Player Feedback Request: Protector of Paragon City

[Burnt Umber]

With two badgers - one exclusively for Blueside and one exclusively for Redside - this topic feels as if it were made for me.

 

As previously noted above, either Dignified Combatant from Graham Easton's arc or No One Left Behind from Roy Cooling's arc would be great substitutes representing choosing heroics and going above and beyond.  Alternatively, War Wall Defender, Do No Harm, or Emancipator are older accomplishment badges that capture the idea of the character engaging in larger-scale heroics.

 

I really appreciate badges that imply a need to change a character's morality to get are being re-evaluated.  They are something of an annoyance for me.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2024 by Burnt Umber

[Dev Unitas]

1 hour ago, Burnt Umber said:

I really appreciate badges that imply a need to change a character's morality to get are being re-evaluated.  They are something of an annoyance for me.

To be perfectly clear on this- we aren't holding a blanket policy of 'no morality swapping required' for badges, whether past, present or future, nor are we looking to make major changes to a number of badges with alignment swapping as an expectation. This is specifically about the purpose, theme and intent of this particular badge, which I myself added last Page.

[Dev Unitas]

Returning to this feedback thread with a proposed pair of solutions, and looking for thoughts on which people prefer:

FIRST: The simple, clean option. I will replace the Shauna Braun arc badge with the Roy Cooling arc badge. The other 5 badges remain as-is, no further changes.

SECOND: I rework the badge entirely so that the critera are as follows:

1. Force of Justice Badge

2. Gallant Badge

3. Guardian of Forever Badge

4. Any 3 of the player's choice of the following badges:

• Helping Hand (Roy Cooling)
• Singular Vision (Special Agent Jenni Adair)
• Beyond Reasonable Doubt (Shauna Braun)
• The Greater Good (Agent Watkins)
• Dignified Combatant (Graham Easton)
• Skull Buster (Eagle Eye)
• The Center's Nemesis (Provost Marchand - Primal Earth Arc 3)
• Pollster (John Houston)
• Bicentennial (History Badge)

Open to discussion on this and/or variations on that second option. If providing alternative design suggestions for the second philosophy, the design staples I'm sticking to are:

• Requiring the Force of Justice Accolade - Non-negotiable at this time
• Requiring the Gallant Badge - Non-negotiable at this time
• Strongly encouraging, if not requiring the Guardian of Forever Badge and the Bicentennial Badge as options to take despite their length/level of effort/tedium
• I'm quite interested in replacing arc badges with the 'challenge' badges related to said arc, if people are accepting of that, but would want feedback on if that'd be 'too much' in addition to the three currently required badges.

 

Thanks again to those who contributed to the original conversation. It was a tremendous help!

[ZamuelNow]

3 hours ago, Dev Unitas said:

FIRST: The simple, clean option. I will replace the Shauna Braun arc badge with the Roy Cooling arc badge. The other 5 badges remain as-is, no further changes.

 

I like the first option since should be easier explain and update.

[Dev Unitas]

2 minutes ago, ZamuelNow said:

 

I like the first option since should be easier explain and update.

It's definitely easier to explain and write a concise hint for, but in terms of effort required for the update, try not to factor in the workload on my end, as it'd likely not be enough to impact a release date for the change. 

 

I suppose the question comes down to: Does the relative ease of understanding, conciseness and clarity of the hint and explanation in Option 1 justify less freedom of choice in a game where people play so many alts?

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, Dev Unitas said:

Returning to this feedback thread with a proposed pair of solutions, and looking for thoughts on which people prefer:

 

The player option of picking any of the 3 in that set of choices seems to provide a good deal of flexibility.

 

However, I'm not a badger, and I don't hunt accolades. I would just handle it whatever way is easier for you.

 

 

[ZamuelNow]

22 minutes ago, Dev Unitas said:

I suppose the question comes down to: Does the relative ease of understanding, conciseness and clarity of the hint and explanation in Option 1 justify less freedom of choice in a game where people play so many alts?

