Can we fix Mercy Island?

[Vic Raiden]

Sorry for raising the dead, but:

 

I don't think creating an echo is really necessary given the appearance of Mercy Island as a whole has remained pretty much unchanged save for changing the placement of the respawn points and the starter contacts and that weird period where the dome atop the Arachnos HQ was replaced with a Lord Recluse statue. There's not even any Freedom Corps banners on the Longbow-held Fort Darwin.

 

Now compare that to Atlas Park, which had seen much greater changes like entire buildings being swapped out for shinier and less blocky ones or the sheer fact there's now an Architect Entertainment building a Freedom Corps base in place of a cluster of low-rise tenements.

 

And while I can somewhat excuse the presence of two Arachnos forts behind the Overbrook dam - let's face it, the zone was left isolated from the rest of the city long enough for building a fortress to be possible, plus the area behind the dam seems to kind of be on the outskirts of Paragon City - I have a much bigger problem with how Arachnos now somehow has a well-guarded foothold in western Atlas Park (i.e. the very center of the city) complete with a network of what totally isn't Rikti pylons. Which sure, goes away if you complete the post-i21 starter questline, but still raises many questions of HOW they were even able to set up such a big obvious outpost in such a risky area and still only be an entry-level threat? For Statesman's sake, the final boss of that questline is an Arbiter, normally an endgame-level boss unit, here nerfed into basically a recolored generic early-level Wolf Spider Huntsman! How is that even supposed to make Arachnos look like a serious threat!?

 

Not helping matters is that the writing isn't entirely consistent on whether Arachnos should be treated as a terrorist organization, a crime syndicate or a whole legitimate foreign nation. The very existence of redside content frames it as the latter, which just raises the question of how they're able to get away with doing ANYTHING AT ALL on American soil without provoking a war.

 

I just don't understand it at all, and I'd like to thank @Chris24601 for coming up with what I think is a pretty sensible idea of fixing it.

Edited February 1 by Vic Raiden

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

I have a much bigger problem with how Arachnos now somehow has a well-guarded foothold in western Atlas Park (i.e. the very center of the city) complete with a network of what totally isn't Rikti pylons.

It isn't well guarded. Just temporally overrun. That's why you see those large crates during the arc. And the pylons can be quickly set up. Further, if you look at how the pylons are arranged and how they don't fight back yet, it looks like they are just starting to be deployed. And they very well may be Rikti pylons. Arachnos has the tendency to steal anything they can to use against their enemies. And are even working with the Restructurist Rikti.

 

6 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

Which sure, goes away if you complete the post-i21 starter questline, but still raises many questions of HOW they were even able to set up such a big obvious outpost in such a risky area and still only be an entry-level threat?

The story arc addresses how they were able to get there and set up so quickly. As for them being only an entry-level threat? Why wouldn't Arachnos use their cannon fodder for such a risky venture in the heart of Paragon City rather than their more valuable troops? If the cannon fodder are successful, then more valuable troops can be deployed to secure the location.

 

6 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

For Statesman's sake, the final boss of that questline is an Arbiter, normally an endgame-level boss unit, here nerfed into basically a recolored generic early-level Wolf Spider Huntsman!

You don't play much red side, do you? Players encounter Arbiters even as enemies well before the end game. And when we fight those Arbiters, they are just re-colored Wolf Spider Huntsmen. Even when we fight Arbiters in the late game, they are still just more powerful re-colored Wolf Spider Huntsmen. Only Arbiter Sands has shown any difference in capabilities so far.

[gameboy1234]

I'm going to +1 this, I think that Mercy detracts a lot from starting a red side character.  I was on about two months ago and answered questions from a player who seemed experienced but couldn't even find the starting contacts in Mercy.  That's a problem, if you're not in the know  then discoverability is very poor.

 

Mercy has very poor sight lines.  From Atlas Park, without leaving the safe zone around Ms. Liberty, you can see Vanguard, City Hall, Wentworths, the tram, Fort Trident, and with only a little more effort the Tailor and the Hospital are visible too.  It's far easier to navigate around and find things in AP than it is in Mercy.

 

As a quick fix, I'd like to see some facilities moved closer to the starting spot.  Vanguard in particular since a lot of folks like to jump on Mothership Raids, but moving some others if there's time.  The Hospital in Mercy is in a good spot, leave it.  I think trying to fix the geometry in Mercy to improve sight lines would take too much effort, so this is a second tier idea.

