MAKE ENDURACE A NON ISSUE

[baster]

From a perspective of a new/returning player. 

Endurance is far to much of an issue, it takes away from make enjoyment big time especially in low to mid levels as you aquire your last few powers. 

 

Example Axe with WP secondary. 

Both stamina and whatever the name of the WP power power that increases endurance recovery, I have both slotted with SOs all my Axe attacks are slotted with SOs endurance reduces and I still blow through it within  1.5-2 rotations and unable to attack. What ta he'll? How is this enjoyable?, finally you get your top powers only to not be able to use them because the endurance costs are do out of whack?

 

I'm sure there will be plenty of veterans jumping in here having years of experience unlimited influance all sorts of enhancements sets bonuses telling me how this isn't an issue. Well I'm looking at it from a new/returning players perspective and I can tell you it takes away from the game enjoyment in a big way. 

 

From all the ways a game can be balanced this one is balanced around endurance starvation? Why? Powers have cool down already, on top we need to be endurance starved? 

 

I know not all power sets are as bad as this one, some are much more reasonable , but honestly this needs to be fixed and brought foen to manageable/enjoyable levels in my opinion. 

 

It's a game after all amd fun&enjoyment should be it's #1 focus not frustration.

 

I like to hear from a log of NEW and ir Returning players mostly here rather them a poop loads of have it vets to share their perspective on the endurance issue.

[VPrime]

I legitimately enjoy the "game within a game" of building to make endurance a non issue on a character.

 

I think all the different endurance management options adds to the enjoyment.

[tidge]

When I was a new player: Endurance is an issue!

 

When I was a slightly experienced player: Taking Hasten before level 20 sure makes Endurance issues worse!

 

When I was an experience player: Hey, thanks for inherent Fitness pool, and slotting my powers with enhancements really helps!

 

Where I am now: Oh yeah, it is up to me to plan to handle Endurance burn.

[lemming]

With how many things that are intertwined to endurance, definitely not.   Like it or not, the game was originally designed around it and there are a lot of powers that work off of it being part of the game.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, baster said:

Both stamina and whatever the name of the WP power power that increases endurance recovery, I have both slotted with SOs all my Axe attacks are slotted with SOs endurance reduces and I still blow through it within  1.5-2 rotations and unable to attack.

What are you fighting? Unless you're fighting a faction that drains endurance (Clockwork, Outcasts, Arachnos), you really shouldn't be having those kind of endurance issues with that slotting.

[Shin Magmus]

   I recommend learning the basics of how to build, learning the EXTREMELY efficient core few IOs that dramatically help Endurance, learning how to get Recovery Boosting temp buffs from DfB and DiB right away on a new character, learning how to purchase Survival Amplifier and Recovery Serum from the S.T.A.R.T. Vendor, and running some easy low-level TFs or other Reward Merit content in order to acquire some basic sources of inf to start purchasing these things.  Endurance is not only one of the easiest things to fix by engaging with game mechanics at all, but also something that is **even easier to fix** for various Support ATs via their buffs: and those ATs deserve to be able to feel powerful and useful by casting Speed Boost on you for example.

[mistagoat]

I don't have any deep thoughts on the state of End in the game but here are a couple ways you may be able to alleviate some of your issues.

• Make a base and place the Crucible and the Supercollider. You can get a recovery buff that lasts 2 hours from either of these for 2pcs of common salvage and 1pc of uncommon salvage. If you don't have a base all you would need is 1 room and those 2 items, it's all free.
• Get secondary Mutation from the START vendor and hope for "Pain Tolerance". That is a very nice recovery buff and you have decent chance of getting it because there aren't that many options (6 I think). Don't click it in battle though, there is a very small chance of being turned into a rikti monkey for 60 seconds.
• When you make a new toon, email them 24k inf and buy the Amplifiers from the START vendor, this will give you 8 hours of strong buffs for only 24k. You could even get away with only 8k if only buy the recovery buff.
• If you get any heal set recipes to drop, craft it up and use convertors to flip it into a Miracle +recovery or a Numina +Regen +Recovery. Do the same if you happen upon any PVP recipes and flip into a Panacea +HP +End. Admittedly this isn't very reliable as it relies on rng to get the thing you're looking for but you may get lucky. The other suggestions are easier/cheaper.

[Ghost]

Yes endurance management can be frustrating, at first.

Once you learn to manage it, barring a few powers, you won’t give it much thought.

 

How many slots do you have in endurance?

How many in the WP end power?

 

I run quite a few WP scrappers - all with SO’s (until 50) and never run into endurance issues.

 

Can you post a screen shot of how you are slotted?  We may be able to help you.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Ghost

[MTeague]

as @tidge and others said, it is a definite learning curve. 

