Most "Mastermind-y" Controller build?

[Speed Freak]

So my SG is doing a group project where we're going to level a group of toon's together, and only together. All eight of them are 'trollers. People are figuring out what roles they want ( the 'tank-troller, the blast-troller' , etc, etc). To prove that I have issues, I've decided to be the 'mm-troller'. I know I won't have fine control over my pets, or pet centric buffs, and I'm doing it anyway. What I'm asking, is if you were doing this, what sets would you use? I'm assuming Illusion Primary, but if not tell me I'm wrong and why. What I really want to know as what Secondary and Ancillary sets would you use? Would you go for quantity of pets or quality? Looking forward to hearing your answers and thanks in advance.

[Maelwys]

Illusion Primary (as long as you have Perma PA) is probably the best way to go; but Plant (Carrion Creeper spam) is another option.
Epicwise Leviathan/Mace/Mu/Soul Mastery each get a pet. And if you're building for Perma-PA then it'll be easy enough to get those perma too. Mace Mastery gets a spammable -res power that can also slot the Achilles' Heel Proc for even more -res (PhantomArmy love -res. And the Soulbound Proc).

For the Secondary, likely Darkness/Electrical/Marine Affinity/Traps as each of those get another pet. Maybe Storm. I suspect Marine or Darkness will be the better performing options there for pet buffage... but unfortunately I don't believe Rising Tide's bonus damage works on "untouchable" pets like Phantom Army and the Banished Pantheon buffing Lore pet. So I'd lean towards Dark Affinity. Plus if you're already going for Perma PA and a Perma-Patron pet then attaining perma-Fade too is gonna be child's play... 🙂

A Illusion/Dark/Mace (for example) should be very decent. Not huge in terms of AoE damage; but you'll have other allies (and pets!) for that. Spam procbombed Poisonous Ray and Tar Patch for lots of -res goodness. Between the Pet Aura IOs, Maneuvers and Fade/Shadowfall/DarkestNight your non-untouchable pets should end up softcapped (and Twilight Grasp + Dark Absorption should keep them healthy!). Your controller themselves will likely also end up softcapped to S/L/E. And your non-NPC teammates will love all the buffs/debuffs you're carrying.

Incarnatewise normally I'd recommend Talons Radial Lore for pet-focused builds; but their buffs won't help your untouchable PA so I'd aim for Banished Pantheon Radial Lore instead. Barrier Destiny shouldn't be needed with all that -ToHit and +Def; and Ageless likely won't be required either due to Soul Absorption, leaving Clarion available for AoE Mez protection (and a mini-power-boost option if you go Radial instead of Core).

If being a single-target-focussed Illusion/Dark/Mace doesn't tickle your fancy then an AoE-focussed Plant/Dark/Leviathan (Water Spout!) would be my second choice.
 

Edited November 29 by Maelwys

[Redlynne]

8 hours ago, Speed Freak said:

To prove that I have issues, I've decided to be the 'mm-troller'. I know I won't have fine control over my pets, or pet centric buffs, and I'm doing it anyway. What I'm asking, is if you were doing this, what sets would you use? I'm assuming Illusion Primary, but if not tell me I'm wrong and why. What I really want to know as what Secondary and Ancillary sets would you use? Would you go for quantity of pets or quality?

I'm going to offer an option so radical that I'm assuming no one else here would reach for it. 🤔

 

MIND CONTROL

 

And I can already hear the screaming from other forum regulars ... Mind Control DOESN'T HAVE ANY PET POWERS! 😠

 

To which I say ... you're wrong ... Mind Control has TWO PET POWERS(!) ... and it can make (temporary) pets of (almost) every Foe in the game!

 

 

Ever used Confusion on the Banished Pantheon LTs who summon minions? Confuse them before they aggro and they'll summon minions and get into a fight with them!

Ever used Confusion on Sky Raider Engineers? Confuse them before they aggro and they'll summon Force Field Generators that work FOR YOU!

Ever used Confusion on Malta Sappers? Confuse them before they aggro and they'll sap your Foes FOR YOU!

