Extra Rewards for Team/League Leads?

[kelika2]

pass me lead no pass me lead no i want lead ill tell the gm ur afk 1b for lead i have 5000 forum posts i can and will end ur gaming career on homecoming i demand lead

[Mayaedits]

IMO people who need to be incentivized to form something are probs not the best people to lead. 
 

Quality leaders are needed more than a quantity. Not everyone is cut out to lead which does not make them any lesser of deserving rewards, it’s not just in everyone’s wheelhouse and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Those who have the potential to lead often find their way to leading on their own by leading things they like. They don’t need the extra incentive to get them going. They need help and answer to questions more than rewards.

Edited October 4 by Mayaedits

[Excraft]

22 hours ago, Gravitus said:

I think we can all agree that forming and leading a team IS extra work.

 

No, it isn't "extra work" at all.  It can be time consuming based on the server and time of day, but it isn't "hard work".  Not by any stretch.  Especially since most people joining teams or leagues already know what to do.  Newbies who haven't run something before are the rare exception in my experience.  The rewards for leading teams is getting to run the content you want to run when you want to.  That's more than enough.

 

I see my earlier question still hasn't been answered yet -

 

20 hours ago, Excraft said:

Can we assume that a team leader who kicks another player for not turning off Group Fly wouldn't be eligible to get any extra special rewards? 

 

 

 

[Excraft]

3 minutes ago, Mayaedits said:

IMO people who need to be incentivized to form something are probs not the best people to lead. 
 

Quality leaders are needed more than a quantity. Not everyone is cut out to lead which does not make them any lesser of deserving rewards, it’s not just in everyone’s wheelhouse and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Could not agree more!  Well said.

[lemming]

57 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

I couldn't possibly imagine some rando joining and demanding to lead for the "reward" when the other person took the initiative to recruit.

That happens often enough.    Someone will form a team and some rando will suggest a higher level person should lead to max the level of the TF.   Or the person forming it will suggest it.    My friends and I will often do similar in that one person recruits, but a different person runs the TF.

[Gravitus]

10 minutes ago, Shin Magmus said:

     I am specifically describing what will happen if the devs add an actual "carrot on a stick", a big delicious one worth a significant amount of inf, to leading content.  I mentioned the reasons why that won't work, and the exact events that would happen right here on the forums if they rolled something out in Open Beta.  It would get rolled back and/or turned into a pointless badge to preemptively prevent the situation I'm describing from becoming commonplace.

Ok yes...you did mention the carrot being too small or too big on what would happen.......perhaps if the carrot was too big it would cause what you suggested to happen.....too small and things really don't change from the way they are now. I mean it's all quite philosophical on what would actually happen......maybe there is a middle ground and its just something to experiment with. 

 

From my own experience this is what I have seen on Excelsior. During prime times when there is a lot of people online, you won't generally run into a "lack of people to join groups" in fact the groups will be ran multiple times. I've only generally seen this as an issue during the late or early hours of the game. 

 

 

[ZacKing]

25 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

You mean the exact same thing everyone else gets for putting in less effort?

 

What exactly is the hardship in this "extra effort" that was put in?  Chatting in LFG and inviting people?  Again, the reward is you as the team leader got to run the content you wanted to run when you wanted to.  You didn't have to stand around waiting for someone else to start it.

 

28 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

I would categorize that more as a philosophical reward than a tangible one.

 

If I need a Citadel TF to complete my TF Commander accolade and I don't feel like waiting around, I'll form a team and run it and get it over with when I want to.  That's the tangible reward to me. 

 

29 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

You don't get something extra, sorta like now. 

 

You keep repeating this and it's not going to make it true no matter how many times you repeat it.  You are getting something tangible for leading a team already. 

[ZacKing]

14 minutes ago, Excraft said:

Especially since most people joining teams or leagues already know what to do.  Newbies who haven't run something before are the rare exception in my experience. 

 

That's a good point.

[ZacKing]

17 minutes ago, Mayaedits said:

IMO people who need to be incentivized to form something are probs not the best people to lead. 

