Best "front-line" MM powerset choices?

[biostem]

If I wanted to create a MM that gets up close and personal, fighting in melee along with their minions, what combination would you suggest?  I was thinking Necro/FF or maybe Necro/Elec could work well, but Demons has some close-range attacks already.  I'm pretty much open to any combination, so I'd love to hear the input from you more experienced MM players.  Cheers!

[EnjoyTheJourney]

I've played enough melee range necro feel comfortable saying it's a very good primary for fighting in melee range. The controls the lich has, the various sources of -to hit debuffs, knockdowns from minions, life drain, the sheer number of minions that can be out most of the time, and single target attacks that summon minions which have taunt all contribute to making a necro primary MM quite survivable while fighting in melee. It would be a solid choice as a primary for your intended playstyle. 

 

I don't have enough experience with playing multiple primaries in melee range to do well thought through comparisons between primaries.

 

A bunch of secondaries could work well with a melee playstyle for an MM. Storm, trick arrow, traps, and marine immediately come to mind, in addition to FF and EA.  

I played a necro / storm for a fair while a few years ago. Enemies went through a lot on their way to being defeated, so much so that I (for real) sometimes ended up feeling a bit sorry for them.  

[Maelwys]

100% Necro for Melee feeling. The Grave Knight sword attacks carry a lot of weight, and you can take the START vendor attacks (Sands of Mu, Ghost slayer Axe) and a few Patron wallops to pitch in.

For secondary, toebombing with a /Traps or just dashing in with a procbombed Whitecap in a /Marine will have a bit of synergy. You could also potentially swing /FF with a KB>KD IO in Repulsion Field.

 

Demons have Melee attacks and +Res buffs, but they're a bit more prone to blasting and the elemental effects can be offputting. Beasts is another option, but they're consistently last place in terms of performance.

[evetsleep]

 

I had to take a few of mine off the shelf  and take them for a spin or two to remind myself, but for some in-your-face MM combinations which have the MM themselves running amok I would recommend necro\ninja\beasts + ff\time\marine.  I have to say Marine feels a lot more flexible (and active) while running\jumping around in close range, but Time is a little safer with the debuffs, power boosted defense, and heals.  Force field is .... well force field and feels far less active play.  I have all the previously listed combinations and they're all super tanky and I feel pretty safe floating around close range.  Marine feels the most active.  I haven't played my necro/electric in a long time, but it was solid back then, but I prefer to layer on defense with necromancy for a more tankier feel.  Honorable mention of necro/ice here since once of the weaker parts of the zombies is fire resistance and ice helps with that.

 

I know that beasts is not seen as very strong compared to others after the recent MM pass, but they're pretty solid still and do respectable DPS.  After running Wet Fur (my beasts/marine MM) I was reminded at how nuts they can be at just straight up tearing things apart.  I went through a few door missions and rarely had to heal them at all thanks to Barrier Reef and the damage mitigation provided by Tide Pool.

 

Most of my marine melee oriented MM's play the same as I dip into the teleportation pool for fold space.  Getting everyone in the tide pool flopping around why the pets tear into them consistently works pretty good.  Also marine has tools to deal with harder targets (brine).  Overall that would be my recommendation for active melee oriented MM's.

[SeraphimKensai]

I have 4 lvl 50 necros: 2x /dark, 1x /elec, and 1x /marine.

 

Each secondary can be well built. The dark I liked so much I made two and considered a third as well for a true zombie horde (tribox shenanigans). The elec on is really tanky but does less damage then the dark or marine, due to it having less -res opportunities. Marine is really fun in your face, and with brine you can absolutely melt strong targets.

[Uun]

I've got a Beast/Traps that lives in melee. FFG follows you, so you want to be in the middle of the scrum to keep your henchmen protected. Poison Trap provides a ton of mitigation (and damage if you slot %dmg procs) and provides a window to lay Trip Mines. The revamped Detonator does A LOT of damage.

