-recharge and other debuffs?

[Glacier Peak]

8 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

You are fond of this particular complaint, but always wrong about it.  Many, if not most debuffs, are carried by attacks that need to hit you.  So first line of defense against them... is defense.  Doesn't mean none will ever hit you but it greatly reduces the odds they'll stack on you if only 1 in 5 or 10 hits you.

 

Second, specific debuffs can have specific resistances.   Recharge debuffs are countered by recharge debuff resistance, a.k.a. slow resistance.  Two easiest places to get this are (1) Winter's Gift: Slow resistance IO.  One slot, 20% resist to slow.  Goes in a travel power. (2) The SG Base empowerment station can give you a temporary 20% boost for 90 minutes to slow resistance (and a lot of other useful things too, like say... endurance drain resistance, recovery boost, etc.)  Cost you a bit of minor salvage each time.  Aside from this, slow resistance is found in Winter Set ATOs which are, admittedly, very expensive.   Slow resistance is also found in some armor sets and powers.   I've got a bit in my Rad Armor tankers for example and I build much more on top since I get hit by everything (no defense).  It is possible to attain 100% slow resistance and be affected only by unresistible slows, of which there are very few in the game.

 

Endurance drain is countered by endurance drain resist, which isn't super common or available in IO sets.  But you can increase endurance and endurance recovery.  Having powers that restore endurance is nice too.  Recovery serum temp power from START vendor.  etc. etc. 

 

Solutions abound, in other words.  Look for them.

I think you meant to quote the author of that post - my post was picking out their absolutes that embellished the actual issue.

[ZemX]

59 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I think you meant to quote the author of that post - my post was picking out their absolutes that embellished the actual issue.

 

Derp.  Yeah.  I have edited the post so hopefully it makes a bit more sense.  

[biostem]

It's been a while, but there's a particular level range, (I want to say in the late teens to early 20s), where you're fighting a lot of CoT ghosts and, IIRC, Death Mages, that can just overwhelm you with tohit debuffs, and in that level range, you are sorely lacking the extra powers, slots, and/or IO set bonuses, to adequately combat them.  Similarly, unless you specifically have slow resists, your recharge can also get floored, leaving you nigh incapable of defending yourself...

Edited Thursday at 12:21 AM by biostem

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

Derp.  Yeah.  I have edited the post so hopefully it makes a bit more sense.  

 

[Glacier Peak]

29 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Bad link?

[Luminara]

40 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Bad link?

 

Just having a little fun with the misquote.

[Ultimo]

Ya, it's often multiple enemies.  The other night, my War Mace Brute jumped into a group of bad guys in Steel.  He's L39, so they were all many levels below him.  There were several cold using guys, including a boss, several lieutenants and minions... I didn't count, it was a sizable group.  They had his attacks up to 40 seconds, according to the countdown on the button.  I honestly didn't watch to see if it was actually 40 seconds.  I suppose it might go UP to that, then return to normal after a few seconds when the debuff wears off?  Maybe?

 

Not sure.  Still, I don't recall having anything like this much trouble in the past.

[Hedgefund]

That sounds like an encounter with the Winter Lord who indeed can stack some major -speed/-rch debuffs.  The good news, for you at least, is that the Winter event is over now and they can't hurt you any more.

 

The lesson here is, if you see a gigantic entity, one that sticks out for being about twice as tall as any others, click to see what it is.  If it cons purple and says "Giant Monster" then don't engage unless you know you can handle it.  

Edited Thursday at 12:15 PM by Hedgefund

[Elfis]

The original poster never said he got recharge floored from 1 minion; he said he got end drained in 2 shots from 1 minion, and I definitely remember sappers being able to do that back in the day.

 

I've just been playing the game through again lately, doing every mission from every contact, red and blue side, plain level 25 io's only.  Up to level 34 now.  I have definitely been recharge floored a few times, and if I weren't in the habit of carrying 4 lucks on me minimum, I'm sure I'd find myself in some hell situations.  (For those who haven't seen the main game in years because they spend all their time on max gear characters or in farms, being recharge floored definitely does put all your powers on 20-40 second cooldowns even for basic attacks).

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Elfis said:

The original poster never said he got recharge floored from 1 minion; he said he got end drained in 2 shots from 1 minion, and I definitely remember sappers being able to do that back in the day.