 

The spawn in Mercy is way too thick (just the green starting area, not the whole zone).  It needs to be trimmed down, I'd say by a lot.  Longbow and Legacy Chain especially, and I'd like to see some of the RIPper spawn reduced too.  Kalinda, Burke, and Kuzim should all be added as starting contacts so players can just look there, and the starting Aribter (Richards) should make reference to them the first time you talk to him (if that's too hard, just have him reference those contacts whenever a player talks to him and doesn't need to level up).

 

 

Edited February 1 by gameboy1234

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Broke this out of the two year old "I miss the old Mercy Island" thread.

 

I felt it was better to move and create a new topic than just lock the discussion.

 

Carry on and BETEO!

[gameboy1234]

2 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

I think trying to fix the geometry in Mercy to improve sight lines would take too much effort, so this is a second tier idea.

 

Another idea: trying to fix the "tram" in Mercy would require a lot of effort.  If a black helicopter were added next to Dollface in Mercy, just behind Desslock, it would make her dialog make more sense (she's the only one I think not actually at a day job location) and also give players more straight forward access to travel.

[Vic Raiden]

Aye. I can't stop finding it weird how the arachnocopter on top of Fort Darwin can be used to quickly zip back to Mercy's gatehouse, while the exit 'copter can't be used to go back and is exclusively a mission door.

[Vic Raiden]

2 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

Mercy has very poor sight lines.  From Atlas Park, without leaving the safe zone around Ms. Liberty, you can see Vanguard, City Hall, Wentworths, the tram, Fort Trident, and with only a little more effort the Tailor and the Hospital are visible too.  It's far easier to navigate around and find things in AP than it is in Mercy.

 

As a quick fix, I'd like to see some facilities moved closer to the starting spot.  Vanguard in particular since a lot of folks like to jump on Mothership Raids, but moving some others if there's time.  The Hospital in Mercy is in a good spot, leave it.  I think trying to fix the geometry in Mercy to improve sight lines would take too much effort, so this is a second tier idea.

 

To my recollection, Mercy doesn't even have a Vanguard outpost in it. The first one redside players can find is all the way ahead in Cap au Diable. As for other facilities: yeah, it's stupid how the usable/day-job-able arachnocopter landing pad is so far away from the starting area, all the way over on Fort Cerberus' balcony, while the tailor and Vault Reserve buildings are so far away from the central square and aren't even all that easy to recognize as what they're supposed to be.

 

Atlas Park will probably forever remain an example of how to do a starting hub zone correctly.

[Chris24601]

Mercy Island’s sight lines WERE fine… when you started from Fort Darwin and not within the city.

 

Trainers, Vendors, Hospital, initial contacts, the main road out into the blight where the original starting missions were. It also presented a very solid mission concept… you’ve been dumped in the worst violence-ridden slum of the isles to see if you can even survive long enough to make it to the nicer elevated and walled town.

 

Its literally the embodiment of Lord Recluse’s Darwinian philosophy… particularly when you realize Project Destiny is just a giant scam in the late game. He’s literally dumping villains at random to see who is fit enough to survive and as long as at least one makes it through the weeding out process, it’s a win.

 

Being a Destined One doesn’t mean you’re special… it means you’re a dupe who’s jumped through all Recluse’s hoops until you finally turn the tables in the last act. The shift in starting Mercy to where you’re now someone worthy of respect and the Arachnos troops conn as allies to you completely undercuts the longer term story in my opinion.

 

Frankly, I think the phasing should be inverted from where it is now. You start in the gutters of Mercy outside Fort Darwin and clear it of the Longbow incursion and the final arc isn’t to clear out Fort Darwin, it’s to clear Longbow from the city above so Arachnos can reassert control.

[Chris24601]

I guess to add to my thoughts above; I get the reluctance to want to change too much of what the LiveDevs left us with…

 

But at the same time in many ways what the LiveDevs left was in many ways half-finished due to the shutdown and in other ways less geared towards a coherent experience as it was towards funneling players into the premium endgame grind.

 

One thing that really became obvious with many of the arcs released after the move to F2P was how many of them were effectively commercials for various premium power sets (Ex. Graham Easton’s arc climaxes in fighting four of the different premium power sets on tougher than average Tsoo mobs… twice during the Eagle Eye arc you get pallet swapped to someone with the Street Justice premium set).

 

While I won’t call for it to be removed it’s also not something I’d take as the norm Homecoming should be shooting for in content, nor something it should feel can never be changed if a better design idea comes along.

[tidge]

I *miss* the original Mercy Island but in my case it is entirely sentimental. I think it has one advantage over Atlas Park in that red-side players only rarely get sent back to Mercy Island, and for a couple of those instances it makes lore-sense.

