Break down IOs

[Alverant]

In other games, you can break down items into their basic components. I think being able to do that here would be helpful. Just for basic IOs, no sets (at least not at first). You wouldn't always get everything back. You may get one piece of salvage or a recipe if you are lucky. This way we won't see thousands of lv45 Disorient IOs up for auction for just one credit. There's badge potential here too.

[UltraAlt]

16 minutes ago, Alverant said:

This way we won't see thousands of lv45 Disorient IOs up for auction for just one credit.

 

I don't think that most people know that you can purchase the crafting station from the START vendor for far less than it costs to make all the non-set IOs necessary for the crafting badge.

 

17 minutes ago, Alverant said:

There's badge potential here too.

 

Are there really that many players taking the time to get all the crafting badges?

(At this point, I only get any of those if I want to display that badge name on one of my characters)

 

Myself, I don't think that there is a need to put the DEVs to all the trouble of creating this process simply for badges, an inf sink, or for the return of salvage that is readily available on the market for cheap .... when it comes to non-set IOs.

[Alverant]

27 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Are there really that many players taking the time to get all the crafting badges?

 

Yes, I believe they are. I'm one of them. Just because your playstyle is different doesn't make my suggestions trivial.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Alverant said:

Yes, I believe they are. I'm one of them. Just because your playstyle is different doesn't make my suggestions trivial.

It's not your suggestion that is trivial. It is the acquisition of recipes and common salvage for the crafting of common, non-set IOs that is trivial. You don't even need to get the recipes from anywhere, you can just directly purchase them from the crafting table. And common salvage sells for basically nothing on the AH. And if players don't want to wait for however long for low demand common IOs to sell on the AH, they can just delete them or slot new enhancements on top of them destroying them for no real cost difference than the negligible inf' they would get selling low demand IOs on the AH for 1 inf'. (And this is from a fellow badger.)

[UltraAlt]

30 minutes ago, Alverant said:

Just because your playstyle is different doesn't make my suggestions trivial.

 

Wow.

If you have to go with the insults to defend your stance, you are undermining yourself.

 

I don't feel like I need to say more. @Rudra covered it, but I don't think that I need to post a statement like I did on your other thread

"None of this is to say that you shouldn't post your ideas."

on every post that reply to anyone making suggestions.

 

It was a courtesy to post it on the other thread.

People disagreeing with you doesn't mean that they are attacking you, your ideas, your playstyle, what you think is fun, etc.

You are expressing your point of view in an area where other people get to respond with their point of view.

 

 

 

[MTeague]

While I also tend to (gradually) get all the crafting badges, I'm content with the existing scheme. 

 

I'll post common IO's for sale only if they are accuracy, defense, resist, healing, recharge, or end reduction. Everything else I just delete without even an attempt to sell them. It's not worth leaving the others up for sale for the amount of time it would take. Breaking them down into components would be, to me, just one more hassle. Buying common salvage is dirt cheap, and until you get up into the 40's, the cost of recipes isn't anything I notice. 

 

I'm not really opposed to the idea? I just feel the benefit is near-trivial.... just a feeling that you can get small parts back from what was a relatively small one-time-expense in the first place.  And to get that benefit, the devs would need to cook up a scheme, decide what's balanced and what's not, implement it, test it, and release it.  I'd way rather they focused on mission content and/or powerset tweaking than helping people feel a little bit better about spending small money for common IO's.  

 

My $0.02 USD, your milage may vary.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Alverant said:

In other games, you can break down items into their basic components. I think being able to do that here would be helpful. Just for basic IOs, no sets (at least not at first). You wouldn't always get everything back. You may get one piece of salvage or a recipe if you are lucky. This way we won't see thousands of lv45 Disorient IOs up for auction for just one credit. There's badge potential here too.

 

This is an interesting suggestion.

 

What do we do with IOs after a respec? It can be difficult to recoup costs that went into them if we crafted them (as little $$ as that may be to some folks). 

 

I know I end up with a bunch of lvl 40 common IOs after leveling a character to the 48-50 range where I typically respec. They will sell on the black market eventually but rarely for what it cost to craft them if I wanna dump them in a day or two. We already have things that breakdown in game. The common recipes and salvage are consistent. Seems potentially doable.

 

Do we have to have this.. I don't believe so.

Doesn't mean folks need poo poo your suggestion. (they don't get a vote or anything, and have no certainty as to what is easy or hard to do)

 

 

52 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Wow.

If you have to go with the insults to defend your stance, you are undermining yourself.

 

Where is the insult?

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Troo said:

It can be difficult to recoup costs that went into them if we crafted them (as little $$ as that may be to some folks). 

Seriously? A level 50 generic damage IO requires 1 Demonic Threat Report (purchasable for 200 inf' on the AH this very moment) and 1 Kinetic Weapon (purchasable for 200 inf' on the AH this very moment). I can say "this very moment" because I am right now looking on the AH in the game while typing this post. That isn't even a single level 50 minion inf' reward to get both. The crafting cost itself is 232,200 inf'. Yeah, that cost is going to hurt crafting lots of, but I sincerely doubt the devs will give us the crafting cost back for breaking down the IOs. (Edit: Especially since the OP is asking to get one piece of salvage back or maybe the recipe on a good breakdown roll. And no one in their right minds is going to buy the recipe from the AH. So the OP will get back a 200 inf' piece of salvage if it is high demand, 50 if low demand, for breaking down the generic IO. Or less return than dropping a single minion. And probably at the added cost of salvage that would be required to break down the IO like the salvage to convert, boost, or catalyze IOs if the devs follow precedent.)