 

In other words, with Confusion (and Mass Comedy @ level 32) ... EVERY FOE IN THE GAME can be your "Pets" ... and they'll fight for you.

You don't "summon" Pets like a Mastermind (or an Illusion Controller) ... you TURN your adversaries into your Pets.

 

As a Mind Controller, you're playing a game of "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too" rather than attempting to drag along an entourage of (perma) Pets.

 

 

 

Now, granted, Illusion Control has a confuse power too, but it's single target only ... you don't get Mass Comedy for turning clusters of Foes into Confusion Pets.

But a single target confusion power slotted with the Persuasive Confusion proc means that ALL opposition is vulnerable to "switching sides" and fighting for you.

Mind Control stacks Mass Comedy on top of that.

If you were really committed to the "confused Foes ARE PETS" interpretation (because you can't "direct traffic" the way a Mastermind can) you could even reach for World of Confusion in Psionic Mastery in order to "pull out all the stops" on being a Confused Pets Controller.

 

 

 

And if everything around you either "is your Confuse Pet" (or is going to become your Confuse Pet, you just haven't gotten to them yet...) ... and if you're taking a "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too" attitude about your build to its logical conclusion, then probably the most "maximizing" option of secondary is going to be ... Kinetics.

 

Their power, is your power (and then some!).

Their people ARE YOUR PEOPLE (they just need ... convincing ...).

Whatever they can do ... they can do it FOR YOU.

 

 

 

Seen from that perspective, Mind Control gets to make (temporary, disposable) "pets" out of every enemy group in the game (aggro free, unlike Plant Control) starting at Level 8 ... and then it just NEVER STOPS. 😱

 

What's mine is mine ... and what's yours is mine too.

Think about it.

[Captain Fabulous]

Dark/Dark/Soul. Lots of pets to be had.

[Speed Freak]

Thanks  for your input folks, you've given me a lot to think about. I kinda figured ill dark would be mentioned but  MIND CONTROL and  KINETICS has certainly given me something to think about as well!!

[Psyonico]

I'd probably go Illusion/Dark or Dark/Dark.

 

Illusion/Dark is just stupidly powerful and Dark/Dark is a great candidate as well, fewer pets, but more lockdown.

[Maelwys]

33 minutes ago, Speed Freak said:

MIND CONTROL

To be fair, Seeds of Confusion has the same base duration as Mass Confusion but it's faster casting and up four times as often.
And Plant Control gets multiple "proper" pets too.

The downside is that going Plant/ will likely show up any of your other 7 Controller Teammates who are NOT going Plant/... 😜

[Redlynne]

2 hours ago, Speed Freak said:

Thanks  for your input folks, you've given me a lot to think about. I kinda figured ill dark would be mentioned but  MIND CONTROL and  KINETICS has certainly given me something to think about as well!!

 

"It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."

 

 

 

"It is by the use of my powers that thoughts acquire speed, my Foes acquire purple bubbles, the bubbles become a plague upon my them. It is by my will alone that I set their minds in motion."

- Mind/Kinetics Controller mantra

 

 

 

"So, uh ... what kind of a controller are you?"

 

{ smirks }

 

"I'm a Master Mind Controller ..."

Edited November 29 by Redlynne

[Maelwys]

[Frosticus]

If you goal is a lot of summons that do stuff then also consider ill/traps. 

 

Another would be symphony. The pet mirrors your powers, not just in that it has more or less the same suite of controls, but it will only use them if you cast it first.

Edited November 29 by Frosticus

[Doomguide2005]

I'm running a Symphony/Dark and it has two solid pets and a Confuse power.  It is also a lot of fun

[Octogoat]

Currently trying an ill/dark it's not mastermindy but at the same time is kinda

[EmperorSteele]

I dunno about Mind Control, espeially paired with Kin.

 

I only say that because, as my Main, I'd call that combo more of a blaster than an MM.

 

If you want to go Mind, I'd reccomend a secondary that debuffs enemy resistance. Kin works against Mind in this regard as you're making your foes weaker and less able to defeat one another. Either that, or get as many AoEs as possible to leverage all your extra damage.