 

I've just been playing the game through again lately, doing every mission from every contact, red and blue side, plain level 25 io's only.  Up to level 34 now.  I have definitely been recharge floored a few times, and if I weren't in the habit of carrying 4 lucks on me minimum, I'm sure I'd find myself in some hell situations.  (For those who haven't seen the main game in years because they spend all their time on max gear characters or in farms, being recharge floored definitely does put all your powers on 20-40 second cooldowns even for basic attacks).

What's the debuff called that lasts 40 seconds and brings a player's recharge rate to -75%?

 

And the original post did not indicate any endurance drain debuff occurring, just to be clear. 

 

The post said ice powers. 

 

Subsequent posts indicated the enemies were below their character's level in Steel Canyon.

 

Outside of Outcasts natively spawning, no other enemy group besides Winter Lord enemies have that ability. Specifically Winter Lord itself has a debuff aura that causes -recharge.

[ZemX]

9 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Ya, it's often multiple enemies.  The other night, my War Mace Brute jumped into a group of bad guys in Steel.  He's L39, so they were all many levels below him.  There were several cold using guys, including a boss, several lieutenants and minions... I didn't count, it was a sizable group.  They had his attacks up to 40 seconds, according to the countdown on the button.  I honestly didn't watch to see if it was actually 40 seconds.  I suppose it might go UP to that, then return to normal after a few seconds when the debuff wears off?  Maybe?

 

No way you're talking about a random street spawn in Steel.  They are at least 20 levels below you.  They can't put a scratch on you let alone debuff you that badly.  Purple Patch says all of their attacks and debuffs are at 1% of their original strength when used against you.  Sure you didn't run into someone else's ambush that was much higher level than the ordinary thugs in Steel?

[Ultimo]

9 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

No way you're talking about a random street spawn in Steel.  They are at least 20 levels below you.  They can't put a scratch on you let alone debuff you that badly.  Purple Patch says all of their attacks and debuffs are at 1% of their original strength when used against you.  Sure you didn't run into someone else's ambush that was much higher level than the ordinary thugs in Steel?

That could be... It was a while ago, I don't recall now.

[Ultimo]

10 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

What's the debuff called that lasts 40 seconds and brings a player's recharge rate to -75%?

 

And the original post did not indicate any endurance drain debuff occurring, just to be clear. 

 

The post said ice powers. 

 

Subsequent posts indicated the enemies were below their character's level in Steel Canyon.

 

Outside of Outcasts natively spawning, no other enemy group besides Winter Lord enemies have that ability. Specifically Winter Lord itself has a debuff aura that causes -recharge.

As I said earlier, I'm not sure the debuff lasted 40 seconds, I'm saying the number on my power (I have it displaying the time to cooldown) said 40 seconds.  I don't know, it might have lasted that long, it might have slowed it to that point, but the buff expired before that.  I left the battle because I couldn't fight back, and wasn't counting the seconds.

 

The endurance thing is something I've seen in a few cases.  I have a Dark Melee/Willpower Brute who, being around L17 at the time, tried to take on 3 Cogs on a rooftop.  All three shot at him, and his endurance dropped to perhaps 10%.  I made one attack, and everything detoggled, and I was out of endurance.  From that point, they just drained any endurance I had with every attack, and I was unable to fight back... so again I had to run away.  Just doesn't feel very heroic, let me tell you.

 

I'm not sure what level the foes in Steel were, I thought they conned grey, but I could be wrong.  The thing was, that group was largely ice bad guys, Outcasts, I believe... Freezers, Chillers, and the like.  With a bunch of them hitting me, my recharge (which is somewhat long anyway, on a War Mace character) was floored.  Again though, I don't know if the debuff lasted as long as that, I'm just telling you what the number said on the power button.

[Uun]

37 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

I'm not sure what level the foes in Steel were, I thought they conned grey, but I could be wrong.  The thing was, that group was largely ice bad guys, Outcasts, I believe... Freezers, Chillers, and the like.  With a bunch of them hitting me, my recharge (which is somewhat long anyway, on a War Mace character) was floored.  Again though, I don't know if the debuff lasted as long as that, I'm just telling you what the number said on the power button.

The story changes every time you tell it. First it was one enemy hitting you once. Now it's a group. Even so, if they conned grey, they wouldn't be able to hit you, let alone debuff you. 