[TheSpiritFox]

Bots/traps, Thugs/Time, Demons or Necro or Mercs /elec. Dark and Time can take anything into melee but certain things go better with them than others. Matching defenses matters if you wanna be front line. 

My bots/traps and esp my mercs/elec laugh in the face of alot of GMs. 

 

[Xandyr]

I played a Necro/Pain and stayed in melee. The extra Resistance, the +Regen from Suppress Pain (with the Panacea proc slotted in it!), the -to hit, and the heals worked wonders.

[Neiska]

I have a necro/nature that’s up close and personal, and does quite well.

[biostem]

How important do you folks find the T1 zombies to be for necro?  I love the grave knights & lich, but have always found the zombies to be "meh"?  I guess they'd serve as more fodder and distractions...

[Xandyr]

I slot either the Overwhelming Force proc or Cupid's Crush proc in my T1s. It helps. Plus, Necro's T1s add more -to hit!

[evetsleep]

24 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

I slot either the Overwhelming Force proc or Cupid's Crush proc in my T1s. It helps. Plus, Necro's T1s add more -to hit!

This, to me, is the biggest value they bring.  Since they get puke (a cone) with the first upgrade, that pairs really nicely with the OF KD proc.  Everyone slipping on vomit while the grave knight are picking targets off.  Other than that they're a good distraction for baddies to eat up incoming damage (especially if you're in bodyguard mode).

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Soul extraction summons more when your MM has more pets out. If you skip taking and summoning the zombies, then your MM loses half of their extracted souls. 

 

For necro MMs, in particular, there's a strong incentive to keep all pets out and to use all single target attacks. 

[Borias]

Beast Mastery / Marine Affinity would be my vote for snappy melee gameplay. It felt safe and the pet AI really matched the flow. It’s my only mastermind I’ve felt comfortable with leaving pets on aggressive most of the time. The beasts movement speed is really a boon to the synergy. Whitecap in after tide pool and let the pets do their thing unless there is a priority target. Take a few steps back to position for your cone attack and watch the pets shred. 
 

Marine’s attack buffs and your attacks that stack more attack buffs on your pets become a force to be reckoned with. 

[tjknight]

Has anyone ever tried the fighting pool on a build like this?

[tidge]

13 hours ago, tjknight said:

Has anyone ever tried the fighting pool on a build like this?

 

IMO the real advantages/purposes of MM attacks are:

• to draw aggro while Bodyguard mode is in use
• to apply soft controls (i.e Knockdown) and/or debuffs (preferably -Res or %-Res)

MMs attacks have a hefty endurance cost, so even with %damage slotted in them I haven't found them to be as useful for keeping henchmen alive and maximizing henchmen damage output as the two points above. Cross Punch would be the real gem from Fighting, but I think Wall of Force would end up being a better path if a "cone attack" was desired.

[Auroxis]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

IMO the real advantages/purposes of MM attacks are:

• to draw aggro while Bodyguard mode is in use
• to apply soft controls (i.e Knockdown) and/or debuffs (preferably -Res or %-Res)

MMs attacks have a hefty endurance cost, so even with %damage slotted in them I haven't found them to be as useful for keeping henchmen alive and maximizing henchmen damage output as the two points above. Cross Punch would be the real gem from Fighting, but I think Wall of Force would end up being a better path if a "cone attack" was desired.

The main advantage is in having your henchmen spend their time on hard targets (LT's and bosses) instead of soft targets (minions). It only takes a few well procced AoE attacks to take down minions in a +4x8 group, which lets your henchmen spread their damage optimally and leads to an overall faster clear speed. In addition to the AoE advantages, you can slot -res procs in your attacks to have your henchmen deal more damage.

 

A good example is a Robots/FF MM. You can have your pets go in and let them figure it out, sure. Or you could instead go Robots/FF/Mu with TP, and Fold Space the pack to get them tightened up, follow it up with a procced Force Bomb, procced Thunder Strike, and Electrifying Fences. You then end up with a pack almost depleted of minions, immobilized, and debuffed by two -res procs. These are not just theories, but actual game-tested scenarios I benchmarked.