 

Also, if your whole idea is confusing FF generators, Malta Sappers, and Ritki Guardians for thier buffs and debuffs, get ready for the dissapointment that comes from your team targeting them before they can do anything for you.

 

I'd probably just echo Illu or Plant.

[Redlynne]

36 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

I dunno about Mind Control, especially paired with Kin.

 

I only say that because, as my Main, I'd call that combo more of a blaster than an MM.

To be fair, all Controllers are "blasters that mez as a side effect" ... although some are better than others at it (blast vs mez mix).

 

36 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

If you want to go Mind, I'd reccomend a secondary that debuffs enemy resistance. Kin works against Mind in this regard as you're making your foes weaker and less able to defeat one another. Either that, or get as many AoEs as possible to leverage all your extra damage.

Depends on what you want to do.

Debuff Them so as to Buff Us means that Kinetics is the smart play. You "steal" their power (and allegiance) to make it your own.

Debuff Them (only) so as to make them defeat each other faster means that Trick Arrow starts pushing into the foreground, along with Poison.

 

However, context matters for all of this.

 

If the intention is to Team-8 with 7 other Controllers all the way to 50 and beyond, there's going to be "no shortage" of lockdown and Containment going on. It's going to be City of Statues all day long, just because of the sheer amount of mez getting tossed and stacked onto the bonfire of the vanities. Under those conditions, where Foes are "denied action" as a matter of routine, Confusion becomes a decent mitigation against alpha strike retaliation (as does AoE Hold powers) but rapidly loses its value when everything turns into City of Statues and it all devolves into a DPS Blasterfest.

 

If Foes are hard control locked down as a matter of routine, then debuffing them to buff the Team-8 becomes a decent play to make, so Kinetics retains a lot of value (especially with Speed Boost making AoE control powers recharge so much faster!).

 

If Foes are hard control locked down as a matter of routine, then debuffing them as hard as possible to make them more vulnerable to Team-8 damage output becomes a decent play to make, so Trick Arrow, Poison, Radiation and Dark start looking like favorable options for secondary.

 

If Foes are hard control locked down as a matter of routine, but you want to still be doing debuffs to them and buffs to your Team-8 without relying on Foes to "steal" power from ... try Time Manipulation (with perma Hasten, perma Farsight and perma Chrono Shift) for a "self reliant" buff/debuff mix.

 

 

 

Of course, the ultimate kick in the shins for a Team-8 of Controllers would be if they ALL take Maneuvers, Assault and Tactics in order to 8x stack those Leadership powers so as to ROFLstomp everything they encounter as a group.

 

 

 

Key point being that as Mez gets stacked and hard control lockdown becomes less of an issue (because, Team-8 of Controllers) the importance and prominence of your choice of secondary will become increasingly apparent, which is where (damage and recharge) buffs to Team as well as resistance and regeneration debuffs to Foes starts to increase in value, so as to speed up the steamroller. The challenge then becomes ... how to deal with Scrapperlock ... or simply getting ahead of the group (or Going The Other Way™, deliberately or unwittingly) or otherwise getting separated from the Team-8 steamroller scenario. Having backup options for being able to solo when the Team-8 splits up is not a bad thing.

Edited November 30 by Redlynne
pytos

[tidge]

Not a Controller, but my Storm/Storm Defender is one of the most Controller-like AT I've ever played. It is, in some ways, better at Control than my Mind/Poison Controller... which is a good character to play, but it has an oddball assortment of controls, and no pets to speak of aside from Confuses.

[SeraphimKensai]

Controller combos worth consideration:

• Plant/Storm 
• Plant/Trick Arrow
• Plant/Nature
• Fire/Eec Affinity
• Fire/Thermal
• Fire/Kinetics
• Illusion/Rad
• Illusion/Poison
• Illusion/Traps
• Illusion/Dark
• Electric/Trick Arrow
• Electric/Poison
• Electric/Storm
• Gravity/Storm
• Dark/Dark
• Dark/Rad
• Dark/Storm

Looking over this list it's clear I have a preference for secondaries which leverage some form of debuff. I have 12 of these built out and added a couple other variations that seem interesting.