 

Edited yesterday at 06:26 AM by Rudra

[Troo]

26 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Seriously?

 

Recipe cost, Salvage cost, Crafting cost multiplied by number of common IO enhancements. It can add up. 

For a new player trying to afford building out a character with IO sets, every million counts.

 

Endurance Reduction (Level 45 currently selling on the Black Market for 25,000 to 100,000)

$164,800 = Recipe cost (at a crafting station)

$164,800 = Crafting cost

$500 = Salvage cost

12 = Number of enhancements to craft

$3,961,200 Total (164,800 x 2 + 500) x 12

 

If they only sell for 50k on the Black Market that's 600K (potential $3M+ sunk costs)

Edited yesterday at 06:50 AM by Troo

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Recipe cost, Salvage cost, Crafting cost multiplied by number of common IO enhancements. It can add up. 

For a new player trying to afford building out a character with IO sets, every million counts.

 

Endurance Reduction (Level 45 currently selling 25,000 to 100,000)

$164,800 = Recipe cost (at a crafting station)

$164,800 = Crafting cost

$500 = Salvage cost

12 = Number of enhancements to craft

$3,961,200 Total (164,800 x 2 + 500) x 12

 

If they only sell for 50k on the Black Market that's 600K (potential $3,361,200 sunk costs)

Recipe sale price on AH: currently 6,666 inf'.

Result: Better to just sell the generic IO than break it down and sell the components. Want to use that recipe again on a new alt, assuming you get the recipe from the breakdown roll on a lucky roll per the OP, then you're better off just throwing the generic IO into base salvage storage and grabbing it later on that alt. Cost savings: Add up the number of generic IOs you don't need to craft by simply keeping the generic IO for later use. Breakdown better to levy towards getting set IOs? You are still overall better selling high demand generic IOs and deleting low demand generic IOs and getting the inf' you need from missions or farms than spending however much unassigned breakdown salvage cost the devs may assign to do this gambling that you might get the recipe rather than a single piece of 200 inf' common salvage to get your replacement IOs. (Edit: Yes, you will get much better payout from a vendor selling that recovered recipe than you would selling it on the AH, but again as per the OP, you will only get that recipe on a lucky breakdown roll. Most times, per the OP, you will get a single piece of common salvage that sells for nothing on the AH or to the vendor.) (Edit yet again: And selling to the vendor still nets you an approximately 60k loss before you add in the crafting cost. And for all the time spent breaking down all those IOs, you can clear at least one fast mission and reap much better payout. Depending on the number of IOs to be broken down and the steps the devs require for the process such as purchasing the possibly required breakdown salvage and breaking each IO down one at a time.)

 

Another edit: If using 12 enhancements like it looks like your post is doing, and all 12 gave a common salvage at 200 inf' paid by the purchaser, adding in the AH costs of 5% (I think, with a minimum of 5 inf' cost), would net you 2,280 inf'. ( 200 - 10 transaction fee for the purchase from payment gained = 190 inf' per enhancement broken down x 12 broken down = 2,280 inf'. Which is still less than you will get taking down a single level 50 mob. So the time spent breaking down those enhancements is much better spent doing missions.)

 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:27 AM by Rudra
Edited again to change "Conversion" to "Breakdown".

[tidge]

I'd be against the OP suggestion... but for complicated reasons relating to current ease of crafting and my personal willingness to make IOs available for cheap on the AH. Also: lotsa squeeze, little juice.

 

Personally:

 

I tend to craft common 25/30 and 45/50 recipes for the inventory space rewards. I almost always skip crafting the others; I'll post those (the first 50) recipes on the AH to earn more AH space.

 

I find it personally convenient that 25/30 is when the common IOs (almost) meet/ (finally) exceed SOs, and players can spend a lot of time (solo) between 42-47 so 45s offer utility. 50 is 50 of course. I *think* I've got at least one character with a (incomplete) second level-50 build that is mostly populated with level 50 commons, waiting for me to get back to it.

[mistagoat]

10 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I don't think that most people know that you can purchase the crafting station from the START vendor for far less than it costs to make all the non-set IOs necessary for the crafting badge.

This burnt me back when I started on HC! I wasted so much time and inf crafting all that crap to get the crafting station on my main crafter. Would have been so much cheaper and easier to just buy the crafting station for 10 million! I do get some use out of the memorization but only for the lvl 35 and lvl 50 recipes, the rest was a complete waste...

[Troo]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

Recipe sale price on AH: currently 6,666 inf'.

 

You're arguing just to argue. You asked 'seriously?' I gave a quick simple example of how it could be a couple million to someone.

 

As I wrote previously: " Do we have to have this.. I don't believe so. " but I still found it an interesting suggestion.

