Wondering what people's opinions on what to pair with marine on a troller would be?

[SirBronco]

Thinking of electric, fire, ice or plant but not sure which one to play. I like all four kinds of trollers and just wondering what to pair with tide pool. I think bonfire and tide pool would be pretty potent on top of one another. Are there any other powers that seem like there are two powers on top of one another that would do as much damage? Just curious if anyone has played a good combo and have enjoyed it. Thanks for the advice and help. Greatly appreciate it. Have a great holiday season.

[Auroxis]

Fire has been great in my experience, not so much because of Bonfire (its damage is lackluster currently) but because of Hot Feet damage and Imps proccing Shifting Tides. procced Whitecap+ procced Flashfire + procced Fissure (earth epic) is good clear also. Endurance is a bit of an issue though.

 

I also tried out Earth, you can proc out Stalagmites just like Flashfire (ATO proc + other procs + rech/acc/stun purp IO) and Earthquake+Tide Pool+Whitecap is nice soft CC early before you get your recharge rolling.

 

Plant is good also, I tested the Shifting Tides interaction with Carrion Creepers and they do proc it a bit.

 

Illusion is a great pairing, IMO the strongest controller combo, because Whitecap gets you that AoE you need which makes for a really strong all-around character as Illusion pumps out the DPS+Shifting Tide procs while Marine keeps you alive and dishes out AoE damage.

 

I wouldn't recommend Ice Control and Electric Control, they are a bit too CC heavy in my opinion and don't offer that much in the way of offense (no good AoE's to proc out).

[Maelwys]

For sheer damage output I highly suspect Plant has the edge.
The additional damage from Shifting Tides skyrockets the more allies you have due to its rising tide effect.

Not sure if intangible Phantom Army count but Creeper Vines definitely do. And so does Audrey. And maybe Confused Enemies... (haven't tested that personally!)



(Also: try throwing a Gaussian "Chance for Build Up" proc into Shifting Tides with lots of pets wailing on your target and see what happens... 😇 )

The other thing Marine is really good at is adding to pet survivability. It can hardcap Stoney's resistances to everything and cap their MaxHP and shove quite a bit of +Defense and +Absorb their way. Similar deal for Singy. And it might even allow Fire Imps to hang around long enough to matter 😜
 

Edited December 18 by Maelwys

[tidge]

I went Plants/Marine. How it worked for the (pseudo)pets is what has convinced me that Marine is very likely the top tier Secondary for Masterminds. I'm not saying that other secondaries aren't good, just that a well-played MM with another secondary could probably get better results using Marine. It isn't a no-brainer to use, but it is extremely potent.

 

Spoiler

Primary Power Set: Plant Control

Secondary Power Set: Marine Affinity

Power Pool: Force of Will

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Leadership

Power Pool: Fighting

Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

 

------------

Level 1:                 Strangler            

 (A) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50+5

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50+5

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance of Damage (Smashing): Level 50

 

Level 1:                 Shoal Rush

 (A) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance of Damage (Cold)

 (*) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 (*) Shield Breaker - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 

Level 2:                 Roots   

 (A Superior Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Mezz/Endurance: Level 50

 (*)Superior Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Mezz: Level 50

 (*) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

Level 4:                 Toroidal Bubble

 (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

 

Level 6:                 Mighty Leap      

 (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

 (*) Blessing of the Zephyr - Travel/Endurance Reduction

 

Level 8  :               Seeds of Confusion       

 (A) Cacophany - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - %Contagious Confusion: Level 50

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

Level 10:              Whitecap           

 (A) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Chance of Damage (Fire): Level 50

 (*) Scirocco’s Dervish - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Eradication - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Explosive Strike - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 

Level 12:              Project Will

 (A) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage (Negative): Level 50

 (*) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

Level 14:              Wall of Force    

 (A) Accuracy IO: Level 50+5

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Explosive Strike - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 

Level 16:              Tide Pool            

 (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 18:              Vines   

(A) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Mezz: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Mezz/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Mezz/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Mezz/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage: Level 50

