Focused Feedback: Powerset - Dark Miasma

[Snarky]

i will try this, but having read the whole thread my takeaway is this.

 

Black Hole, current:  freeway with broken down cars at rush hour.  Avoid at all costs

 

Black Hole, new version: freeway at rush hour, with one lane moving moderately well.   ooooh!  joy!   wow, that's.... great?

 

Having ANY enemies intangible is lunacy in modern game.  NONE of the Devs who have worked on this power or nodded in approval at the change will take it on a High End team (not and use it...)  It is a FUN-KILLER   It takes control AWAY from the Team.  It is a very high end power in the set and it might as well be a button to eject your desktop through the roof. 

[StarkWhite]

The game is *full* of powers nobody will use on a "high end team" because we're all ludicrously more powerful than the game-as-designed expects us to be (and sadly they're not going to fix that because the "but I want to feel suuuuuuuuper" crowd will cry).

Not everybody constantly plays on "high end teams" and that's okay.

[mistagoat]

58 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Having ANY enemies intangible is lunacy in modern game.

Could not agree more! If the devs are messin around under the hood of Black Hole, might as well eliminate the intangible while they have dirt under their nails. I like the trawl effect but I'll never select a power with Intang effects.

 

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

It is a very high end power in the set and it might as well be a button to eject your desktop through the roof. 

You paint a picture with words sir!

[Electronuts]

43 minutes ago, StarkWhite said:

Not everybody constantly plays on "high end teams" and that's okay.

I don't think it's useful in hardly any scenario though. They have made it less irritating, but still of no use. Dark has loads of debuff and control and this just doesnt fit in. The scenario where you would like to intangible a few random enemies is so obscure they may as well replace it. It's like a booby trap for new players.

 

If we can't get intangible removed, how about making it a toggle like dim shift.

[arcane]

If you use this power on the wrong enemy group, and it does wind up doing a bunch of phasing, can you cancel the power in your buff bar and cancel the phase?

[Snarky]

46 minutes ago, arcane said:

If you use this power on the wrong enemy group, and it does wind up doing a bunch of phasing, can you cancel the power in your buff bar and cancel the phase?

no, unless you have it on high recharge and launch it again, which evidently kills the first iteration.  based solely on my review of the thread btw

[StarkWhite]

1 hour ago, Electronuts said:

I don't think it's useful in hardly any scenario though. They have made it less irritating, but still of no use. Dark has loads of debuff and control and this just doesnt fit in. The scenario where you would like to intangible a few random enemies is so obscure they may as well replace it. It's like a booby trap for new players.

 

If we can't get intangible removed, how about making it a toggle like dim shift.

 

You don't make "random enemies" intangible. It's specifically going to be hard targets like AVs, and if you don't see the value in temporarily removing an AV from a fight while you vacuum up and clear out all its reinforcements, I don't know what to tell you.

[Snarky]

11 minutes ago, StarkWhite said:

 

You don't make "random enemies" intangible. It's specifically going to be hard targets like AVs, and if you don't see the value in temporarily removing an AV from a fight while you vacuum up and clear out all its reinforcements, I don't know what to tell you.

it is NOT just AVs.  in fact, with their resists, i am not even sure it will work on AVs and GMs.  it is certain types of mobs, that have repel resistance

 

from Templarstone on first page

"So far tested   at +4/8 Carnies  can trawl mins/lts/bosses    except the Steel Strongman Lts (they have resistance to repel )  
Cimerorans  well they  would be on the list to not use it except as an opening.   mins/lts/Bosses will all be pulled but once they are aggroed their version of Phalanx Fighting (gives them resistance to repel) turns on and then they cant be trawled ."

 

No one has mentioned testing it on AVs and/or GMs.  My guess is that will be as useful as sticking a towel in the bulkhead on the Titanic.  Might make you feel like you "did something"

 

Basically they took a completely useless power and turned it into a "It's Wonky, but it does things sometimes, YMMV" power.

 

Meanwhile, all the Devs that play will NOT take this power ever, and WILL take Fold Space.

 

[Electronuts]

2 hours ago, StarkWhite said:

 

You don't make "random enemies" intangible. It's specifically going to be hard targets like AVs, and if you don't see the value in temporarily removing an AV from a fight while you vacuum up and clear out all its reinforcements, I don't know what to tell you.