 

 

[arcane]

Rudra is correct. Nothing that you could possibly recoup from this (recipe and salvage both with nigh zero sale prices) that would be worth implementing new systems.

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

 

You're arguing just to argue. You asked 'seriously?' I gave a quick simple example of how it could be a couple million to someone.

 

As I wrote previously: " Do we have to have this.. I don't believe so. " but I still found it an interesting suggestion.

 

 

No, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm arguing because your post makes no sense. What you would recoup from breaking down generic IOs to sell to either a vendor or the AH even if there were no added costs for something like a required IO breakdown salvage to do so is nothing compared to what you would gain from even just street sweeping in that time. That was the point of my "Seriously?" post. That was why I followed up with the "6,666 inf" post to your response. Because seriously?! The time spent breaking down IOs would be such a phenomenal waste of time for even the most casual player to try to recoup costs with that it would be an inf' trap for the player. Not even an inf' sink, just wasted time trying to recover less inf' than the player would have gotten from doing anything that has the character taking down enemies. And if you want to add in that a player could be phenomenally lucky on their breakdown rolls and always got the recipe? Congrats, vendoring them will net you a little over 1.2M inf'. And if you're that lucky, then you could have gotten 12 rare salvage drops from enemies and sold those on the AH for more than 6M inf' combined. Not arguing for the sake of arguing. Arguing in the hopes you will see how time spent breaking down generic IOs for almost no reward is a waste of your time and you are much better off doing almost anything else in the game instead.

 

(Edit: Yes, the OP is an interesting idea. That doesn't make it a desirable one. Because I can only see two reasons why anyone would ever use this. Either that person is completely ignorant of how much they will get back doing so compared to what they would have gotten just taking down mobs, or there are badges to be earned doing so making the time wasted doing this actually worthwhile.)

 

Edit again: Oh, and what you showed? Was the inf' the player used making their enhancements. It does nothing to look at the recouped inf' breaking down those IOs would give that player. Which I am trying to show you is almost nothing. So yes, players invest a lot of inf' in making their generic IOs, just like you show. However, they won't be recovering anything worth mentioning from the OP compared to what could be earned just taking down mobs for the same amount of time invested. And that is before you add in random drops from those defeated enemies.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Rudra

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Not arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Sure seems like it.

 

and..

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Troo

[UltraAlt]

17 hours ago, mistagoat said:

This burnt me back when I started on HC! I wasted so much time and inf crafting all that crap to get the crafting station on my main crafter.

 

I was on my "start" to do the same thing, but then I realize how much I was making on the market and how much I was spending on the memorizations.

I don't even thing I made much progress before I started buying the crafting stations on characters. I don't even remember which character did the most memorizing.

 

17 hours ago, mistagoat said:

I do get some use out of the memorization but only for the lvl 35 and lvl 50 recipes, the rest was a complete waste...

 

Players that level characters seem to agree that the point to switch over to non-set IO's from SO's is 35.

 

19 hours ago, tidge said:

I tend to craft common 25/30 and 45/50 recipes for the inventory space rewards. I almost always skip crafting the others; I'll post those (the first 50) recipes on the AH to earn more AH space.

 

Aha! Now I know/remember which character(s) did a good bit of memorization!

 

 

[Jacke]

Wow, what a lot of...discussion.

 

Anyhoo, I've mostly moved away from using Common IOs since the addition of L5+ SOs and on top of that the Upgrade button on the Enhancement display.  Still use Common IOs at L47+ for their large enhancement values.  May cost more Influence over all, but I generate more Influence than I consume, so I do it for the convenience.

 

I still only get the Portable Workbench by crafting all the needed IOs.  On some Toons, like @tidge, I only get the Badges that buff the Toon salvage and recipe storage.  Mind you, getting the L45+L50 Invention Badges for buffing the recipe storage does not contribute to gaining the Portable Workbench.  But I also have a few Toons I've gotten all the Invention Badges on.  Don't craft at all with them after that, but craft on another Toon where that contributes to their Invention Badges.

 

Now, if the Portable Workbench was changed to also incorporate a Base Empowerment Station's crafting abilities, I might buy the Portable Workbench on some Toons.  Already carry Invention Salvage on some Toons for using Empowerment Stations.

 

As for @Alverant's original idea, it's interesting.  But other games almost always add that to give players a source of those breakdown products.  Usually a slow source too.  While City years ago added the much simpler solution of seeding of lots of cheap Invention salvage on the Auction House.  Solves both the supply issue and another from the Retail days: overpriced Invention salvage.  (Ah, the days of multi-million Influence costs for Luck Charms....  😺 )

 

But to add an IO breakdown method to the game would require and consume:

• Serious time to think about it to make sure of the true consequences of introducing such a system.
  • Because don't want to find out about bad consequences the hard way.
• Volunteer time to develop, implement, test, and release.

It's unlikely it'll be done unless it solves another problem, doesn't introduce problems, and is thought to be worth the time required.

 

So, yeah, there's a lot of IOs that can be crafted and most of them are effectively near useless.  And nothing can be done with them except delete them.