How would you 'fix' Rage & Super Strength?

[arcane]

3 hours ago, ParagonKid said:

People like the 'idea' of the set more than the powers themselves, which I guess explains why Scrappers/Stalkers still want it.

Actually some of us like the extremely effective powers more than the generic boring idea.

 

If you need pointers on leveraging the set properly we are here to help.

[Maelwys]

14 minutes ago, arcane said:

Okay but it’s not going to happen and SS isn’t mediocre.

It averages out as mediocre.


Footstomp is S tier. Rage is S tier.
KO Blow is A tier.
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Haymaker is about here.
Maybe Taunt too, if that's your thing.
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The rest of the set is about a mile this way
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[kelika2]

uneffected by recharge

no crash

[Maelwys]

16 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

unaffected by recharge

no crash

I remember playing SS during the days when you could avoid the crash entirely by activating it again before the first stack wore off.
Honestly, I didn't find it particularly overpowered back then. The current crashing version vastly favours procbombing; which is a very poor state of affairs.

There are some other long-duration damage buffs out there which could serve as inspiration though - Peacebringer Inner Light (10s major buff followed by a 20s minor buff); and Warshade Sunless Mire and Dark Melee Soul Drain (30s duration and the more enemies around you, the bigger the buff). There is also some new tech in Regeneration's Reactive Regeneration which could be repurposed into a toggle "the more I get hit the bigger the damage buff I get" - a bit like a mini Fury.
 

Edited July 7 by Maelwys

[twozerofoxtrot]

I mean, we can talk about doing something about Rage but it's not just Rage in a vacuum and we see that already in the first few comments.

Super Strength is Plant Control before there was Plant Control.
 

Personally, thematically, think Rage is megastupid. Sure, some Super Strength heroes and villains "rage" (Hulk, Bane, etc) but they're the exception, not the norm. I don't want my main Inv/SS to be "raging" when she fights. I just want a strong as heck villain, Apokolips/Thanos style.

But what does that mean mechanically? Didly squat. Procing out KO Blow and Foot Stomp in all their glory and riding the +40 ToHit from Rage (you didn't think it was the damage that mattered did you?) and then doing the same for Crosspunch and Gloom, so that the -9999% damage means effectively nothing; that's Super Strength being super strong.

 

I like the suggestions of improving under-picked powers, and buffing the damage in the first three single target attacks. I'd prefer a slightly different modification to the powers themselves (a 270 arc cone for Hand Clap + damage/vectored KD and Hurl basically getting the Dominator version from Earth Assault), but as a long time SS player, that's the general direction I'd like to see. 

And as long as those powers hit like a mack truck? I don't care what you do with Rage. Dumpster it. Turn it to Build Up. Make it a Defiance-like Auto. It doesn't really matter. As long as the rest of the set feels good and it's not just Carrion Creepers and Seeds of Confusion carrying the rest of the dead weight along at mach 10.

Edited July 7 by twozerofoxtrot

[arcane]

41 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

It averages out as mediocre.


Footstomp is S tier. Rage is S tier.
KO Blow is A tier.
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Haymaker is about here.
Maybe Taunt too, if that's your thing.
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The rest of the set is about a mile this way
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None of my Tankers have room for more than 6 powers from their secondary, so after Level 1 / Haymaker / Taunt / Knockout Blow / Rage / Foot Stomp, I really could care less if the trash powers I can’t take on any Tanker are a little more trash than usual. In the end, Super Strength was the only set I have picked more than once for my squad of Tankers. Primarily because perma 20% tohit prior to enhancements makes the proc meta insanely easy to build for.

 

Sets are primarily defined by their best powers and not by the average of all 9 powers, unless you’ve got a bizarre example I haven’t thought of.
 

And sets that manage to make a meaningful contribution without 9 powers are actually at an advantage in many ways

Edited July 7 by arcane

[skoryy]

44 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

It averages out as mediocre.


Footstomp is S tier. Rage is S tier.
KO Blow is A tier.
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Haymaker is about here.
Maybe Taunt too, if that's your thing.
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The rest of the set is about a mile this way
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Energy Melee pointing at the TV like Leo DeCaprio.

[FupDup]

It’s true that most sets don’t normally want or need all 9 powers, but SS is on the opposite rare extreme end where it’s not truly a power set so much as 3 powers wearing a trench coat. 

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, FupDup said:

It’s true that most sets don’t normally want or need all 9 powers, but SS is on the opposite rare extreme end where it’s not truly a power set so much as 3 powers wearing a trench coat. 

IIRC Plant Control was that way and people screamed bloody murder when that model was torn from them. Nobody here is sincere about having a problem with skippable powers as long as the performance is there.

Edited July 7 by arcane

[FupDup]

8 minutes ago, arcane said:

IIRC Plant Control was that way and people screamed bloody murder when that model was torn from them. Nobody here is sincere about having a problem with skippable powers as long as the performance is there.