 

For a simpler setup, I use Force Mastery on my Bots/Cold to have a Sleet + Procced Explosive Blast + Procced Energy Torrent opener.

[tidge]

Robotic Henchmen are probably the worst example to pick if the argument is intended to be...

 

54 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

The main advantage is in having your henchmen spend their time on hard targets (LT's and bosses) instead of soft targets (minions).

 

 

[Auroxis]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

Robotic Henchmen are probably the worst example to pick if the argument is intended to be...

 

 

 

It's a great example because even if your pets have good AoE you still benefit greatly from thinning the herd for them.

[tidge]

If the henchmen have good AoE, then they aren't "focusing fire" on just "LTs & Bosses", so my point about debuffing in patches (like with Sleet for /cold, or using AoE attacks with %-res or blah blah fishcakes) is improving everyone's output and not just trying to get some rando Nx70 HP %damage (while also sacrificing enhancement set bonuses, and not slotting for Accuracy, Endurance). Ultimately clear times come down to "make as few attacks as possible", so as long as the minions aren't somehow outlasting the bosses, it doesn't really matter if the MM is trying to %damage them or not.... but more soft control helps to keep everyone fighting, and more %-Resistance speeds up the fight.

 

I know that for some folks, anytime they see a power can take a %damage piece their eyes light up... but not every power in every AT improves clear times this way.

 

I'm sure that for the content you are playing, your approach looks optimal to you. I tried it, and I found it to be suboptimal for the content I play with my solo MM, which is mostly Alignment (instanced) missions and GM hunts. For the latter, I clean enough GMs in a relatively short time frame that on-balance I don't think more rando 70HP %damage would be worth giving up set bonuses for (such as from the Annihilation set).

 

 

EDIT: As for the topic under consideration, I wouldn't consider Robotics to be "front line" primarily because they are 99% ranged attackers. I mean... it is possible to move them to the "front line" but it is my experience that they'll do just fine wherever they are (after moving, knockback) as long as they are in Supremacy range.

Edited Wednesday at 02:06 PM by tidge
corrected %-Resistance

[Auroxis]

46 minutes ago, tidge said:

If the henchmen have good AoE, then they aren't "focusing fire" on just "LTs & Bosses", so my point about debuffing in patches (like with Sleet for /cold, or using AoE attacks with %-res or blah blah fishcakes) is improving everyone's output and not just trying to get some rando Nx70 HP %damage (while also sacrificing enhancement set bonuses, and not slotting for Accuracy, Endurance). Ultimately clear times come down to "make as few attacks as possible", so as long as the minions aren't somehow outlasting the bosses, it doesn't really matter if the MM is trying to %damage them or not.... but more soft control helps to keep everyone fighting, and more %-Resistance speeds up the fight.

 

I know that for some folks, anytime they see a power can take a %damage piece their eyes light up... but not every power in every AT improves clear times this way.

 

I'm sure that for the content you are playing, your approach looks optimal to you. I tried it, and I found it to be suboptimal for the content I play with my solo MM, which is mostly Alignment (instanced) missions and GM hunts. For the latter, I clean enough GMs in a relatively short time frame that on-balance I don't think more rando 70HP %damage would be worth giving up set bonuses for (such as from the Annihilation set).

 

A couple procced AoE's won't be sacrificing much of anything and will greatly boost your clearspeed. On the Bots/FF I've mentioned, I'm fully softcapped and hit 95% accuracy against +3's. And as for the henchmen attacks themselves, even their best AoE attacks will not deal nearly as much damage as a good proc bomb like the ones I mentioned.

 

I guess that if you're just regularly fighting a few targets at once you won't notice a massive difference. But in +4x8 content it's a big deal, and the only reason I'm pressing on this instead of going with the "do your thing" approach, is because telling other MM players proc bombs are suboptimal is just straight-up false.