 

The main thing I'd "fix" with it is that I'd increase the number and frequency of Snake spawns. The first Hunt Snakes mission can be a PITA at low levels, even if you know where they are likely to spawn.

[Wavicle]

On 2/1/2025 at 3:05 AM, Vic Raiden said:

the writing isn't entirely consistent on whether Arachnos should be treated as a terrorist organization, a crime syndicate or a whole legitimate foreign nation

 

So you're saying it's remarkably realistic writing?

[UltraAlt]

On 2/1/2025 at 6:05 AM, Vic Raiden said:

and that weird period where the dome atop the Arachnos HQ was replaced with a Lord Recluse statue.

 

What?

You have a problem with the ruler of "red side"/The Villain Isles showing his dominance over all his lackies?

Of course, he will have others build statues of himself.

You are lucky that they aren't kaiju that are in Mercy Island to cull the weak and pitiful!

 

On 2/1/2025 at 6:05 AM, Vic Raiden said:

How is that even supposed to make Arachnos look like a serious threat!?

 

I never took them to be a serious threat to anyone other than "red side" characters ... you know ... villains.

 

On 2/1/2025 at 6:05 AM, Vic Raiden said:

Not helping matters is that the writing isn't entirely consistent on whether Arachnos should be treated as a terrorist organization, a crime syndicate or a whole legitimate foreign nation.

 

I think the answer you are looking for is "yes" except for the "legitimate" part. I would it an "illegitimate foreign nation" with the other aspects included.

It is an island ruled by a terrorist organization in the manner of a crime syndicate.

 

On 2/1/2025 at 12:17 PM, gameboy1234 said:

Mercy has very poor sight lines.  From Atlas Park, without leaving the safe zone around Ms. Liberty, you can see Vanguard, City Hall, Wentworths, the tram, Fort Trident, and with only a little more effort the Tailor and the Hospital are visible too.  It's far easier to navigate around and find things in AP than it is in Mercy.

 

I think it as jumbled mess intentionally.

You do see structure in some areas that Arachnos has taken over, but the rest is still pretty much built up on top of what appears to have been islands primarily focused on fishing and timber harvesting. Higher levels of industrialization moved in and the economy apparently increased enough for criminal forces to come in and take advantage of the local workers.

 

Mercy is "the mean streets". It is the poor part of town that you need to work your way out of if you want to hit "the big time".

 

 

[DrIlluminatis]

I personally liked Old Mercy Isle better. Due to the fact that it was  more you progressing through the Isles trying to prove yourself. I like the idea of Opening up the Rogue Isles to everyone (With the possible exception of Grandville) Just pepper the Rogue Isles with a Hero contact maybe 3 ish per zone and if you want to tie them together, that the Hero is under cover and have been recruited by Longbow to go to the Isles to get information on Project Destiny, and Arachnos in General.

[Perma-Newbie]

1 hour ago, DrIlluminatis said:

I personally liked Old Mercy Isle better. Due to the fact that it was  more you progressing through the Isles trying to prove yourself. I like the idea of Opening up the Rogue Isles to everyone (With the possible exception of Grandville) Just pepper the Rogue Isles with a Hero contact maybe 3 ish per zone and if you want to tie them together, that the Hero is under cover and have been recruited by Longbow to go to the Isles to get information on Project Destiny, and Arachnos in General.

My secret desire is for all zones to be open to all sides.  Bring on the mayhem in Brickstown!

[gameboy1234]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I think it as jumbled mess intentionally.

 

I'd agree that it's intentional.  I think there is a design aesthetic there, and I also think it's supposed to be a warren of jumbled buildings and dark alleys.  But I don't think it's good game design.  It's hard to navigate, easy to lose your way, and each part of the zone often looks like every other part, making it hard to orient yourself.  At least in a game that's about action and the "bad guys" succeeding, that's not what you'd normally design.  (if this were say a horror game where the player is supposed to feel lost, confused, and without power, it would probably be about right.)

 

There's other issues like certain features, buildings and whatnot, that look like maybe they were intended as distinct buildings and markers are way too tall, never in view, and it's hard to notice them as zone landmarks.  There's a central building behind Kuzim that's got Arachnos banners all over it, but those banners are about 50' in the air, way too far up to notice when you've got the camera at a normal angle for playing.

[UltraAlt]

16 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

I think there is a design aesthetic there, and I also think it's supposed to be a warren of jumbled buildings and dark alleys.