It's only mag 3, you don't get AVs with it. I'm not really sure what you get with it other than the cimerorans mess someone outlined above. It will very definitely be random.

[spiderknight]

Just curious, and if the intangible effect is to remain, why not just change it to be one way?  That is, we can hit them, but they cannot hit back for the duration.  Make the mobs panic and scatter while phased.

 

Might be a little powerful <ahem>, but could be put to good use. 

[Snarky]

19 minutes ago, spiderknight said:

Just curious, and if the intangible effect is to remain, why not just change it to be one way?  That is, we can hit them, but they cannot hit back for the duration.  Make the mobs panic and scatter while phased.

 

Might be a little powerful <ahem>, but could be put to good use. 

this would fit with the "true black hole" idea.  we are shooting INTO the black hole.  They are ...trying... to shoot OUT of a black hole...

 

But the idea of that Blackness (I believe) has more to do with the Stygian Darkness of the Underworld.  

 

2)  The power as written is just garbage.

 

3) This rewrite microwaves the garbage.  well, it's warm now...

 

 

[spiderknight]

9 hours ago, Snarky said:

this would fit with the "true black hole" idea.  we are shooting INTO the black hole.  They are ...trying... to shoot OUT of a black hole...

 

But the idea of that Blackness (I believe) has more to do with the Stygian Darkness of the Underworld.  

 

2)  The power as written is just garbage.

 

3) This rewrite microwaves the garbage.  well, it's warm now...

 

 

The power was garbage, maybe more so now given how powerful your average toon is.  I cannot think of a situation where the team needs to limit the offensive capability of the mobs, if that were to change..

 

"3) This rewrite microwaves the garbage.  well, it's warm now..."

Maybe more like smoked in a Traeger.

Edited June 6 by spiderknight

[hoodedKitsune]

1 hour ago, spiderknight said:

The power was garbage, maybe more so now given how powerful your average toon is.  I cannot think of a situation where the team needs to limit the offensive capability of the mobs, if that were to change..

 

"3) This rewrite microwaves the garbage.  well, it's warm now..."

Maybe more liked smoked in a Traeger.

Funny enough had the game stayed the way it used to be where we didn't have IOs, set bonuses and maybe even incarnate powers but keep all the changes of mobs and stuff up to now, THEN (and only then) I could see have powers that puts groups of mobs in a timeout.  The reality of the game is that we have at best almost always had stuff long the lines of, "Burn this group down...HEY Second wave is coming now, burn both groups down and don't let anyone get away......AWWW one got away, we failed getting this badge this run!" 

 

At best why hang on to what seems like an old game play/design and philosophy that was kinda outdated even back then? I am not gonna pretend to know what it's like balancing and coding stuff, but we have so many powers that are in a way useless and not in the Mid/Max type of way you see on the forums.  There are a lot of powers that are "fun" solo and maybe make ya giggle, but trying them on a team only makes you wanna cry and sorry that you did.  Some are a fast way to end up on a blacklist 🤣.  The very fact some of these powers now days are only useable/useful because of IOs should speak volumes of a lot of the old way things here and there.  

 

Again I am kind of a nobody and don't often speak on the forums, so like I normally say...

I could be 100% wrong and only leading to what might indeed be a Greek tragedy in the making.

[mistagoat]

Did some testing at 0x4 at 30, 40 and 50. Build was hastily tossed together on the fly and auto-enhanced.

I faced Freaks, Council, Nems, Rikti, Cims, DE, pretorial clockwork, cot demons.

 

At 30 and 40 it was random street mobs, radios and the first mission of the ITF. I used the beta recharge buff to spam Blackhole and nothing ever went Intangible (enemies were minion - boss).

 

At 50 I did the first few Maria Jenkins missions, minion - boss never went Intangible but EB/AV went Intangible 100% of the time. The Intangible effect could be made perma on a poorly optimized unplanned build. 

 

I'm split on this one, on one hand the trawl effect is great utility and one would want to use it on every regular spawn. On the other hand as soon as any team that isn't already struggling encounters an EB/AV it becomes detrimental and easily abused either intentionally, through lack of understanding or just not paying attention.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited June 6 by mistagoat
added build

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, mistagoat said:

I'm split on this one, on one hand the trawl effect is great utility and one would want to use it on every regular spawn. On the other hand as soon as any team that isn't already struggling encounters an EB/AV it becomes detrimental and easily abused either intentionally, through lack of understanding or just not paying attention.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

There it is then.  Why in the world leave Intangibility (the reason NO ONE takes the power, and the reason almost NO ONE will take it if kept) in the power?  Especially since the Trawl effect appears useful enough to waste a power pick / slotting on?