[Luminara]

A level 39 character fighting enemies which cap at level 20 would experience 0.01% of the effects of the enemy debuffs.  Consequently, it would require several hundred NPCs attacking simultaneously to reduce a level 39 character's recharge times on the order of magnitude described.

 

So this player is saying that he somehow found a way to bypass the aggro mechanics and herd every Outcast in the entire zone, multiply them by about 10 in order to assemble a sufficient number of the described foes to cause the claimed effect, and negate the purple patch which reduced their hit chance to 5%.

 

I say ban him for using exploits.

[Ultimo]

On 1/16/2025 at 12:18 AM, Ultimo said:

Ya, it's often multiple enemies.  The other night, my War Mace Brute jumped into a group of bad guys in Steel.  He's L39, so they were all many levels below him.  There were several cold using guys, including a boss, several lieutenants and minions... I didn't count, it was a sizable group.  They had his attacks up to 40 seconds, according to the countdown on the button.  I honestly didn't watch to see if it was actually 40 seconds.  I suppose it might go UP to that, then return to normal after a few seconds when the debuff wears off?  Maybe?

 

Not sure.  Still, I don't recall having anything like this much trouble in the past.

 

4 hours ago, Uun said:

The story changes every time you tell it. First it was one enemy hitting you once. Now it's a group. Even so, if they conned grey, they wouldn't be able to hit you, let alone debuff you. 

It didn't change, this is the post from a bit higher on the page.

 

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

A level 39 character fighting enemies which cap at level 20 would experience 0.01% of the effects of the enemy debuffs.  Consequently, it would require several hundred NPCs attacking simultaneously to reduce a level 39 character's recharge times on the order of magnitude described.

 

So this player is saying that he somehow found a way to bypass the aggro mechanics and herd every Outcast in the entire zone, multiply them by about 10 in order to assemble a sufficient number of the described foes to cause the claimed effect, and negate the purple patch which reduced their hit chance to 5%.

 

I say ban him for using exploits.

Ya, as I said, it was a while ago, perhaps I'm misremembering it.  I have a lot of characters, perhaps it wasn't the one I thought it was.

 

I also tried something tonight to see what was going on.

I was doing a radio mission with one of my newer characters, a Scrapper with Street Justice and Willpower.  I was doing a radio mission, and took a hit from a Council Marksman with a cryo round, or whatever it's called.  It's the beam attack that hits you for a slow.  I right clicked the little debuff icon and checked the information.  It said it was a 16% slow with a 10 second duration.  My Spinning Kick power cooldown counter went up to 44 seconds, but then dropped back down to normal a few moments later (combined with the time it took to check the info, it was probably that 10 seconds).  I'm not sure offhand what the normal cooldown on Spinning Kick is, but I know the counter jumped up to 44.  The point is, it didn't stay there, because the debuff wore off, and the power recharged normally after that.

[ZemX]

13 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I have a Dark Melee/Willpower Brute who, being around L17 at the time, tried to take on 3 Cogs on a rooftop.  All three shot at him, and his endurance dropped to perhaps 10%. 

 

*sigh*.  No, they didn't.  The ranged power Cogs have is called "Charged Bolts" and it drains all of 1 endurance.  Each shot.  Not 100%.  One... endurance point.  Uno. 

 

Even if they were max level 20 and +3 to you that would only go up to 1.33 endurance each.  So four endurance total from a volley of 3 level 20 Cogs.  Unless you went INTO that fight with 14% of your max endurance left, there is no way you are sitting at 10% after they shot you.

 

If they could drain endurance anywhere close to as good as you claim, Synapse's TF would be a bloodbath.  That said, Malta Sappers are the minions who can do this.  Their Sapper Overload power drains 20 end/s for four seconds.  But it's kind of also the ONLY thing they can do and everyone knows it.  They don't live long if the heroes know what they are doing.

[Maelwys]

 

[Uun]

10 hours ago, Ultimo said:

It didn't change, this is the post from a bit higher on the page.

And this is your first post on page one of the thread:

 

Quote

An enemy with ice powers can hit me once, and ALL my powers suddenly take 40+ seconds to recharge.  

 

[Luminara]

 

Spinning Strike has a base 16 second recharge time.

 

Cryonic Rounds, the attack in question, has a 15% Slow.