 

Level 20:              Brine    

 (A) D-Sync: Siphon (Accuracy/Heal) Level 51

 (*) D-Sync: Siphon (Accuracy/Heal) Level 51

 

Level 22:              Carrion Creepers            

 (A) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance of Damage (Cold)

 

 

 

Level 24:              Shifting Tides

 (A) Positron’s Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

Level 26:              Fly Trap               

 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Shield Breaker - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 

Level 28:              Barrier Reef      

 (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

 

Level 30:              Power of the Depths     

 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

 

Level 32:              Combat Jumping             

 (A) Kismet - ToHit +6%

               

Level 35:              Maneuvers        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

 (*) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

 (*) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

Level 38:              Murky Cloud     

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance

 

 

 

Level 38:              Unleashed Potential     

 (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 (*) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 

 

Level 44:              Boxing 

 (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50+5

 

Level 47:              Tough  

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

 

Level 49:              Weave

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

 

 

 

Level 1:                 Brawl   

 (A)

 

Level 1:                 Sprint   

 (A) Stealth Unique

 

Level 2:                 Rest      

 (A) Interrupt Duration IO

 

Level 2:                 Swift    

 (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 2:                 Hurdle 

 (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 2:                 Health 

 (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance

 (*) Miracle - +Recovery

 

Level 2:                 Stamina              

 (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

 (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod

 

 

[BZRKR]

I have done Fire/ Marine/ Fire and Arsenal/ Marine/ Mace, and while both characters are fun, I like the Arsenal/ Marine better. 

 

Fire/ Marine/ Fire: With the PBAoE powers and Whitecap, this character likes to throw Flashfire into a Tide Pool'd spawn and then Whitecap in, Cinder, and mop up. Fire Imps Love Marine.

 

Arsenal/ Marine/ Mace: This character sneaks up on a spawn with Cloaking Device, Tide Pools, and then opens up with Smoke Canister+Sleep Grenade+Tear Gas to completely bamboozle the spawn, and then his Tri-Cannon and Toxic Tarantula (both of which love Marine) get to work.

[SeraphimKensai]

On 12/18/2024 at 8:24 AM, tidge said:

I went Plants/Marine. How it worked for the (pseudo)pets is what has convinced me that Marine is very likely the top tier Secondary for Masterminds. I'm not saying that other secondaries aren't good, just that a well-played MM with another secondary could probably get better results using Marine. It isn't a no-brainer to use, but it is extremely potent.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Primary Power Set: Plant Control

Secondary Power Set: Marine Affinity

Power Pool: Force of Will

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Leadership

Power Pool: Fighting

Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

 

------------

Level 1:                 Strangler            

 (A) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50+5

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50+5

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance of Damage (Smashing): Level 50

 

Level 1:                 Shoal Rush

 (A) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance of Damage (Cold)

 (*) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 (*) Shield Breaker - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 

Level 2:                 Roots   

 (A Superior Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Mezz/Endurance: Level 50

 (*)Superior Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Mezz: Level 50

 (*) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

Level 4:                 Toroidal Bubble

 (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

 

Level 6:                 Mighty Leap      

 (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

 (*) Blessing of the Zephyr - Travel/Endurance Reduction

 

Level 8  :               Seeds of Confusion       

 (A) Cacophany - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - %Contagious Confusion: Level 50

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

Level 10:              Whitecap           

 (A) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Chance of Damage (Fire): Level 50

 (*) Scirocco’s Dervish - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Eradication - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Explosive Strike - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 

Level 12:              Project Will

 (A) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage (Negative): Level 50

 (*) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

Level 14:              Wall of Force    

 (A) Accuracy IO: Level 50+5

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Explosive Strike - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 

Level 16:              Tide Pool            

 (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 18:              Vines   

(A) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Mezz: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Mezz/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Mezz/Endurance: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Mezz/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage: Level 50

 