There’s a wide gulf between having no skippables and having almost the entire set be skippable. A happy medium exists somewhere inside that gulf.

 

And of course this is one of those cases where “skippable” is a euphemism for “total dogwater noob traps.”

[arcane]

2 minutes ago, FupDup said:

There’s a wide gulf between having no skippables and having almost the entire set be skippable. A happy medium exists somewhere inside that gulf.

 

And of course this is one of those cases where “skippable” is a euphemism for “total dogwater noob traps.”

6 mandatory SS powers feels fine to me. 4 mandatory powers for old Plant Control was a bit excessive though.

[ParagonKid]

"I am super strong."

 

What makes you super strong?

Do you punch much harder than people who aren't super strong?

"In many cases, no."

 

Do you lift heavy things?

"No".

 

Do you carry penalties that other people who hit just as hard (or harder) do not?

"Yes."

 

Why?

"Nobody seems to be able to articulate why except to respond because I have a power that makes my numbers look big."

 

But there are people with bigger numbers and they are not punished?

"Yes".

 

Like, it's just such an insane take to me to stan the Rage crash while looking at the set as a whole, and where it is in relation to every other melee attack set.

Edited July 7 by ParagonKid

[Troo]

20 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

I like the suggestions of improving under-picked powers, and buffing the damage in the first three single target attacks. I'd prefer a slightly different modification to the powers themselves (a 270 arc cone for Hand Clap + damage/vectored KD and Hurl basically getting the Dominator version from Earth Assault), but as a long time SS player, that's the general direction I'd like to see. 

 

These may actually be along the line of what to expect.

 

"Making every power in a set worth taking" is definitely the tone from the Devs and confirmed with their 'reworks'. 

With those changes will come adjustments, likely some janky mechanic, and a number of required powers in order to take advantage of said janky mechanic.

 

I'd love to see a simple straight forward Super Strength with Build Up leaning into disorient and knockup. (this is sooo very unlikely)

[MoonSheep]

i would combine all powers in the set and have a single, turbocharged version of knockout blow called “super mega ultra knockout blow” which has a 25 second animation time and 6 times the damage of current KO blow. it also causes all team members to freeze and observe the mesmerising windup. there’s also a 33% chance for enemies within 30 feet to be distracted, stop fighting, and instead contribute excited quips such as “ooh, he gonna do it!” and “here it comes!”

 

(i have no suggestions, i think the set is fine)

[Octogoat]

I feel like this thread needs a theme song:

 

 

[Maelwys]

2 minutes ago, Octogoat said:

I feel like this thread needs a theme song:

 

 

 

[arcane]

18 minutes ago, ParagonKid said:

"I am super strong."

 

What makes you super strong?

Do you punch much harder than people who aren't super strong?

"In many cases, no."

 

Do you lift heavy things?

"No".

 

Do you carry penalties that other people who hit just as hard (or harder) do not?

"Yes."

 

Why?

"Nobody seems to be able to articulate why except to respond because I have a power that makes my numbers look big."

 

But there are people with bigger numbers and they are not punished?

"Yes".

 

Like, it's just such an insane take to me to stan the Rage crash while looking at the set as a whole, and where it is in relation to every other melee attack set.

If needing help post build screenshot

[Talesin]

How about instead of a crash, when the time has come, the Raging character becomes uncontrollable for 10 seconds as the rage gets out of control.  The player loses control of their character and it will randomly attack friend or foe.  Then after a bit of time he/she comes to their senses and regains control.

[Andreah]

I just want the rage crash to be removed and rage balanced so that the overall DPS of the set is about the same. The thematics and feel of the crash are so bad I can't stand to play the set, even though I dearly want to.

 

Ideally, give me a self-buffing toggle power which is exclusive to rage -- you can take one or the other, but not both. 

 

OR, we could even remove Rage from the powerset and put it into a new Epic pool -- call it "Personality Defects", or something. Here's a few new powers I'd fill that pool out with:

 

Personality Defects Epic Power Pool

1. Rage (Existing): Concept: The quintessential "explosively bad temper."

Mechanics: Functions largely as it currently does in Super Strength: a potent temporary damage and To-Hit buff followed by a significant self-debuff (reduced Defense, drained Endurance, weakened attacks).

Thematic Fit: Perfectly embodies a personality defect that, while powerful, comes with considerable drawbacks. Its "crash" is its defining feature, making it a high-risk, high-reward choice for players willing to manage its downsides.

 

2. Obsessive Focus: Concept: A character's inability to let go of a task until it's perfectly done, leading to enhanced precision and efficiency.

Mechanics: Toggle power. While active, grants a moderate Accuracy bonus and a small Recharge Speed bonus to all powers. However, it applies a minor debuff to Run Speed and Perception (representing being "lost in thought").