 

It is not fun when you're just used to it. But it's a second damage meter. Over time you get good at managing it.  And occasionally, you will face enemies who specalize in hurting your endurance. They're "fun", too. 

 

One recommendation.  Make sure every single attack power has at least one Endurance Reduction SO in it.  Attacks bleed a lot more endurance over the course of a fight than all your toggles combined.  Try to put a second slot in Stamina by lvl 14.  A third by lvl 22.  Eventually, as Influence / Infamy pile up, there will be some unique IO's that can really help. They're not required. You can get by without them. But they help.  Also, I am a huge fan on a few IO sets that contain a "X% endurance reduction cost for all powers".  It's not always the easiest to squeeze in, but it's really helpful.  Good luck.

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

What are you fighting? Unless you're fighting a faction that drains endurance (Clockwork, Outcasts, Arachnos), you really shouldn't be having those kind of endurance issues with that slotting.

They're trying to level a TW/DA brute... and don't have their entire inspiration tray loaded with blues...

[golstat2003]

4 hours ago, baster said:

From a perspective of a new/returning player. 

Endurance is far to much of an issue, it takes away from make enjoyment big time especially in low to mid levels as you aquire your last few powers. 

 

Example Axe with WP secondary. 

Both stamina and whatever the name of the WP power power that increases endurance recovery, I have both slotted with SOs all my Axe attacks are slotted with SOs endurance reduces and I still blow through it within  1.5-2 rotations and unable to attack. What ta he'll? How is this enjoyable?, finally you get your top powers only to not be able to use them because the endurance costs are do out of whack?

 

I'm sure there will be plenty of veterans jumping in here having years of experience unlimited influance all sorts of enhancements sets bonuses telling me how this isn't an issue. Well I'm looking at it from a new/returning players perspective and I can tell you it takes away from the game enjoyment in a big way. 

 

From all the ways a game can be balanced this one is balanced around endurance starvation? Why? Powers have cool down already, on top we need to be endurance starved? 

 

I know not all power sets are as bad as this one, some are much more reasonable , but honestly this needs to be fixed and brought foen to manageable/enjoyable levels in my opinion. 

 

It's a game after all amd fun&enjoyment should be it's #1 focus not frustration.

 

I like to hear from a log of NEW and ir Returning players mostly here rather them a poop loads of have it vets to share their perspective on the endurance issue.

 

I disagree strongly. I like the "game within a game" of getting sets, to work around endurance for sets that have end issues. (And not all do).

 

I and many others find that actually fun. Has nothing to do with being a vet.

 

It's like PVP. Some folks enjoy, A LOT of folks don't. NEW and OLD players. Doesn't mean you get rid of the pvp zones or pvp in the game.

 

I would say though that at this point upgrading SOs after you first slot them should probably have zero cost when you hit the upgrade button on the enhancement screen.

[Ghost]

21 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

They're trying to level a TW/DA brute... and don't have their entire inspiration tray loaded with blues...

😳😳😳

Dark Armor should be how WS/PBS used to be, in that you had to first have a 50

[Forager]

5 hours ago, baster said:

Both stamina and whatever the name of the WP power power that increases endurance recovery, I have both slotted with SOs all my Axe attacks are slotted with SOs endurance reduces and I still blow through it within  1.5-2 rotations and unable to attack.

 

Umm... you should get that checked. That's not normal. Did you forget to turn off Sprint and Athletic Run again?

[tidge]

1 minute ago, Forager said:

 

Umm... you should get that checked. That's not normal. Did you forget to turn off Sprint and Athletic Run again?

 

I suppose there is the possibility that the SOs have been out-leveled.

[Forager]

11 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

I suppose there is the possibility that the SOs have been out-leveled.

 

Ooph. That would be brutal. I'm heavily invested now. I have to know the outcome!

 

What are the odds the solution really ends up being a complete overhaul of a core mechanic?

[tidge]

5 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

Ooph. That would be brutal. I'm heavily invested now. I have to know the outcome!

 

What are the odds the solution really ends up being a complete overhaul of a core mechanic?

 

Stay tuned for "MAKE INFLUEECE A NON ISSUE", with the request that only new players provide feedback...

 

[Rudra]

27 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Stay tuned for "MAKE INFLUEECE A NON ISSUE", with the request that only new players provide feedback...

 

Makes sense. How else are new players supposed to learn the ins and outs of the game except by ignoring those that have been playing for a while and only listening to those that don't know what options there are for getting things done? 🙄

 

Please note, my sarcasm is not aimed at you, @tidge. Sorry if the impression I give is otherwise.