Level 20:              Brine    

 (A) D-Sync: Siphon (Accuracy/Heal) Level 51

 (*) D-Sync: Siphon (Accuracy/Heal) Level 51

 

Level 22:              Carrion Creepers            

 (A) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance of Damage (Cold)

 

 

 

Level 24:              Shifting Tides

 (A) Positron’s Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

Level 26:              Fly Trap               

 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Shield Breaker - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 

Level 28:              Barrier Reef      

 (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

 

Level 30:              Power of the Depths     

 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

 (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

 

Level 32:              Combat Jumping             

 (A) Kismet - ToHit +6%

               

Level 35:              Maneuvers        

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

 (*) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

 (*) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

Level 38:              Murky Cloud     

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance

 

 

 

Level 38:              Unleashed Potential     

 (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 (*) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 

 

Level 44:              Boxing 

 (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50+5

 

Level 47:              Tough  

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

 

Level 49:              Weave

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

 

 

 

Level 1:                 Brawl   

 (A)

 

Level 1:                 Sprint   

 (A) Stealth Unique

 

Level 2:                 Rest      

 (A) Interrupt Duration IO

 

Level 2:                 Swift    

 (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 2:                 Hurdle 

 (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 2:                 Health 

 (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance

 (*) Miracle - +Recovery

 

Level 2:                 Stamina              

 (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

 (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod

 

 

I swear there is honestly no bad secondary to pair with plants. I have a Plants/TA, Plants/Nature, Plants/Storm, and contemplating a Plants/Marine now.

[tidge]

Plants is IMO OP for a few reasons: Seeds of Confusion having a rather large AoE (plus target cap) on top of a base 1.0 accuracy is just crazy good for a low-tier control. Vines and Roots have the more-typical base values, but it is easy to shrug that off when (a) they are no different than other similar Control powers, (b) so much of the set kinda doesn't draw aggro to the character... a Sleep, the Confuse (kinda), Spirit Tree, Carrion Creepers and Fly Trap.

 

As @Maelwys noted Marine Affinity's Shifting Tides does some great things depending on what else the player has in it (pets, pseduopets, henchmen, allies) and because of the way Plant Control works, it seemed like a no-brainer test case for me to try Marine Affinity. I hadn't planned to put %damage in it, but I almost always test... and I found that the %damage was still able to be applied after cast, including if the anchor was defeated. My Controllers are always looking for just a little more damage, so that's how I ended up with the slotting in Shiting Tides I shared above; it is weirdly similar to Carrion Creepers. Plant/Marine ended up being a lot more 'fire-and-forget' than I expected.

[Frosticus]

@SirBronco Of the ones listed I would do fire/marine, it has the most synergy and fire gains the most from marine.

That isn't to say it is the strongest, for that you'd want illusion. If you've never done an illusion playthrough marine is pretty great with it. 

Yes PA will fill up your shifting tides stacks (almost instantly), no issues. Ill/marine is probably in the running for top combo in the game when you consider st damage, aoe clear, team buffing and personal survival as a package. 

 

Lots of good marine pairings though, it offers a lot. 

[Carnifax]

I'm strongly considering Dark / Marine ( @Meknomancer was right, Storm / Marine has a LOT of set-up). Tide Pool -> Whitecap -> Heart of Darkness sounds fun and you get 3 pets. 

 

Fire would probably be better but I'm wary of End woes trying to run Hotfeet + Shifting Tides. Going to try these on beta later (these are cobbled together, likely I'll fiddle around with them once I decide)

 

 

Controller (Fire Control - Marine Affinity).mbd Controller (Darkness Control - Marine Affinity).mbd

[Onlyasandwich]

3 hours ago, Carnifax said:

Dark / Marine ( @Meknomancer was right, Storm / Marine has a LOT of set-up). Tide Pool -> Whitecap -> Heart of Darkness sounds

 

Yeah - I like storm blast best on sentinels for this reason. At least there you can really focus on the blasts and nothing else.