 

Personally, I'd value clarity but I'm not a heavy badger.  I'm also one of the people who suggested Roy Cooling so I'll wholly admit to having some bias.

[Frozen Burn]

46 minutes ago, Dev Unitas said:

It's definitely easier to explain and write a concise hint for, but in terms of effort required for the update, try not to factor in the workload on my end, as it'd likely not be enough to impact a release date for the change. 

 

I suppose the question comes down to: Does the relative ease of understanding, conciseness and clarity of the hint and explanation in Option 1 justify less freedom of choice in a game where people play so many alts?

 

I don't know how I missed this thread back in November when you started this, but THANK YOU for this!  I have several Hero-only toons that I want to get Sheer Willpower on but will struggle with this due to that arc limitation.  🙂

 

As for the proposed 2 options... I do like option 1 for the clarity and ease of implementing.  But option 2 does have it merits with having the freedom to get any 3 from the list - it allows Heroes to sort of choose their own path to get the badge which is very attractive.   Option 2 also kind of breaks from the norm of most accolade badges which have only one way to achieve - so I like that it's different and new.  

 

Honestly, I'll be happy with either option.  But Manticore with an arrow to my head - I'd lean towards option 2.  🙂  

[Rudra]

Given my druthers, I would choose option 2. Players having more choice in their character progression/means of badge attainment is always a good thing. However, it also makes more sense to simply replace a set mission badge requirement with another set mission badge requirement. For starters, because as already stated, it makes it much easier to give guidance for someone trying to get the badge. Looking at the badge window and seeing "Obtain this badge by earning the following" is both simpler to fit in the box and understand than "Obtain this badge by earning the following and some of these other following".

 

Option 2 caters more to experienced players' personal character development goals, but option 1 is far easier universally to deal with. (And by universally I mean for you as a dev to implement and us as players to understand from the in game provided data without having to search guides and wikis to figure out.) (So I guess that makes my opinion a wash. Sorry.)

[Captain Fabulous]

I think my vote is for #1, if for no other reason than ease and simplicity. Sometimes giving too many options isn't the best way to go. It'll just wind up being confusing to the casual players who make up the majority of the playerbase, IMHO.

[PresidentDSG]

For a badge requirement, simplicity is key.

 

It also fits with every other accolade- You can't pick and choose which badges count for Task Force Commander.

[Rudra]

59 minutes ago, PresidentDSG said:

You can't pick and choose which badges count for Task Force Commander.

Yes you can. Either Positron 1 and 2 or Old Positron. I think you can also choose between Penelope Yin or Sister Psyche.

[Derek Icelord]

I'll reiterate my support for using Roy Cooling's arc and vote for option #1.

[Jacke]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Yes you can.  [Pick and chose which Badges count for Task Force Commander.] Either Positron 1 and 2 or Old Positron. I think you can also choose between Penelope Yin or Sister Psyche.

 

Absolutely true.

 

On 5/20/2025 at 10:57 AM, Dev Unitas said:

FIRST: The simple, clean option. I will replace the Shauna Braun arc badge with the Roy Cooling arc badge. The other 5 badges remain as-is, no further changes.

 

@Dev Unitas, I think that the First Option is the best for changing the requirements for the Protector of Paragon City Badge, swapping the need for the Shauna Braun Badge Beyond Reasonable Doubt for the Roy Cooling Badge Helping Hands,.

• Simpler.
• For those running "True Blue" Heroes, it satisfies their need to avoid changing from Hero Alignment.
• Some of the Badge choices for the Second Option require non-Hero Alignment.
  • Beyond Reasonable Doubt (Shauna Braun)
    • Toon has to be a Vigilante.
  • Pollster (John Houston)
    • Toon has to be a Rogue
• Badges with complex and variable options can be confusing.
  • Like avoiding either the Shauna Braun Badge or the John Houston Badge for "True Blue" Heroes.
  • Unlocking the Protector of Paragon City Badge is already rather complex.
    • An Accolade Badge depending on having another Accolade Badge requiring many Safeguard mission runs, besdies the many other Badges needed.
    • The options being considered increase the complexity of both implementing the Badge in the Game and unlocking the Badge on a Toon.
      • Such complexity leads to higher chances of error in both.