 

16 * 1.15 = 18.4

 

In order for a power with a base 16 second recharge time to be require 44 seconds to recharge, the character would have to be hit with ~275% -Recharge.  This would require more than a dozen +4 Council Marksmen hitting.

 

(15 * 1.44 (purple patch)) * 13 = 280.8

 

[Ultimo]

6 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

*sigh*.  No, they didn't.  The ranged power Cogs have is called "Charged Bolts" and it drains all of 1 endurance.  Each shot.  Not 100%.  One... endurance point.  Uno. 

 

Even if they were max level 20 and +3 to you that would only go up to 1.33 endurance each.  So four endurance total from a volley of 3 level 20 Cogs.  Unless you went INTO that fight with 14% of your max endurance left, there is no way you are sitting at 10% after they shot you.

 

If they could drain endurance anywhere close to as good as you claim, Synapse's TF would be a bloodbath.  That said, Malta Sappers are the minions who can do this.  Their Sapper Overload power drains 20 end/s for four seconds.  But it's kind of also the ONLY thing they can do and everyone knows it.  They don't live long if the heroes know what they are doing.

Look, I'm not disputing what you're saying.  I can only tell you what happened.  Three cogs took their shots, and my endurance all but bottomed out.  It's what happened.  If there's some other explanation, I'm happy to hear it, but that's what happened.

 

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

Spinning Strike has a base 16 second recharge time.

 

Cryonic Rounds, the attack in question, has a 15% Slow.

 

16 * 1.15 = 18.4

 

In order for a power with a base 16 second recharge time to be require 44 seconds to recharge, the character would have to be hit with ~275% -Recharge.  This would require more than a dozen +4 Council Marksmen hitting.

 

(15 * 1.44 (purple patch)) * 13 = 280.8

 

As with the other guy, I'm not disputing your numbers, I'm only telling you what happened.  The number on my Spinning Strike power said 44.  I assume that's the cooldown time.

 

Of course, it didn't TAKE that long because the effect wore off before that, but the number said 44.

[Ultimo]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

And this is your first post on page one of the thread:

 

 

Ah, I see what you're referring to.  Ya, that was a different encounter.  That was a higher level boss, and I was playing a much lower level character, so he had no resistances or anything.

 

In any case, we're drifting off topic here.  The thread was asking if something was changed, and that question has been answered.  Apparently, nothing has been, it's just a matter of perception.

Edited Friday at 09:14 PM by Ultimo

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Three cogs took their shots, and my endurance all but bottomed out.  It's what happened.  If there's some other explanation, I'm happy to hear it, but that's what happened.

 

Unless you want to believe the game has malfunctioned in a way nobody else has experienced, the only reasonable explanation is that what you're saying didn't happen or that the circumstances of what happened are different than you remember.  Three cogs cannot zero your endurance.  They probably can't even overcome your natural recovery rate meaning you could stand there forever and not be drained.  

 

Like I said, people face hundreds of these things, including higher level LTs and Bosses during the Synapse TF which was just recently the weekly strike target.  This would be noticed if it were happening.  It's not happening.  This was essentially your opening question: Are debuffs worse now than they used to be?  Answer: No.  They are not.

 

Edit: To clarify, endurance drain IS a thing people experience running the Synapse TF but only because they are facing nonstop hordes of these things as they have to clear out map after map of all Clockwork enemies.   If merely 3 of the minions could zero someone's endurance, the TF would be practically unplayable, if not literally so.

Edited Friday at 11:40 PM by ZemX

[Nemu]

2 hours ago, Ultimo said:

that question has been answered

I'm with you. People find the dumbest shit to nitpick and continue to double click into said stupid shit even further. This thread could have ended 1 page ago with ZemX's first post.

 

Question's been answered. Slows exist, there are cheap and expensive ways to combat it. End drain exists, there are ways to address that too. Time to stop piling on the guy and do something more productive.

[Glacier Peak]

8 minutes ago, Nemu said:

I'm with you. People find the dumbest shit to nitpick and continue to double click into said stupid shit even further. This thread could have ended 1 page ago with ZemX's first post.

 

Question's been answered. Slows exist, there are cheap and expensive ways to combat it. End drain exists, there are ways to address that too. Time to stop piling on the guy and do something more productive.

Until the next thread they start saying the same thing...