 

Both of these combos have a lot of thematic possibility! Could be the ghostly survivor of a ship that burned in the ocean - I like it. Dark could even come off as a little bit "evil storm" with the right tint.

 

The main functional advantage fire would have is the lack of reliance on cones. Marine really wants to splash in wist Whitecap asap to get the frenzy and debuffs going, and fire can just sort of do that without caring about positioning. Still, Dark can always do its normal setup and follow up with the splash-in.

 

Even with the extra end consumption of Shifting tides to account for, I think Fire/ would work out okay though. Between Toroidial, a perf shifter popped into Toroidal, and extra support from Power of the depths, you have a very solid package to make up for your expensive toggles.

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 01:48 PM by Onlyasandwich

[Carnifax]

Hmmm. Run a few tests now on Beta with Shifting Tides & Procs and neither the Parser nor just going through the logs via Find All shows any instances of Bombardment or Positrons working with it. This was running a 0x8 mission solo. I can see the base damage for Shifting but no procs (and the damage is fairly consistent with just having a set slotted). 

 

So I'm dubious that Procs work in Shifting at all to be honest. I can see them working happily in other pets (so it's not like I forgot to log them), just looks to me like Shifting Tides is not proc compatible. Happy to be proven wrong but cannot for the life of me see them getting logged anywhere (it's the only instance of Bombardment I have slotted so it should show up). 

 

Has anyone seen evidence that Shifting Tides works when procced up? Makes sense to me from a balance point of view if they didn't, since it'll trigger from any attacks not just your own. 

[Auroxis]

Shifting Tides acts like a damage aura for procs, it rolls them every 10s. So damage procs aren't very good, but buff procs like gauss and def/corr ATO's proc very often since they get more rolls per nearby target.

[Carnifax]

9 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

Shifting Tides acts like a damage aura for procs, it rolls them every 10s. So damage procs aren't very good, but buff procs like gauss and def/corr ATO's proc very often since they get more rolls per nearby target.

This could be it. In fact, since the aura doesn't actually do damage it could be even worse : The proc works as per an Aura, on a once every 10 seconds basis, but since the aura doesn't do damage itself it'll never roll (in the same way a Posi's won't trigger off Oil Slick until you get the burn going, then it's test once every 10 seconds)

 

More testing required, I haven't seen anything trigger off it yet. 

[Onlyasandwich]

8 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

This could be it. In fact, since the aura doesn't actually do damage it could be even worse

I'm pretty sure damage procs won't work at all here.

 

This is because isn't doing direct targeted aoe damage itself, and it doesn't summon any entities that use a targeted aoe power. Therefore targeted aoe procs just won't go off.

 

Instead, it uses the single target power "shifting  tides" referenced here in CoD. Now, I'm not 100% certain how it is applied (autohit, accuracy check? I don't see any autohit flags so think it may actually appreciate acc) but it is a single target effect. I would assume that it properly inherits the ED you put into it, as otherwise slotting for damage would be pointless. However, proc mechanics require that a power of the matching type exist for them to trigger. 

 

In this case, Shifting Tides is a targeted aoe from a slotting perspective only - I guess it's just the closest thing they figured that makes sense for sets, even though it isn't one in technical terms.

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 02:38 PM by Onlyasandwich

[Auroxis]

Damage procs definitely worked when I tested it, but they had a minimal proc rate and only checked once every 10 seconds as mentioned above. 

[tidge]

On 12/20/2024 at 2:00 PM, Carnifax said:

So I'm dubious that Procs work in Shifting at all to be honest. I can see them working happily in other pets (so it's not like I forgot to log them), just looks to me like Shifting Tides is not proc compatible. Happy to be proven wrong but cannot for the life of me see them getting logged anywhere (it's the only instance of Bombardment I have slotted so it should show up). 

 

Has anyone seen evidence that Shifting Tides works when procced up? Makes sense to me from a balance point of view if they didn't, since it'll trigger from any attacks not just your own. 