An example complexity that some Players might miss:

• The Tarnished Star Badge requires, before running the arc to get it, the Toon has already completed a lot of other content.
  • To fill the cells of the Zig with a whole host of villains.
• Two of those villains are the CoT Mage Rollister and Dr. Vahzilok.
• At the top of this post, I replied to @Rudra about the equivalence of doing Posi 1 + Posi 2 or the Original Posi TF by Flashback for the Task Force Commander Accolade Badge.
• BUT they are not equivalent for the purposes of the Tarnished Star Badge.
• Either Posi 1 + Posi 2 or the Original Posi TF will put Rollister in the Zig.
• But only Posi 2 does that for Dr. Vahzilok.
  • Too bad completing the L15-19 Arc "The Vahzilok Plague" doesn't count for Dr. Vahzilok.
    • There are so many contacts for it, too.  😺
      • Such was the way of the original City of Heroes Contacts.  ❤️

I think it would be better to keep the change to unlocking Protector of Paragon City, as well as the complete requirements, as simple as possible.  While still being right.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:09 PM by Jacke

[Sharh]

As a Vigilante i don't like the requirements for Protector of Paragon either. It requires me to do 10 hero alignment missions (switch back to hero) AND choose the hero option and spare that POS at end of Shauna Braun arc. I refused (thats why im a Vigilante in the fist place) , i chucked that dudes ass off the penthouse to Lusca.

 

I would like a non compromising way to get Sheer Willpower tho.

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, Sharh said:

As a Vigilante i don't like the requirements for Protector of Paragon either. It requires me to do 10 hero alignment missions (switch back to hero) AND choose the hero option and spare that POS at end of Shauna Braun arc. I refused (thats why im a Vigilante in the fist place) , i chucked that dudes ass off the penthouse to Lusca.

 

I would like a non compromising way to get Sheer Willpower tho.

Given the badge's description is "You have shown true dedication to the protection of Paragon City, without sacrificing the morals that the city is founded and established on.", doesn't it make sense to have a Hero alignment required requirement to get the badge? It doesn't seem to be an everyone for every theme badge to me. And Vigilantes routinely sacrifice the city's established morals in their pursuit of their brand of justice.

 

(Edit: Also, are you sure you have to go back to Hero alignment doing the tips for the badge? The badge requirement says it simply needs you to complete a Hero alignment morality. You do have the option of not changing your alignment when completing a morality of a different alignment. I do that with my vigilante characters all the time. Do Hero tip missions because I think the Vigilante ones suck for theme, and when I complete the morality, click to retain my current alignment instead of change.)

 

Edited yesterday at 06:01 AM by Rudra

[PresidentDSG]

19 hours ago, Rudra said:

Yes you can. Either Positron 1 and 2 or Old Positron. I think you can also choose between Penelope Yin or Sister Psyche.

 

No, both versions of the positron task force offer the same badge.

 

Pike and Penelope Yin are technically different baggage yes.

 

But both are also just pre and post rework versions of the same piece of content, not an entirely different task force.

[Uun]

9 hours ago, Sharh said:

As a Vigilante i don't like the requirements for Protector of Paragon either. It requires me to do 10 hero alignment missions (switch back to hero) AND choose the hero option and spare that POS at end of Shauna Braun arc. I refused (thats why im a Vigilante in the fist place) , i chucked that dudes ass off the penthouse to Lusca.

 

I would like a non compromising way to get Sheer Willpower tho.