 

Best reason for why this idea isn't needed!   Well put.

[Gravitus]

25 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

I personally don't believe it's a lack of incentives that is causing people not to form teams, personally I would say it is a mixture of not wanting the responsibility or stress of leading one as I believe most people want to log onto the game and beat stuff up as their own super powered character, not micromanage 7-47 other people.

What I believe is the better way to encourage more people to lead is by helping others who ask questions about it when you as a person lead, I've had numerous people ask me how I run things to the point I am even making a guide for all the things I run and can be run in game as a way for those people interested to look up all they need to know and have a pop menu ready to go to run it ❤️

Well of course that's what it is, but incentive will and has gotten people to operate and achieve things out of their comfort zone.....no one wants to go to work but the incentive to go is there. There are a few people who enjoy wor just as there are a few people who enjoy forming teams, but I suspect they are in the minority. 

[Gravitus]

27 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

pass me lead no pass me lead no i want lead ill tell the gm ur afk 1b for lead i have 5000 forum posts i can and will end ur gaming career on homecoming i demand lead

This has already been addressed. Is anyone actually reading my posts? 

[Gravitus]

21 minutes ago, Mayaedits said:

IMO people who need to be incentivized to form something are probs not the best people to lead. 
 

Quality leaders are needed more than a quantity. Not everyone is cut out to lead which does not make them any lesser of deserving rewards, it’s not just in everyone’s wheelhouse and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Those who have the potential to lead often find their way to leading on their own by leading things they like. They don’t need the extra incentive to get them going. They need help and answer to questions more than rewards.

Then if for nothing else, reward and incentivize those who currently do it to keep doing it more frequently? Retention is a thing.

[Gravitus]

10 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

What exactly is the hardship in this "extra effort" that was put in?

Are we going to ignore that more times than not that coordinating instructions are constantly being given to other players? It's because its extra work most people don't want to do it. 

 

10 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

If I need a Citadel TF to complete my TF Commander accolade and I don't feel like waiting around, I'll form a team and run it and get it over with when I want to.  That's the tangible reward to me. 

You keep repeating this and it's not going to make it true no matter how many times you repeat it.  You are getting something tangible for leading a team already. 

The key word is extra. You are getting the exact same results everyone else is getting. The only difference is you get to do it on your time table which isn't a tangible reward. 

Edited October 4 by Gravitus

[Gravitus]

14 minutes ago, lemming said:

That happens often enough.    Someone will form a team and some rando will suggest a higher level person should lead to max the level of the TF.   Or the person forming it will suggest it.    My friends and I will often do similar in that one person recruits, but a different person runs the TF.

ok, so make only end game level 50 content eligible? What you're describing simply doesn't happen at the end game content...and if it does its super rare.  

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, Mayaedits said:

IMO people who need to be incentivized to form something are probs not the best people to lead. 
 

Quality leaders are needed more than a quantity. Not everyone is cut out to lead which does not make them any lesser of deserving rewards, it’s not just in everyone’s wheelhouse and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Those who have the potential to lead often find their way to leading on their own by leading things they like. They don’t need the extra incentive to get them going. They need help and answer to questions more than rewards.

Holy hells! Someone said it! Yes! Oh so very much this! Setting aside that most people I know don't want to be team lead because of the responsibility, but oh so many people seem to think that running a team is grabbing missions for everyone to just run off and do whatever they choose to in.

[Greycat]

24 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

This has already been addressed. Is anyone actually reading my posts? 

 

... did you say something?

 

😉

[lemming]

16 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

ok, so make only end game level 50 content eligible? What you're describing simply doesn't happen at the end game content...and if it does its super rare.  

That seems counter to the suggestion anyway, and no, not super rare.   Maybe in your experience.

[Greycat]

33 minutes ago, lemming said:

That happens often enough.    Someone will form a team and some rando will suggest a higher level person should lead to max the level of the TF.   Or the person forming it will suggest it.    My friends and I will often do similar in that one person recruits, but a different person runs the TF.