 

%damage does work in Shifting Tides.  IIRC, the combat messages for it are in the PET category, but it has been a while since I felt the need to review the logs for my /Marine controller.

 

I hadn't planned to add %damage (see my slotting above) to Shifting Tides, but I found it to be a pretty reliable source of extra damage for my Controller, The test that convinced me to lean into it as a source of %damage was against a relatively small group of street enemies... I mention this because usually these types of powers require relatively large spawn sizes to get a feel for reliability... but because it was toggled on an enemy, and persisted as long as the enemy body didn't de-rezz, the extra %damage in the wide area of effect was noticeable. Perhaps if the enemies are all being destroyed quickly without need for extra damage, or the spawn sizes are exceptionally small and/or not in the area of Shifting Tides, it might be easy to miss.

 

On 12/20/2024 at 3:09 PM, Auroxis said:

Damage procs definitely worked when I tested it, but they had a minimal proc rate and only checked once every 10 seconds as mentioned above. 

 

I can't remember precisely (I got bored with that character, sorry!) But I want to say that my impression was that  the %damage output  in Shifting Tides was better than something like a more classic 'pseudo-pet' such as Caltrops. It could be the wider area, or the persistence, or all the other stuff also happening in Shifting Tides, but once I tested it with a simgle %damage piece I like what I was seeing.

 

The net effectiveness was counter-intuitive to me, so I kept an eye on it across a somewhat large range of content with the result being that I kept it as franken-slotted. I probably wouldn't make this choice on a different AT (for example, probably not on a MM) but for a Controller that solos, yes. There are a handful of these sorts of powers that I wasn't expecting to be good candidates for %damage but turn out to be rather reliable. As I was going to be casting it anyway, getting the extra damage as long as it lasts is a pretty good use of the slots IMO.

[Auroxis]

18 minutes ago, tidge said:

I can't remember precisely (I got bored with that character, sorry!) But I want to say that my impression was that  the %damage output  in Shifting Tides was better than something like a more classic 'pseudo-pet' such as Caltrops. It could be the wider area, or the persistence, or all the other stuff also happening in Shifting Tides, but once I tested it with a simgle %damage piece I like what I was seeing.

 

The net effectiveness was counter-intuitive to me, so I kept an eye on it across a somewhat large range of content with the result being that I kept it as franken-slotted. I probably wouldn't make this choice on a different AT (for example, probably not on a MM) but for a Controller that solos, yes. There are a handful of these sorts of powers that I wasn't expecting to be good candidates for %damage but turn out to be rather reliable. As I was going to be casting it anyway, getting the extra damage as long as it lasts is a pretty good use of the slots IMO.

Outside of %Damage and Endurance Reduction (I prefer going for set bonuses over frankenslotting here), you can also fit the Gauss Build-Up proc into it since it has a very high chance of giving you the buff every 10 seconds, more-so in teams much like Tactics.

 

On MM it's very similar, but on Defenders and Corruptors it gets interesting as they can slot their team heal/buff ATO's in there to trigger often. Corruptor basically gains another team endurance recovery power with some periodic healing with just 1 slot, and Defender can choose to grant the team more passive AoE healing and Absorb with two ATO placements.

[Onlyasandwich]

I'm glad to hear some folks have had success with %damage procs here! I was just inferring what I could from the CoD info, which is a bit hard to parse on this one.

 

I don't see any reference to a pseudopet in CoD, which is weird if it actually shows under pet damage when %damage procs trigger.

 

It does show some direct damage (18 damage after .5s) so I guess this is what is triggering the procs? It's a bit odd though - I'm not sure that it's actually doing damage like a damage aura. The effect as I understand it is a chance of bonus damage triggered when an affected mob is attacked.

 

In short, I have no idea how it is actually working behind the scenes.

 

The "shifting tides" power that it points to for the enemy effect has them "set mode (shifting tides)" which triggers the proc event for the shifting tides damage upon the next click attack. However, I don't know where to get CoD info on this "mode" and what it actually does in detail.

