on future builds.... while they level up, or while they await their own level 50+5 versions. I find teh level 50 respec to be a convenient time to reshuffle/attune pieces, but enhancement unslotters are also cheap.

[lemming]

11 minutes ago, tidge said:

I don't think that unattuned and unboosted PVP pieces will enhance better than the level they are, in other words a level 49 would be better than a level 10 (for player content above level 10).

 

Since PVP recipes will drop for all content in levels 10-50, I've gotten plenty of sub-50 PVP recipes. These either get converted into the "every build uses one" pieces and/or attuned for reuse on future builds.... while they level up, or while they await their own level 50+5 versions. I find teh level 50 respec to be a convenient time to reshuffle/attune pieces, but enhancement unslotters are also cheap.

I used to keep the lower level ones for such, but I wound up just selling them all.  (and bought some back as 50s)

[tidge]

Just now, lemming said:

I used to keep the lower level ones for such, but I wound up just selling them all.  (and bought some back as 50s)

 

Also a legit strategy. I got used to having attuned PVP pieces around to act as placeholders for "purples" and to experiment with different power/slotting choices.

[Hedgefund]

Here's what you need to know:

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements

[tidge]

14 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

Here's what you need to know:

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Exemplar_Effects_on_Enhancements

 

[Snarky]

Hedge posted the most important info.  to summarize, exemping down to 30 provides no effect except the loss of a few later powers.  

 

exemping down to 10-15 is horrific if your build is not set up for it.  if you plan to stay there a while (ouro challenge badges, ouro running of storylines for badges/fun) it can be worth it to make an alt build for this purpose, taking advantage of globals, procs, and the fact that even if a power is grayed out a global enhancer of the correct level in it still works.  lot of purple/winter/pvp sets do not hurt either.  

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Ravenplume said:

So, unattuned PVP IOs actually do act as attuned after all?  All this time, I thought they just gave the values of their specific level.  Go figure.

 

And the slots being "level agnostic" brings up something I've wondered off and on...

 

Since when you do a respec and you assign your slots after all the powers, you can actually get your Level 49 power 6 slotted if need be.  Is there any way to reflect this in Mids?  So far, when doing the slot assignments in Mids, the program does not seem to have  a means to slot more than three additional into the L49 choice.

 

 

I think the thread has already amply answered the original question but I'll butt in some more:

 

For this particular question IOs have two factors: the raw stats and the bonuses from having multiples of two. Take a Preventive Medicine: Heal as an example: it can be slotted at level 17 which gives it a raw healing stat of 21.8%. All of the bonuses activate at level 17 so if you exemplar to level 17 you will have the 2% S/L resistances etc.

 

If you exemplar to more than three levels under the minimum level the bonuses will turn off, so 17-3=14 is fine but level 13 and the bonuses are gone. The raw stats are still present and working fine though.

 

Using non-attuned (dubbed 'crafted' in the Auction House) gives all possible levels but the rule of -3 still applies. But in this case if it is a non-attuned level 50 the cut off is 47 and so at 46 the bonuses turn off.

 

 

Now enter the PvP/event/purple (dubbed 'Very Rare') IOs. The PvP ones have an extraordinarily low level being slotted at level 7. The event IOs (Avalanche, Blistering Cold, etc) can be slotted at level 10. The purples can only be slotted at 50.

 

Enter some more quirks:

 

- Purples can only be slotted at level 50. They can be purchased as crafted or attuned and both their stats and bonuses will work all the way to level one which makes them particularly good for exemplaring content (the fat 10% recharge and the accuracy in particular, but even the recovery). There is a little bit of worth in purchasing them as crafted instead of attuned to boost them. Not a LOT of worth since ED is present but boosting is cheap (around five million total per IO) so I do it anyway for the damage/endurance and the accuracy/recharge IOs of my purples.