 

I know Devs deal with a lot.  I know they are trying to work on a moving object.  Or, one in for a 2 min pitstop, but why overcomplicate the fix.  

 

To be clear, WE ALL HATE INTANGIBILITY.  teams HATE INTANGIBILITY.  No one will have a power with it on a team.  We will get kicked/blacklisted for blackholing

[Glorificus]

Agreed, the Phasing needs to be removed from this power.  Keep the trawl effect, and maybe also root and ground flying enemies, as well as massively slow them.   Those effects make more sense for a Black Hole/gravity well that's basically crippling enemies' mobility, rather than phasing them.

 

[Parabola]

Phase powers would be much more useful if they were able to forcibly un-phase phased enemies. Combine that with the trawl and just leave any enemy that is neither phased or trawled alone and you'd have a winner. Master illusionists and that one really irritating av beware!

[Shin Magmus]

On 6/6/2025 at 6:26 AM, Snarky said:

There it is then.  Why in the world leave Intangibility (the reason NO ONE takes the power, and the reason almost NO ONE will take it if kept) in the power?  Especially since the Trawl effect appears useful enough to waste a power pick / slotting on?

 

I know Devs deal with a lot.  I know they are trying to work on a moving object.  Or, one in for a 2 min pitstop, but why overcomplicate the fix.  

 

To be clear, WE ALL HATE INTANGIBILITY.  teams HATE INTANGIBILITY.  No one will have a power with it on a team.  We will get kicked/blacklisted for blackholing

   Snarky has the right of it.  I just want to add that I hate the intangibility as well, and seeing a teammate inflict that on enemies would stall all of our progress and... dare I say... halt all of our fun!  You have the exact feedback thread here where a Beanbagger could say "akshually, I like the intangibility" and you can see unanimous opinion that nobody likes that part of the power.  Black Hole has been used to grief Hamidon the way it is now.

 

BLACK HOLE HAS BEEN USED TO GRIEF HAMIDON THE WAY IT IS NOW.

 

   This is a feedback thread, I'm now speaking to the devs: why even let that power's extreme potential for misuse remain in the game?  Do we, as a community, really need to use a flimsy justification like the cottage rule to leave in tools that are almost solely negative, with significantly more potential for harm and malicious intent than for benefit?  If you're already changing the power, then just remove the problematic part of it entirely.

[shaggy]

I've got nothing clever to add to this conversation other than intangibility SUCKS, and the idea of using a black hole to suck everything in and damage/debuff them is a lot more interesting. Keep the trawl. Rework the rest of the power.

[Indystruck]

1 hour ago, Shin Magmus said:

BLACK HOLE HAS BEEN USED TO GRIEF HAMIDON THE WAY IT IS NOW.

 

In my defense, I had been trying to see if it was worth bringing on 4*s just to phase out ambushes and ignore them, had forgotten I swapped out Petrifying Gaze for it when I phase shifted all the hamibuds, and then had to live with my shame for like a half minute when the raid leader went "okaaay who phase shifted the hamibuds" like they were a teacher talking to an eight year old who accidentally blew up a supply depot

[macskull]

Sorry, you can pry the intang out of my cold, dead hands.

[Shin Magmus]

9 minutes ago, macskull said:

Sorry, you can pry the intang out of my cold, dead hands.

   Why?  Explain why without saying "one specific abuse in one speedrun"?  Give feedback, in the feedback thread.

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, macskull said:

Sorry, you can pry the intang out of my cold, dead hands.

okay....

[macskull]

3 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

   Why?  Explain why without saying "one specific abuse in one speedrun"?  Give feedback, in the feedback thread.

It’s also a useful tool for removing specific targets from a fight.

[Snarky]

19 minutes ago, macskull said:

It’s also a useful tool for removing specific targets from a fight.

specific targets?   so, you glance at a large group of enemies, instantly realize who will be immune to the trawling and KNOW you found a way to make sure they are out of the fight.  and you KNOW the intangibility will go away right when the team is ready to attack them

 

 

you are quite the impressive player.

 

most of us will cast it, be a little shocked about who gets trawled, who gets intangible, how pissed the team gets, and will be kicked by about the 5th application