Thematic Fit: A common "defect" that can be highly beneficial in specific situations. It allows for focused burst damage or faster cooldowns, but at the cost of mobility and situational awareness, requiring strategic activation.

 

3. Unshakeable Confidence: Concept: An almost delusional self-belief that makes the character impervious to doubt and psychological manipulation.

Mechanics: Click power, moderate cooldown. Grants a substantial, but temporary, Status Effect Resistance bonus (especially against Fear, Confuse, Hold, Sleep) and a small bonus to Damage Resistance (Psychic/Negative Energy).

Thematic Fit: Represents arrogance or an inability to be swayed, translating into powerful mental fortitude. This would be invaluable against control-heavy enemies or specific boss mechanics.

 

4. Compulsive Hoarder: Concept: A character's irresistible urge to collect and protect valuable items, even in the heat of battle.

Mechanics: Auto-power. Every X seconds (e.g., 20-30 seconds), grants a small amount of Endurance and a minor Defense (All) bonus, which stacks up to Y times (e.g., 3-5 stacks), lasting Z seconds. If the character takes a substantial hit, all stacks are temporarily lost.

Thematic Fit: A "defect" that passively benefits the character over time by "collecting" personal resources. The loss on critical hit adds a layer of vulnerability and highlights the compulsive nature--a moment of shock interrupting their careful accumulation.

 

5. Some fifth power I can't think of right now. My imagination already hurts.

 

 

And of course, we'd need a replacement for rage to fit into the Super Strength powerset:

 

Titan's Smash: Concept: A display of overwhelming physical power, allowing the user to forcefully control the battlefield with sheer strength.

Mechanics:

Type: PBAoE Stun/Taunt.

Description: The character strikes the ground with incredible force, generating a localized shockwave that disorients nearby foes and taunts them to attack the hero.

Effects:

Damage: Distance-based damage done to nearby targets starting from extreme damage for the one target closest.

Stun: Very briefly stuns enemies in a moderate radius around the target at high-magnitude, interrupting any attacks in progress.

Taunt: Generates a high amount of threat on all affected targets.

Self-Buff: Grants a few seconds' bonus to Defense (Smashing/Lethal) or a small amount of Temporary Hit Points after activation, representing bracing for the incoming attacks.

Recharge: Moderate.

Thematic Fit: This power perfectly aligns with Super Strength's identity. Instead of a volatile buff, it's a utility/control power that demonstrates brute force. It provides good damage, a bit of crowd control, a lot of threat generation, and a moment of defensive hardening, enhancing the role without relying on a self-detrimental mechanic. It emphasizes physical presence and control, making the player feel like a dangerous, attention-demanding presence on the battlefield, and doesn't excessively overlap either Hand Clap (with space-clearing knockback) or Foot Stomp (with greater damage potential to more targets).

Edited July 7 by Andreah

[Octogoat]

20 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

 

 

[Forager]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

I've been playing this game for 20+ years and I've never made a character with Super Strength. It simply doesn't interest me. Change Rage any way you like and it still won't interest me.

 

Well, that settles it. We were all waiting to hear from a person with zero knowledge and no opinion on a topic. Thanks for this insightful contribution.

[jprewitt73]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

99% time you do not die to the crash.  you stop having fun.  every two minutes. school crossing guard comes out, train track arms come down, someone pours ice water on you.

 

then you are fine again.  go ahead, have fun.  you have two minutes.

 

I tell my husband all the time that 2 minutes is more than enough time. 

 

 

Also, I wouldn't change a thing on Super Strength. Not every set has to be top tier. Some sets have to be middle of the road. SS is middle of the road, and that's okay. 

 

[Andreah]

7 hours ago, Snarky said:

99% time you do not die to the crash.  you stop having fun.  every two minutes. school crossing guard comes out, train track arms come down, someone pours ice water on you.

 

then you are fine again.  go ahead, have fun.  you have two minutes.

Unless you have so much recharge you are stacking Rage, and stacking it multiple times over. Then it's just constant crashes. The better it is, the worse it is. Stop the madness!

Edited July 7 by Andreah

[ParagonKid]

56 minutes ago, jprewitt73 said:

 

I tell my husband all the time that 2 minutes is more than enough time. 

 

 

Also, I wouldn't change a thing on Super Strength. Not every set has to be top tier. Some sets have to be middle of the road. SS is middle of the road, and that's okay. 

 

 

A set that carries extra penalties for being merely middle of the road is NOT okay.

 

SS pays its dues, unlike any other melee set, and for that reason it warrants being the pinnacle of melee sets as long as every other set does not have artificial punishments inflicted on them.

Edited July 7 by ParagonKid

[Andreah]

13 minutes ago, ParagonKid said:

 

A set that carries extra penalties for being merely middle of the road is NOT okay.

 

Especially, imo, one that is THE ICONIC superhero powerset.

Edited July 7 by Andreah