The Idea Police

[Forager]

2 hours ago, battlewraith said:

What followed was a reframing of the discussion in terms of censorship and what people were permitted to say.

Now, you have people dropping in, declaring that it's unproductive, and requesting that it be locked.

 

The irony was not lost on me. But if it's going to be tragic... at least it's poetic.

 

I knew that there would be people who experienced difficulty with what I said. I've used the internet before. I did NOT expect the consistency, numbers and intensity, though.

 

There was a guy in the thread earlier who said that the many outweigh the few when it comes to perception... and he meant it unironically. Like that was the defense of his point. More people said it. His group was bigger. Again, I'm not new to the internet... but I do get surprised every once in awhile.

 

I knew the plot was gone when the fact that I reply meant that I'm wrong lol. Think about how chilling an insinuation that is.

Edited Sunday at 01:57 AM by Forager

[PeregrineFalcon]

4 hours ago, battlewraith said:

The irony and double standards present here are something you seldom see outside of government. 

If you don't understand why a thread like this starts, pay attention to how it ends. That shows you all you need to know.

Yes, people are tired of seeing this thread at the top of the "All Activity" list. And, since they don't have the self-control necessary to just not click on a thread that they're tired of, they all start posting "Ok, it's over, shut it down." And yes, it is hypocritical when people post that they're going to disagree with your posts whether you like it or not and then they turn around and demand that the thread be shut down, but it's been standard procedure since this forum first opened.

 

Like I said, most of you want so desperately to control what other people are allowed to say and how they're allowed to say it. Maybe you all should apply to be moderators.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to continue to disagree with suggestions that I disagree with, and yes I am being excellent to everyone. Now I'm going to go party on.

[Troo]

10 hours ago, Ghost said:

1.  Only agree with me

2.  No voting allowed

3.  If your only going to criticize and not improve the conversation, you should not be a part of it.

 

Ah sarcasm..

You got me at least. I thought 'hey wait a second isn't that what.. ohhh"

 

------- -- -------

 

As to 'The Idea Police': 

It's often surprising (to me) when and where folks write 'don't tell me what to do' or 'don't tell me how to [ fill in the blank ]' and then do-that-exact-thing.

I've likely done it more than once or twice.

 

I'm not sure if Forager is a master baiter butt wow they know how to get a response. Is this a cultivated skill? They have used the internet before!

4,100 views

226 replies

AND while I don't agree with much of what has been written they have provided an example of some 'Idea Police' at work.

Thus solving the@GM_GooglyMoogly conundrum. "Maybe the "Idea Police" are more prevalent on older threads." 

 

Does this all put Moogl-ster in a bit of a pickle? 

Cave to one group and end the discussion there by potentially reinforcing the 'Idea Police' premise. 

Or, let this go on and on until it simply burns out consuming moderator time and effort along the way.

Could there be a third option?

Check back whenever. Same bat time, same bat channel.

 

Edited Sunday at 06:33 AM by Troo
to some lucky reader(s); enjoy the the gift above & never 'grow up'

[Shin Magmus]

   My threads have gotten locked because contrarians showed up to do nothing but reply with every single point with "nu uh, feels fine to me."  If you think I haven't been there with you, I have.  But moderation on this forum in general is incredibly uneven, so my advice is to just give up hope.

[Super Atom]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

Does this all put Moogl-ster in a bit of a pickle? 

 

 

couldn't help myself

 

Edited Sunday at 09:06 AM by Super Atom

[JasperStone]

8 hours ago, Forager said:

There was a guy in the thread earlier who said that the many outweigh the few when it comes to perception... and he meant it unironically. Like that was the defense of his point. More people said it. His group was bigger. Again, I'm not new to the internet... but I do get surprised every once in awhile.

 

I am that guy.

To clarify my point.

 

You were complaining that people were missing the nuances of your post.

Apparently, many of us were missing your nuance, while only a few grasped it.

THAT was my point.

 

You are reframing my response to suit your needs.

Shifting the goal posts.