Mastermind (Robotics - Force Field) v3.mbd

Edited Wednesday at 02:34 PM by Auroxis
Added build for reference

[UltraAlt]

On 3/10/2025 at 10:55 PM, biostem said:

If I wanted to create a MM that gets up close and personal, fighting in melee along with their minions, what combination would you suggest?

 

If you play in defensive mode, I would definitely go with ?/Electric. Great heals and buffs (that have a chance to affect your character  as well) and a positional forcefield that you can drop on the spot you are fighting from. (I have had the most success with ?/electric)

 

I generally target through my most powerful henchman, run up into the middle of the enemy group, drop the forcefield and keep buffing and healing henchmen with a stray attack here or there.

 

What to pick for the primary?

I'm a character conception player, so I'm limited to what I think makes sense. I'm not trying to force a reasoning.

With the whole Dr Frankenstein thing, I have no problem going with /electric for Necromancy.

Robotics? /electric make sense to me as well. 

Demons? /electric makes sense for a henchman-less mastermind, but then I'm generally running on teams and using the team as my "henchmen". The character jumps in to the location as the tank and uses them as the "most powerful henchman" in the tactic.

The other henchmen/animals don't really seem conception-friendly as far as /electric is concerned.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Auroxis said:

I guess that if you're just regularly fighting a few targets at once you won't notice a massive difference. But in +4x8 content it's a big deal, and the only reason I'm pressing on this instead of going with the "do your thing" approach, is because telling other MM players proc bombs are suboptimal is just straight-up false

 

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I'm sure that for the content you are playing, your approach looks optimal to you. I tried it, and I found it to be suboptimal for the content I play with my solo MM

 

I'm not going to parse the attached build; I'm sure you are completely satisfied with it. I personally wouldn't be bothering with %damage in single-target attacks on a MM (including Weaken Resolve) and I'm not entirely sure the Kismet +ToHit is doing all that much (modulo the general lack of accuracy slotting in attacks).

 

We are not going to see eye-to-eye on this, as I see other choices in that build that I wouldn't make.

 

[Octogoat]

Necro marine with marine colored to look like blood.

[Maelwys]

6 hours ago, Auroxis said:

A couple procced AoE's won't be sacrificing much of anything and will greatly boost your clearspeed. On the Bots/FF I've mentioned, I'm fully softcapped and hit 95% accuracy against +3's. And as for the henchmen attacks themselves, even their best AoE attacks will not deal nearly as much damage as a good proc bomb like the ones I mentioned.

FWIW; my experience of current "Bots" gameplay is quite similar here - in that thinning the herd via other powers does make a notable difference because post-rework (e.g. after the Burn Patches were gutted) your henchmen can only focus the bulk of their AoE damage output on a very limited number of targets.

The Assault Bot's Incendiary Swarm Missiles still has a respectable target cap of 10 on the original hit; but a mere 3 on its Burn patches... and their Flamethower only has a 30 degree arc. Likewise the Battle Drones' Full Auto Laser has an arc of just 15 degrees. Therefore if you're in a target rich environment (farming at +Nx8) and/or you're not making your pets hang back a bit (Goto/Group Fly helps line up those Cones) then your henchmen will very likely be only hitting a small portion of the surrounding critters with the bulk of their AoEs.
And whilst the nature of the Burn patches means that the damage ticks will flick over to a new target as soon as the old targets die off; the MM opening up each encounter with a big radius Procbombed AoE or two (like Photon Grenade, Epic Pool Fireball, etc) makes things go considerably faster. Thinning the herd whilst inflicting AoE -res.

However IMO the single-target Robotics personal attacks are quite forgettable and if it wasn't for the -Regen debuff I'd skip them all day every day. Even procbombed their endurance-to-damage ratio typically isn't worth it... but MAYBE for some secondaries Pulse Rifle Burst might have some benefit as a FF +rech mule.