 

16 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

(if this were say a horror game where the player is supposed to feel lost, confused, and without power, it would probably be about right.)

 

16 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

here's other issues like certain features, buildings and whatnot, that look like maybe they were intended as distinct buildings and markers are way too tall, never in view, and it's hard to notice them as zone landmarks.

 

The little that I play on villain side at the lower levels is about sneaking around and getting the drop on targets.

 

Also, I like running around on roof tops, so I'm not stuck with a camera angle that can't see tall buildings off in the distance.

 

 

 

 

[Rudra]

33 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

It's hard to navigate, easy to lose your way, and each part of the zone often looks like every other part, making it hard to orient yourself. 

While I do agree that the buildings are fairly monotonous, I have to disagree about each part of the zone looking like every other part of the zone. From the polluted water "treatment" area with its massive warehouse facility and the adjacent snake infestation area with its caved in pit just waiting to swallow players, to the fallen Arachnos fort the player has to take back if playing through Kuzmin's arc standing out like a sore thumb, to the grand courtyard where Longbow is holding Arachnos prisoners, to the docks, to the burned out husks near the main city, to the mighty walled city itself; each part of Mercy Island is visually different from the others. It is only really within the walls of the city that everything seems to run together, but that is where the map comes in handy. Each section of the island has its own distinctive feel and appearance, at least to me.

[tidge]

Here is a rando thought about various maps/zones that I often have, but really never has a place to fit...

 

One thing that irks me, in a minor by somewhat constant way, are the zones that are either/both:

• too big for their own good (and their content)
• offer distinct (and obvious) different features, but don't leverage (via arcs, contacts, whatever) them for missions

An example of a zone I think avoids both of those peeves is Faultline. Between the in-zone arcs, and a few of other arcs I feel like we players get exposed to pretty much all the stuff Faultline has to offer, and there are reasons to hit pretty much every corner of the zone. The only villain flavor that is not precisely accounted for are the Freaks, but I can overlook their presence in the zone.

 

An example of a zone that I feel is OK for the first but fails on the second is the Hollows. The entire mountain and the south half of the zone are pretty much ignored by content, with the exception of the one Circle of Thorns mission at the end of the zone's arc.

 

Blue-side, I feel like the original zones mostly lacked imagination, except for "more of the same, but bigger footprints".... I'm looking at you Talos Island and Independence Port.  Red-side doesn't strike me the same way, as the zones have distinctive features and a LOT of content to take advantage of them (Sharkhead is probably the best IMO, with Cap Au Diable close). The biggest lore regret I have is that there is very little reason to (open-world) visit the Fab in Grandville. It is a huge amount of real estate dedicated to existing as an instanced version in a TF.

[Jacke]

5 hours ago, tidge said:

Blue-side, I feel like the original zones mostly lacked imagination, except for "more of the same, but bigger footprints".... I'm looking at you Talos Island and Independence Port.

 

Talos Island shouldn't have had the islets to the north.  That should have been a Hazard Zone all its own (and did show up as that for Redside, "Monster Island").  Then the focus could have been on the main island and the shores to the West, South, and East.

 

Independence Port, bloody enormous.  I think most Toons go around it for the Badges and Plaques and otherwise is unvisitted unless a group is going after Lusca.  Even the Smuggler's Submarine is awkwardly placed.

 

 

[Vic Raiden]

Funnier still, oversized as IP is, it's still too small to properly fit in with the rest of Paragon City. Like, it's supposed to fit Terra Volta inside, but the isolated chunk that one's supposed to be in is only a quarter size of what it logically should be.

[tidge]

5 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

Funnier still, oversized as IP is, it's still too small to properly fit in with the rest of Paragon City. Like, it's supposed to fit Terra Volta inside, but the isolated chunk that one's supposed to be in is only a quarter size of what it logically should be.

 

Oddly enough, that zone-in-a-zone bothers me not-at-all.  I get more mental dissonance that it is nominally protected by two sets of War Walls yet it is a complete disaster area. As I wrote somewhere (probably in this thread, among other places) Terra Volta takes my prize for the least useful and most annoying (non-Shadow Shard) zone.

 

I grok the original thinking behind hazard zones, at least as far as enemy spawn sizes/types and navigation "puzzles", but once Faultline was re-worked and Dark Astoria was given a series of arcs, it was Terra Volta that became the undisputed "but why?" zone. With the reactor playing a central role in multiple TFs, it makes no sense to me why the zone is constructed the way it is, or why it is nominally "abandoned".