 

I wonder if @Bopper or others might have some insight into how it functions.

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Onlyasandwich

[Auroxis]

17 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

I'm glad to hear some folks have had success with %damage procs here! I was just inferring what I could from the CoD info, which is a bit hard to parse on this one.

 

I don't see any reference to a pseudopet in CoD, which is weird if it actually shows under pet damage when %damage procs trigger.

 

It does show some direct damage (18 damage after .5s) so I guess this is what is triggering the procs? It's a bit odd though - I'm not sure that it's actually doing damage like a damage aura. The effect as I understand it is a chance of bonus damage triggered when an affected mob is attacked.

 

In short, I have no idea how it is actually working behind the scenes.

 

The "shifting tides" power that it points to for the enemy effect has them "set mode (shifting tides)" which triggers the proc event for the shifting tides damage upon the next click attack. However, I don't know where to get CoD info on this "mode" and what it actually does in detail.

 

I wonder if @Bopper or others might have some insight into how it functions.

 

 

 

 

To be clear, I slot mine for %damage Enhancement, NOT damage procs. And as I stated, I HAVE tested damage procs, and they work as I stated: Minimal chance of activation, every 10 seconds, just like how damage auras operate.

 

If the damage aura comparison doesn't work for you, think of it like a Rain power ala Rain of Fire and Ice Storm. Except instead of dealing a little bit of damage every fraction of a second, it can deal a moderate amount of damage every fraction of a second, only when triggered by something attacking the target.

Edited 13 hours ago by Auroxis

[Xandyr]

I'm curious to know how everyone slots Shifting Tides.

[Auroxis]

2 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

I'm curious to know how everyone slots Shifting Tides.

• On Controller I use 5-piece Ragnarok + Gauss Proc
• On MM it depends, but generally same as above (Thugs like using the gauss proc in Enforcers)
• On Corruptor I use 3-piece ATO (end/heal proc), Purple Damage Enhancement (semi frankenslot to maximize damage), and Gauss Proc can go here or in Aim depending on preference (I prefer to skip Aim on my Fire/Marine because between Pool+Whitecap+Inferno cast time I spend enough time setting up a nuke).
• On Defender i've yet to decide, slotting ATO's in it is good for passive heal/absorb but isn't quite as impactful as the +end corr has, and Gauss Proc consideration is similar to corr (On my Marine/DP I placed it into Dark Epic's Spirit Drain for my Hail of Bullets opener).

[Onlyasandwich]

43 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

aura comparison doesn't work for you,

I definitely understand the basic effect in game of the power itself.

 

I just don't understand the entities and specific behind the scenes mechanics that get it there. Knowing the way these effects are actually executed can help us anticipate how procs work (or not) in it beyond combat parses. It's also interesting to see the creative ways the devs bend these tools to their will. 🙂

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Xandyr said:

I'm curious to know how everyone slots Shifting Tides.

 

My slotting is in an earlier post in this thread: 2x Acc/Dam/EndReduction, 3x %damage. After this, 6x Annihilation would probably be my choice, although I might be swayed by a Knockdown strategy.

 

I almost never bother with the Gaussian's %BuildUp in these sorts of powers for ATs that inherently do relatively little damage... I will have the build such that I don't need the extra ToHit, and if the ATs attacks already do somewhat small amounts of damage, I don't expect that the %+Damage is doing that much (for an AT that won't normally be constantly attacking). I don't think Comtrollers are quite as bad as Masterminds for using the %BuildUp piece, but I think they are probably among the worst choices... not because the proc rate is bad, more that these AT typically don't get that much mileage from it. Opinions may differ, and I like the 6-slot bonuses for the set, it's just that the ultimate yield in performance v. investment almost never strikes me as the best use of slots.

[Carnifax]

5 hours ago, Xandyr said:

I'm curious to know how everyone slots Shifting Tides.

On my Storm/Marine I've gone 5 bombardment (no proc) and gaussian. It's doing a LOT of damage on an 8 man team