- Event IOs can only be purchased as attuned. There is no 'crafted' version which also means that they cannot be boosted. The Superior version of these IOs can only be slotted at level 50 but will keep their bonuses all the way down to level 10 which, once more, makes them good for exemplaring characters. Because their bonuses are rather decent and they can be slotted as early as level 10 it is a good practice to keep a set of them for new alts and when doing the level 50 respec to stash them for the next alt. Since they are attuned the stats will accompany the leveling and they grow stronger.

- The PvP IOs (Shield Wall, Panaceia, etc) can be slotted at level 7 making them one of the first good stuff we can plonk on our characters. A Shield Wall 5% resist and Panaceia unique is my first level 7 choice. These can be purchased as attuned and crafted. The difference being that their bonuses will always work. A level 50 Shield Wall that is non-attuned will give the full bonuses at level 7. But a level 7 crafted PvP IO will have its stats as a level 7 even as we continue to level to 50. So either buy and slot at 50 or buy an attuned version.

 

 

Tangential quirk: in terms of raw stats SOs beat IOs until level 40. +3 SOs will always be 38% and only at level 40 do IOs also reach 38%. In most cases IOs are more interesting regardless since their power comes from combining several stats that mathematically makes them better. The bonuses are just the icing. But for things that can't use multi-stats IOs, such as Hasten for example, then a SO beats a IO.

 

But in practical terms this has not much value. Lets take the case of Hasten, for example. At level 22 we slot level 25 IOs and have Hasten with 92% recharge or (just using the tooltip) 3 minutes and 54 seconds recharge. If we use three SOs this becomes 114%, but then ED comes knocking at the door and clamps it down to 97%. The recharge is now 3 minutes and 48 seconds. Considering SOs lose power as we level and need to remember to upgrade them every 3 levels it is more hassle than it is worth...

 

 

EXCEPT when under level 20-ish! Under that level the raw stats that SOs bring completely blow everything out of the water.

 

For starters SOs can be used from level 1 which means three SOs will give 100% damage (even basic IOs can only be slotted at level 7). But even at level 7 three generic IOs will give a flaccid 35%. But three SOs will give 97% (they must be kept at 'green' which means upgrading every three levels but even at 'white' they still give 79% damage). This applies to everything such as Hasten (which is stupendous for low level uptime and the one thing I personally DO bother slotting with SOs).

 

With all of this said do I bother using SOs while leveling an alt? Nooooo (with the exception of Hasten). It takes about an hour and a half to reach 22 even soloing and I am not going to fuss with worrying about SOs and if they are upgraded or not. But for slow leveling they are brutal.
 

 

What about SOs for exemplaring? Still no.

 

Taking Hasten from a level 50 exemplared to Posi 1 (level 20):

- Exemplaring with two +5 level 50 recharge IOs: 40.7% - 5m19

- Exemplaring with two level 50 recharge IOs: 32.6% - 5m39

- Exemplaring with two level 53 SOs: 30% - 5:46.

 

But since two slots play with IO's strengths how about three slots?

- Three +5 level 50 recharge IOs: 61% - 4m39.

- Three level 50 recharge IOs: 49% - 5m02

- Three level 53 SOs: 45% - 5m10

[Frozen Burn]

7 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

So, unattuned PVP IOs actually do act as attuned after all?  All this time, I thought they just gave the values of their specific level.  Go figure.

 

No, unattuned PVP IOs so not act like attuned ones.  a level 10 Acc/Dam PvP IO will always be a lvl 10 IO and only boost the small amount like any other lvl 10 Acc/Dam IO - even if you are lvl 50.  If you want the PVP IO to level up and get better power enhancing values, you need to attune it like any other IO set.  

 

The thing that set PVP IOs different is, it acts like a Purple Set and you'll get the set bonuses even if you Ex down below the level of the IO (and the power it's slotted in is available to you to use).  So, a lvl 50 PVP IO set (unattuned) slotted in a lvl 10 power - you'll get those bonuses when you Ex down, whereas a regular lvl 50 IO set might not since most can't be slotted until lvl 20 or 30.  

 

I hope this helps to clarify.

[Ravenplume]

2 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

 

 

I hope this helps to clarify.

 

Very much so.  Sticking with attuned PVPs after all.