You are misrepresenting me and my statement.

 

 

[Forager]

6 hours ago, Troo said:

AND while I don't agree with much of what has been written they have provided an example of some 'Idea Police' at work.

Thus solving the@GM_GooglyMoogly conundrum. "Maybe the "Idea Police" are more prevalent on older threads." 

 

If you go look at the (Future) Echo Founders Falls thread you can see them at work. It's a great example.

 

The responses in that thread are so mind numbing and pedantic... it seems almost malicious, like they do this for sport. I really can't tell if these people are genuinely that obtuse or they're pretending to be... and I'm not even sure which is worse.

 

The poster even couched their example with the fact that the assets already exist in game, but the Idea Police still found a way...

 

[Shin Magmus]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

Hidden post. - GM_GooglyMoogly

   This is the kind of comment you write that will get deleted by a GM/Mod imminently.  You just can't help yourself.

Edited Sunday at 12:37 PM by GM_GooglyMoogly

[Ghost]

10 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

If you go look at the (Future) Echo Founders Falls thread you can see them at work. It's a great example.

 

The responses in that thread are so mind numbing and pedantic... it seems almost malicious, like they do this for sport. I really can't tell if these people are genuinely that obtuse or they're pretending to be... and I'm not even sure which is worse.

 

The poster even couched their example with the fact that the assets already exist in game, but the Idea Police still found a way...

 

Wait here buddy.

Ill let those dirty rats know that you said they shouldn’t be responding!

 

 

[arcane]

I literally responded to that thread that I was down with a new zone. I don’t understand how you all are not worried about Forager’s well being at this point.

[tidge]

15 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

If you go look at the (Future) Echo Founders Falls thread you can see them at work. It's a great example.

 

The responses in that thread are so mind numbing and pedantic... it seems almost malicious, like they do this for sport. I really can't tell if these people are genuinely that obtuse or they're pretending to be... and I'm not even sure which is worse.

 

So, about that thread... literally no one has responded with anything like "it wouldn't be worth the devs time", despite HC having Khallisti Wharf unpopulated for approximately 5 years of HC being live.... which was one of the OP beefs in this thread.

 

We have had numerous suggestions for new maps (and even new zones, *1) over the HC years, so it isn't like that discussion has never played out. The responses in that thread literally are suggestions to make it more palatable in terms of effort and utility. Nobody in that thread is arguing against "wouldn't it be cool if...", but the best followup suggestion was "could we get it as an AE map?" because that one gives agency to the players. If that thread is an example of anything, it's a good example of a player having a quicky idea and sharing it... and then pretty much defending that quicky idea as if their life depends on it.

 

(*1) It shouldn't take much effort to find suggestions for AE map/new zone requests for: Destroyed Galaxy City, Floating Mu Temples, the underground connection between Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable, revamped Boomtown, etc. Not to mention 5 years of requests/ideas for Khallisti Wharf.  Thicker skin may be required.

 

[battlewraith]

9 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Like I said, most of you want so desperately to control what other people are allowed to say and how they're allowed to say it. Maybe you all should apply to be moderators.

 

 

Everyone here has an interest in this control, even you. To understand this, simply imagine these forums with no moderators at all. 

 

People are framing this like it’s a bunch of soft ass people that can’t take criticism crying for mods to protect them from meanies. It’s not.

 

It’s more like this: people get excited about ideas, so they go to make a suggestion. Some crusty village elder crawls out of the woodwork and says “Ooooooooh if you had only searched the forums for the faultline donut shop flame war from 2006 you would understand how we beat this dead horse because it didn’t fit with the lore!!!”

 

It’s not a struggle for control. It’s about the spiritual life of the forums. And the fact that those sick Cheap Trick roasts have been stale for decades lol.

[tidge]

43 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

It’s more like this: people get excited about ideas, so they go to make a suggestion. Some crusty village elder crawls out of the woodwork and says “Ooooooooh if you had only searched the forums for the faultline donut shop flame war from 2006 you would understand how we beat this dead horse because it didn’t fit with the lore!!!”