[FupDup]

I think that since inherent Stamina, the base costs of things are generally in a fine spot, especially if you're using a powerset that comes with recovery tools (like Willpower). 

 

However, there are combos out there that lack built in recovery tools, and the generic pools available to everyone offer very little (just a few T3 powers with very long recharge timers). I do wish there were more generic choices out there for these kind of cases; Give people the option to invest in more blue juice if they want/need it (don't give it for free). 

[baster]

5 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

I disagree strongly. I like the "game within a game" of getting sets, to work around endurance for sets that have end issues. (And not all do).

 

I and many others find that actually fun. Has nothing to do with being a vet.

 

It's like PVP. Some folks enjoy, A LOT of folks don't. NEW and OLD players. Doesn't mean you get rid of the pvp zones or pvp in the game.

 

I would say though that at this point upgrading SOs after you first slot them should probably have zero cost when you hit the upgrade button on the enhancement screen.

I can appreciate that you feel differently about it and actually enjoying it. That is nothing wrong with that and we are all different at least somewhat which makes sense, life would be hells boring if we ware all the same.  

 

That said I'm sure everyone played WoW at one point in their gaming carrier and I don't know if upu remember how much of a drag the blue mana bar was on the gaming experience. It took so much fro  emersion in my opinion. Later they solved this to the point where it wosent an issue whatsoever and it felt like you could go fighting for days before having to warry about it. 

 

That didn't brake the game but made it better and more emersive in my opinion.

All though classic wow has great many things to offer that are better then the layer expansions especially pass Lich King, some of the later quality of life improvements defrnitly make sense and are greatly appropriate.

 

I think making endurance maybe not zero but at least much less of an issue especially for the most endurance hungry sets such as Axe, Spider Soldier and I'm sure several more I haven't had a chance to play yet a lot more enjoyable gaming experience for most players. Agein my opinion looking at the world though my eyes. One vantage point of billions. 

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, FupDup said:

Give people the option to invest in more blue juice if they want/need it (don't give it for free). 

I would argue that's exactly what slotting up Stamina / putting End Reducers in your attacks, is. 

And then there's the harder-core investing like a Panacea proc, Perf Shifter proc, etc. 

 

But also, there's the angle other posters have occasionally had to remind me of.  This is a Multiplayer game.  No matter how much some folks like to solo.  Certain support sets are very very good at plugging the endurance bar.  Electrical Affinity and Radiation Emission immediately jump to mind for the early game, and Kinetics and Empathy are great for mid-game and onward. When all else fails, teaming is often the answer. 

[FupDup]

3 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I would argue that's exactly what slotting up Stamina / putting End Reducers in your attacks, is. 

And then there's the harder-core investing like a Panacea proc, Perf Shifter proc, etc. 

 

But also, there's the angle other posters have occasionally had to remind me of.  This is a Multiplayer game.  No matter how much some folks like to solo.  Certain support sets are very very good at plugging the endurance bar.  Electrical Affinity and Radiation Emission immediately jump to mind for the early game, and Kinetics and Empathy are great for mid-game and onward. When all else fails, teaming is often the answer. 

Those IOs are part of what I consider the "bare minimum" baseline that almost all builds use. I was asking for extra powers and/or IO set options for extra special situations. 

 

As for teaming, that's not always realistic depending on what schedule/server shard someone is on and you can't always guarantee that there will be recovery-buffing supports present (or supports at all). And not all content attracts a large population (try forming a group for a random no-name story arc, especially a redside or goldside one). 

 

I'm not asking for a free global handout here, I'm asking for the ability to spend extra powers/slots in exchange for something. There's a cost built in, you'd have to give up something else to get them. 

[Ghost]

19 minutes ago, baster said:

I can appreciate that you feel differently about it and actually enjoying it. That is nothing wrong with that and we are all different at least somewhat which makes sense, life would be hells boring if we ware all the same.  

 

That said I'm sure everyone played WoW at one point in their gaming carrier and I don't know if upu remember how much of a drag the blue mana bar was on the gaming experience. It took so much fro  emersion in my opinion. Later they solved this to the point where it wosent an issue whatsoever and it felt like you could go fighting for days before having to warry about it. 

 

That didn't brake the game but made it better and more emersive in my opinion.

All though classic wow has great many things to offer that are better then the layer expansions especially pass Lich King, some of the later quality of life improvements defrnitly make sense and are greatly appropriate.

 

I think making endurance maybe not zero but at least much less of an issue especially for the most endurance hungry sets such as Axe, Spider Soldier and I'm sure several more I haven't had a chance to play yet a lot more enjoyable gaming experience for most players. Agein my opinion looking at the world though my eyes. One vantage point of billions. 

It really sounds like instead of learning and growing, you are dead set on just having things made easier for you - which will ultimately end with you becoming bored with the game.