You can get Strike Force Commander (Deep Strike Agent) as a Vigilante. You don't have to switch to Rogue or Villain.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, PresidentDSG said:

 

No, both versions of the positron task force offer the same badge.

 

Pike and Penelope Yin are technically different baggage yes.

 

But both are also just pre and post rework versions of the same piece of content, not an entirely different task force.

I concede Positron, I forgot we got the same badge for either way we tackle it. However, you are being extremely pedantic about Sister Psyche and Penelope Yin. (And this from someone that is often pedantic.) Sister Psyche's TF is 14 tasks long to Penelope Yin's 4. The goal may be the same, but the gained badge and the route taken to get there is not.

[Jacke]

Spot on about Sister Psyche's TF via Flashback and Penelope Yin's TF, @Rudra.

 

18 hours ago, Rudra said:

I concede Positron, I forgot we got the same badge for either way we tackle it.

 

Do not concede Positron!

 

Doing the original Positron TF by Flashback--the Team Exemplared to L15--yields:

• Positron's Ally Accomplishment Badge
• 60 Reward Merits (I wonder if this is included when "Positron's Task Force" is WST...?)
• Souvenir Dam piece
• Also the defeat of CoT Mage Rollister for a prerequisite for another Badge.

While doing Positron TF Part One--the Team Exemplared to L15--yields:

• Rule of 3 Accomplishment Badge
• 11 Reward Merits (when not doubled as first WST)
• Souvenir Azuria's Thank You Card.

And then doing Positron TF Part Two--the Team Exemplared to L16--yields:

• Temporary Power Jet Pack (probably with 120 minutes available)
• Dam Hero Accomplishment Badge
• 15 Reward Merits (when not doubled as first WST)
• Souvenir Paragon Times Photograph.
• Also the defeat of CoT Mage Rollister and Dr. Vahzilok for another Badge.

And having both Positron TF Part One and Positron TF Part Two together (may internally check for the Badges or the Souvenirs from them, don't know which for sure) yields the Positron's Ally Accomplishment Badge!

 

Completely equivalent!  ....  NOT quite!  I took a bit of effort to detail above just the very obvious details.  Many of them not the same on both paths.

 

The only equivalency is both paths yield Positron's Ally, which is part of unlocking the Task Force Commander Accolade Badge and its passive Accolade Power granting +5% MaxHP.  Which is what most Players are thinking about when getting them.  Oh, that and the Reward Merits.  But the Reward Merits aren't the same on both paths....

 

And those Reward Merits are based upon the rough amount of time each TF requires to be completed.  Which are different.

 

(And how many people do Posi 1 first when it's WST....  Really should lead at least with Posi 2.  Because you only get WST bonuses for the first WST completed.)

 

(And both parts of the revised Posi TF earn fewer Reward Merits than the Penelope Yin's TF's yield of 20 RMs!  Just barely beat it combined!  And if both run when Posi TF is WST, can get at most 37 RMs or 41 RMs, depending which is run first.  While Penelope's TF when WST is 40 RMs!)

Also, Posi TF Part One has the Team's Doppelgangers to go up against.  While Posi TF Part Two, run Exemplared to L16, has Dr. Vahzilok at the finalé, an AV.

 

While the OG Posi TF (via Flashback) doesn't have anything worse than L15 Bosses in it (unless the Notoriety is turned up).  (A lot of them, though.)  Not even an EB (which hadn't been created at the time the OG Posi TF was originally created).

 

And if you're going after all the Badges....  Or the Souvenirs and the sweet Badges from the count of Souvenirs earned....  Well, you just have to do it both ways!  😺

 

 

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Jacke said:

Do not concede Positron!

I was conceding Positron on badge name grounds. Because if a player does original Positron or does Positron 1 + 2, anyone looking through their badge list won't have any clue which was done. Since the argument given was a player can't choose which badge counts, and the simplest presentation of that argument is by badge name rather than badge acquisition method and net rewards gained for getting it, I have to concede for the name.