 

I can imagine any of several different new arcs to leverage Terra Volta, even with its annoying geometry for non-fliers. For example:

 

Sky Raiders. They are physically present in large numbers... so maybe they are manufacturing their materials there. I can imagine that their FFG tech is an adapted/miniaturized version of War Wall tech... which presumably Terra Volta always had, pre-Rikti Invasion (since no Rikti are present).

 

The Family. Blue side, the Family lore (from Arcs) is rather blah. They are essentially the right level range for Terra Volta, and are all over the outside of TV in IP. I feel like the Family could have established some smuggling routes in-and-out of TV. It would be easy to tie the Family to TV, IP and Striga.

 

Devouring Earth. The game doesn't lack for DE content, but the power station could be a point of interest for the DE. They might like the warm water from the cooling towers, they might hate and waste materials. Since they hand out only the inner and outer edges of TV, it seems odd that there is effectively no story tying the two together.

[laudwic]

On 2/3/2025 at 9:22 PM, Rudra said:

While I do agree that the buildings are fairly monotonous, I have to disagree about each part of the zone looking like every other part of the zone. From the polluted water "treatment" area with its massive warehouse facility and the adjacent snake infestation area with its caved in pit just waiting to swallow players, to the fallen Arachnos fort the player has to take back if playing through Kuzmin's arc standing out like a sore thumb, to the grand courtyard where Longbow is holding Arachnos prisoners, to the docks, to the burned out husks near the main city, to the mighty walled city itself; each part of Mercy Island is visually different from the others. It is only really within the walls of the city that everything seems to run together, but that is where the map comes in handy. Each section of the island has its own distinctive feel and appearance, at least to me.

 

Honestly, while I originally used to have trouble with Mercy with the occasional Red Side Character, now they drop a temporary flight power on you after you complete the tutorial.  All of the problems getting around Mercy, or the other zones, is taken care of with just having a map and being able to use a jet pack for a short period to take care of any problems.  Personally, I think Red Side has an amazing amount going for it, I just can't imagine the Devs spending much time on it due to the relatively low player base and lack of resources.  

[Jacke]

15 hours ago, Vic Raiden said:

Funnier still, oversized as IP is, it's still too small to properly fit in with the rest of Paragon City. Like, it's supposed to fit Terra Volta inside, but the isolated chunk that one's supposed to be in is only a quarter size of what it logically should be.

 

So, what you're saying is....

 

"It's bigger on the inside than the outside."  😺

[Starhammer]

I agree with many points above (and before). I'd love to see travel between Red/Blue simply opened to everyone, and as time goes on, add the occasional blue contact to red zones and vice/versa. As it is, I just make every character a Vigilante or Rogue so I can access either when I want to join a team or TF/SF, but it would be nice to have that be unnecessary so I could pick faction based more on character development than Interfaction Multipass. Moving the Black Helicopter over by Dollface would be much more useful. As is, if we have to go to that part of the zone, we might as well just take the Ferry/TUNNEL. Then the current Black Helicopter could be used as a transit to RWZ... a bit out of the way, but not a different zone at least.

I'd like to see more semi-interactive *stuff* around the zone too. Ruined labs, basement hideouts, a vendor or three... just stuff to see and do besides most of the zone being an open hunting ground (which is of course a problem for most of the zones in the game, but if we're talking about Mercy here...). I want more things to explore, and more reason to do so. I love places like the Arachnos tunnel in Faultline, the Council bunker in RWZ, more stuff like that. Of course, such places should have exploration badges. Now that we no longer require a full zone of exploration badges to unlock Long Range Transport, perhaps we could set aside the standardization that each zone have exactly 8 badges.

[gameboy1234]

On 2/5/2025 at 8:02 AM, laudwic said:

 

I just can't imagine the Devs spending much time on it due to the relatively low player base and lack of resources. 

 

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy though.  Not spending time fixing things is the reason for the low population.

 

 

On 2/5/2025 at 8:16 PM, Starhammer said:

I'd like to see more semi-interactive *stuff* around the zone too. Ruined labs, basement hideouts, a vendor or three... just stuff to see and do besides most of the zone being an open hunting ground

 

This especially.  The whole game needs it, but if the Devs could start with red side, that would give a boost to red side as players check out new stuff and the devs could get some experience implementing that sort of content.

 

 

I came here to add: Super Group Registrar.  Easily accessible from City Hall blue side, much more inconvenient red side going to port oaks then hiking to the Marcone building. (Also inconvenient, this building doesn't even have a name.  It's just "the Arachnos building in central Port Oakes" on the wiki.) A registrar or building could be added to Mercy.