Plant secondary

[Ukase]

So, maybe 5 years ago or so, I made a Fire/plant blaster. For whatever reason, I sat this guy in day job after day job. Still doesn't have them all, because it's so far back in my pages of blasters. I have a ton of his IOs and ATOs all in the trays, waiting for me to play the character and level it. 

Here is a post where someone took a poll of what the more popular primary and secondary were for a blaster. I found it interesting that plant was at 0%. That's not to say nobody ever plays them. I'm sure someone does. But they're not popular. As the blaster I made is level 11, I'm curious as to why they didn't get one vote. Granted, the math doesn't support them - although I haven't done the math on Plant, and have never played a plant secondary blaster yet, other than the aforementioned one. 

What are the pitfalls? Should I just trash this character, or keep giving it day jobs until the secondary gets some fine-tuning in the future? Any prevailing wisdom besides just recommending fire, ice, devices or time secondary? 

[Winter]

First, some perspective: 173 members of the forums have voted on that poll.  That is a small percentage of forum users, and a much smaller percentage of overall players (most of whom do not use the forums with any regularity, if at all).  If I were you, I would the poll results with a grain of salt.

 

TL;DR - There's no visually or functionally thematic pairing in the Primaries, and it doesn't necessarily do one thing better than any other primary does (in the way, for example, that /Elec is going to drain enemy endurance).

 

That said, here are the thoughts of one single player: Plant Manipulation is just "fine."  The power functions are a bit cookie-cutter, particularly when compared to most of the Homecoming proliferation sets (T1 immob, T3 ST hold, Protection at 20/T6, 2-3 melee attacks in there).  It has Toxic damage (not widely resisted by NPC enemies) on a few attacks and can briefly add it to all your attacks with "Toxins", which is unique to the set.  But the burst damage is lower than other Blaster secondaries, and Blasters generally survive better if things die quickly, rather than by damage over time.  It is also a control heavy set, which is neither good nor bad, but it means you probably building for either ranged or close combat, not both.  (E.G. if you are going to make the most out of Vines, you probably are skipping the melee powers. If you are going to take the melee powers, you probably aren't taking Vines or Strangler because you intend to use the melee powers to finish off any enemy who gets in close.)

 

There's also the big lack of stereotypical complimentary pairings in the Primary list.  The wonderful thing about this game is that you can pair whatever you want with whatever else you want.  That said, there's a general tendency (and I stress general) to pair powersets that share a common visual or functional theme: Ice/Ice, Assault Rifle/Devices, Seismic/Earth, etc.  There isn't any Blaster primary that pairs thematically visually with Plant Manipulation.  That's going to decrease the number of people who pick up the set.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Also note that the Poll was asking people for what they consider the best Blaster sets. So you end up with Fire/Fire/Fire and Fire/Fire/Mace for maximum raw damage.

[MonteCarla]

I decided to check it out recently, and found that there's no visual option to NOT pop spines out of your entire body.
That turned me off enough to not play it, and I may not be alone there?

[arcane]

Plant has a great sustain toggle and a great build up. My AR/Plant only picked 3 secondary powers and I’m happy with it.

[Frozen Burn]

22 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, maybe 5 years ago or so, I made a Fire/plant blaster. For whatever reason, I sat this guy in day job after day job. Still doesn't have them all, because it's so far back in my pages of blasters. I have a ton of his IOs and ATOs all in the trays, waiting for me to play the character and level it. 

Here is a post where someone took a poll of what the more popular primary and secondary were for a blaster. I found it interesting that plant was at 0%. That's not to say nobody ever plays them. I'm sure someone does. But they're not popular. As the blaster I made is level 11, I'm curious as to why they didn't get one vote. Granted, the math doesn't support them - although I haven't done the math on Plant, and have never played a plant secondary blaster yet, other than the aforementioned one. 

What are the pitfalls? Should I just trash this character, or keep giving it day jobs until the secondary gets some fine-tuning in the future? Any prevailing wisdom besides just recommending fire, ice, devices or time secondary? 

 

As mentioned above, /Plant is just fine.  It's a solid set of melee and control powers like most other Blaster secondaries.  I have quite enjoyed my Water/Plant blaster. 

 

The only issue I have with it is popping the thorns out of my character's body every time I use the powers.  Also mentioned above, it's probably the same reason why most aren't keen on the set.  I think an alternate animation for the set would entice more people to play it.  ...similar to bio armor - the main look of bio armor is hideous and I avoided the set altogether no matter how good it is - but then I found out there is alternate animations, so I made a character and now quite enjoy the set.  Would be nice if they could do the same for /Plant.

 

But despite the visuals, again, the set is very solid and worth playing.  I do love the extra toxic damage it does and that you can also add it to all your attacks with Toxins.  Then as an incarnate, stacking Degenerative Radial Interface with even more toxic is quite nice.

 

[Spaghetti Betty]

I think /Plant is ok! As stated above, you only really need 3 powers from it to get the best from it (those 3 being Toxins, the sustain, and the ST Hold), but I do like to mention that Vines is a pretty good sleeper pick, as it's one of the only "Blaster mez" AoEs that can be fully proc bombed, turning it into a decent checkmate in a stressful encounter. Skewer also isn't a terrible melee attack, and Spore Cloud is one of 6 powers across the entire AT that has a -Regen component.

 

I just think it's neat!

[arcane]

9 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

I think /Plant is ok! As stated above, you only really need 3 powers from it to get the best from it (those 3 being Toxins, the sustain, and the ST Hold)

Well technically the third power I meant was the level 1 power. I skipped Strangler for low DPA.

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Well technically the third power I meant was the level 1 power. I skipped Strangler for low DPA.

That's fair! I can't see myself ever skipping the ST hold on any Blaster nowadays. It's just too strong of a tool to have!

[lemming]

I have a Stone/Plant Blaster that's a lot of fun.  Poorly built, but still viable

[arcane]

49 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

That's fair! I can't see myself ever skipping the ST hold on any Blaster nowadays. It's just too strong of a tool to have!

I think when I calculated everything it was clear that Sniper Rifle, Ignite, and Char were the three best ST attacks and Strangler might have been just a hair better than Slug as a 4th attack. But Slug is basically required anyway and could do about the same job as Strangler while still getting some kind of set bonus.
 

Unless your primary has no good ST options (like Electric where I really only want to use Zapp), I can’t imagine where I’d want any of the secondary holds besides Choking Powder. And obviously Freezing Touch / Seismic Smash if counting those. They often have hefty animations and at least one melee power further down the set does way more DPA.

Edited 10 hours ago by arcane

[Spaghetti Betty]

9 minutes ago, arcane said:

I think when I calculated everything it was clear that Sniper Rifle, Ignite, and Char were the three best ST attacks and Strangler might have been just a hair better than Slug as a 4th attack. But Slug is basically required anyway and could do about the same job as Strangler while still getting some kind of set bonus.
 

Unless your primary has no good ST options (like Electric where I really only want to use Zapp), I can’t imagine where I’d want any of the secondary holds besides Choking Powder. And obviously Freezing Touch / Seismic Smash if counting those. They often have hefty animations and at least one melee power further down the set does way more DPA.

Mhm, that makes a lot of sense from a pure DPA standpoint. But I like having the ability to stack mag on AVs by myself, so having 2 holds is how I usually go. There's been a lot of instances where I was the only player bringing holds (pug life) and I've been able to lock down AVs by myself, before Triangles.

 

There's definitely some driver bias on my end, and that's ok!