 

Tip (which I think I mentioned earlier) to pass along if this happens. You don't need to pass lead (which can get confusing if the team's not fully formed yet and invites might still be coming in,) at least for open world stuff. Just pick one of the 50's missions - everyone will get SK'd up and you can GM hunt or whatever's going on at 49-50.

 

Granted, it doesn't work that way for mission teams under 50, but for open world stuff I've had many, many "Wow, I didn't know that would do that" responses when I've done it.

[JKCarrier]

58 minutes ago, Mayaedits said:

IMO people who need to be incentivized to form something are probs not the best people to lead. 

Amen. There is literally no incentive the devs could offer, short of maybe real-life cash, that would make me want to lead a team. And believe me, that's for the best.

[Mayaedits]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Then if for nothing else, reward and incentivize those who currently do it to keep doing it more frequently? Retention is a thing.

Eeeeh honestly for most leads, better tools for leading would go WAYS farther than any type of reward. It's not lack of rewards that burn leaders out. It's usually either:

1. They have IRL things in their life that demand their attention and are more important that their schedule shifts

2. Running an unhealthy amount for them (Everyone is different in how much they can take on)

3. Personal issues with other players or admin.

Only time I have heard of lead burning out from rewards was one person over the existence of anthers and that is also a different convo vs lack of rewards.

Edited October 4 by Mayaedits
Formating

[lemming]

37 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Tip (which I think I mentioned earlier) to pass along if this happens. You don't need to pass lead (which can get confusing if the team's not fully formed yet and invites might still be coming in,) at least for open world stuff. Just pick one of the 50's missions - everyone will get SK'd up and you can GM hunt or whatever's going on at 49-50.

 

Granted, it doesn't work that way for mission teams under 50, but for open world stuff I've had many, many "Wow, I didn't know that would do that" responses when I've done it.

Yep, though I was talking about Task Forces.   Come to think of it, Manticore is one that is often subject to this since the mobs are base level 35 whatever the lead is.  (Or was, I haven't checked recently if that got corrected)

[The Chairman]

2 minutes ago, lemming said:

Yep, though I was talking about Task Forces.   Come to think of it, Manticore is one that is often subject to this since the mobs are base level 35 whatever the lead is.  (Or was, I haven't checked recently if that got corrected)

 

That's working as intended. "On a 'signature' Task Force, enemies will spawn based on the task force's maximum level (and the leader's notoriety setting) regardless of the team's composition."

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Task_Force

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Retention is a thing.

 

No, it really isn't a thing.  This server will go merrily on whether any of us are here or not.  HC is not a commercial business and isn't reliant upon a paying customer base to keep the lights on.  Were all of us to disappear tomorrow and donations dry up, HC could go back to running a single server for them and their friends and family just as they did before.  I'm not saying that to be critical of them or anything, it's just a simple fact.

 

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Are we going to ignore that more times than not that coordinating instructions are constantly being given to other players? It's because its extra work most people don't want to do it. 

 

Oh come on.  "Coordinating instructions"??  Have you actually joined any of the regularly formed leagues like the SNS over on Torch or MSRs and such on Excel and Everlasting?  These "instructions" are keybinds and macros that were made ages ago.  If you want to claim that pushing a key is "hard work", feel free but its a gross exaggeration. 

 

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

The key word is extra. You are getting the exact same results everyone else is getting. The only difference is you get to do it on your time table which isn't a tangible reward. 

 

My time is tangible to me.  I didn't have to stand around wasting my time waiting for someone else to do it.

 

34 minutes ago, Mayaedits said:

Eeeeh honestly for most leads, better tools for leading would go WAYS farther than any type of reward.

 

This exactly.  You'd be surprised how many people leading ToT leagues are complaining about how the League management tools work.

[shortguy on indom]

• REWARD THEM WITH VIGILANCE.
• https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers#Vigilance
• BUT WITH HIGHER %.
• PURPLE FEAR SETS.

[biostem]

There's nothing stopping the other team or league members from "tipping" the leader for a job well done;  No need for extra mechanics...