 

I sure hope you reconsider, and let us help you better understand how to build characters - it can be done without spending a fortune.

In the long run, you’ll enjoy the game a lot longer.

[WumpusRat]

38 minutes ago, baster said:

I can appreciate that you feel differently about it and actually enjoying it. That is nothing wrong with that and we are all different at least somewhat which makes sense, life would be hells boring if we ware all the same.  

 

That said I'm sure everyone played WoW at one point in their gaming carrier and I don't know if upu remember how much of a drag the blue mana bar was on the gaming experience. It took so much fro  emersion in my opinion. Later they solved this to the point where it wosent an issue whatsoever and it felt like you could go fighting for days before having to warry about it. 

 

That didn't brake the game but made it better and more emersive in my opinion.

All though classic wow has great many things to offer that are better then the layer expansions especially pass Lich King, some of the later quality of life improvements defrnitly make sense and are greatly appropriate.

 

I think making endurance maybe not zero but at least much less of an issue especially for the most endurance hungry sets such as Axe, Spider Soldier and I'm sure several more I haven't had a chance to play yet a lot more enjoyable gaming experience for most players. Agein my opinion looking at the world though my eyes. One vantage point of billions. 

 

See, I disagree when you say that running out of endurance "breaks immersion". Personally, being able to "fight for days" when you're just starting out seems less immersive.

A brand new hero isn't going to be as well-versed in their abilities, won't be able to manage the strain of using them and pace themselves as easily.

More experience (and mechanically, more slots, better slotting, etc) allows the character to fight more efficiently and effectively, using their powers with less strain.

And in the late-game, when you're fully slotted and have as many holes in your powers plugged as possible, you can "fight for days" without worrying about most things. 

 

Managing your endurance for a character is part of the game. If you're struggling with the willpower set, you're definitely doing something wrong.

How many slots do you have in stamina? How many slots do you have in quick recovery? Do you have SO's in them? How many end reducers do you have in your powers?

Are all the SOs up to date? 

 

My shield/axe tank was struggling with end issues all the way to 50, and I would constantly tinker with the build to try and get a bit more duration of her capacity in combat. Now that she's got her "final build" done, she's got no end issues at all (unless I run up against stuff that drains end), and she can "fight for days", as long as I don't go too ham on stuff. No using my biggest end attack on something that has a sliver of health left, for instance. 

 

So no, making endurance "a non-issue" wouldn't add any more fun to the game. It would just be removing a layer of complexity from the game. "Dumbing it down" as it were.

End is fine. As a new player instead of asking something to be removed to make it easier, ask for advice on how to deal with it. 

 

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, baster said:

I can appreciate that you feel differently about it and actually enjoying it. That is nothing wrong with that and we are all different at least somewhat which makes sense, life would be hells boring if we ware all the same.  

 

That said I'm sure everyone played WoW at one point in their gaming carrier and I don't know if upu remember how much of a drag the blue mana bar was on the gaming experience. It took so much fro  emersion in my opinion. Later they solved this to the point where it wosent an issue whatsoever and it felt like you could go fighting for days before having to warry about it. 

 

That didn't brake the game but made it better and more emersive in my opinion.

All though classic wow has great many things to offer that are better then the layer expansions especially pass Lich King, some of the later quality of life improvements defrnitly make sense and are greatly appropriate.

 

I think making endurance maybe not zero but at least much less of an issue especially for the most endurance hungry sets such as Axe, Spider Soldier and I'm sure several more I haven't had a chance to play yet a lot more enjoyable gaming experience for most players. Agein my opinion looking at the world though my eyes. One vantage point of billions. 

For the record I’ve played just about every expansion of WoW. And I’ve found every version of it inferior to City of Heroes.

Getting around the puzzle of end management and primary/secondary set building with the variety that set bonuses, the incarnate system and procs give in this game is 1000% times more interesting than any of the “choices” I’ve played throughout WoW’s life time.
 

So you’re going to have a hard time convincing me (and I bet many other players of this game) that end should be changed in this game by comparing it to that game.

 

WoW is pretty much a game where they practically abandoned every meta system they built nearly every expansion.

Again no thanks to the original suggestion.

[Psyonico]

I’ve had a few builds where I’ve done everything “right” and still had endurance issues pre-alpha slot.  Shield/Axe and Shield/Rad come to mind.  Now, this was pre Harmonic Mind, so I don’t know how the sets would have fared if I could have taken that.

 

i wouldn’t mind another power pool that has an endurance management power in it, even if it’s locked to T4 in the pool so you have to have 2 other powers from the pool before you can take it.  Having to rely on Recovery Serum is not a fun choice to me.