 

It’s not a struggle for control. It’s about the spiritual life of the forums. And the fact that those sick Cheap Trick roasts have been stale for decades lol.

 

Folks who participate in the suggestion forum are supposed to assume good will. This quoted post isn't demonstrating good will.

 

Folks who make suggestions should assume that their ideas are not any better than "half-good", to avoid having their feelings hurt when the suggestion isn't received with warm fanfare.

 

One common issue with "excitedness" about an idea is that it is VERY difficult for someone who is "excited" to perceive the entire context of the suggestion. There have probably been a thousand trivial quick observations I've made in-game along the lines of "wow, that took one step longer than I wanted... maybe I should suggest it be changed"... but after some thought I'd realize I wasn't being the most clever or efficient about how to do that thing, or that changing that thing would have some negative effects on other things, etc. ... it is important to be able to tell the difference between a "me issue" and a "game issue".

 

 

[TheMoneyMaker]

9 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Check back whenever. Same bat time, same bat channel.

 

Don't you mean "Same bait time, same bait channel"?

[Forager]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

So, about that thread... literally no one has responded with anything like "it wouldn't be worth the devs time", despite HC having Khallisti Wharf unpopulated for approximately 5 years of HC being live.... which was one of the OP beefs in this thread.

 

Lol wut? Ok, man. Have fun.

[battlewraith]

23 minutes ago, tidge said:

Folks who participate in the suggestion forum are supposed to assume good will. This quoted post isn't demonstrating good will

 

You’re one of the posters who has given me the “maybe this just isn’t your game” line. So pardon my skepticism about the good will comment.

You’re also elaborating on how people should view their ideas and how excitement is problematic with regard to being “clever” and/or efficient.

You’re doing the exact same thing as the OP except in line with your own priorities.

 

[battlewraith]

12 minutes ago, Forager said:

Lol wut? Ok, man. Have fun.

 

This thread:

”People shouldn’t be so pedantic.”

”Stop controlling what I’m allowed to say!”

 

That thread:

”I propose an echo version of Founder’s Falls.”

”People use Founders Falls all the time, don’t mess it up.”

 

Lol.

[tidge]

8 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

You’re one of the posters who has given me the “maybe this just isn’t your game” line. So pardon my skepticism about the good will comment.

 

 

Assuming good will is literally the first GM suggestion in the "Concerning this forum..."

 

As for how I got to the point of suggesting to @battlewraith specifically that the game may not be for them, that was after a whole lotta posts where they didn't want to test their builds on Brainstorm, didn't want to be bothered collecting IO pieces, didn't want to play repeated content to get XP/Inf/drops, was bored with the content they did play, etc... so it isn't as if that is my default response to players.

 

I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth with you two... responding to every post is childish, and it often ends up looking like personal attacks. More threads have been closed because one member simply cannot help themselves but to reply to every post made in it.

[battlewraith]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

 

Assuming good will is literally the first GM suggestion in the "Concerning this forum..."

 

As for how I got to the point of suggesting to @battlewraith specifically that the game may not be for them, that was after a whole lotta posts where they didn't want to test their builds on Brainstorm, didn't want to be bothered collecting IO pieces, didn't want to play repeated content to get XP/Inf/drops, was bored with the content they did play, etc... so it isn't as if that is my default response to players.

 

I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth with you two... responding to every post is childish, and it often ends up looking like personal attacks. More threads have been closed because one member simply cannot help themselves but to reply to every post made in it.

You have not shown me good will. I’m just pointing that out. I have many stances you don’t agree with.

I have not, AFAIR, suggested to anyone that they leave.

[Forager]

6 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

That thread:

”I propose an echo version of Founder’s Falls.”

”People use Founders Falls all the time, don’t mess it up.”

 

Lol.

 

Don't forget that Kallisti Wharf was unpopulated for 5 years... 

[battlewraith]

2 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

Don't forget that Kallisti Wharf was unpopulated for 5 years... 

 

Why you calling it an echo if the original was never destroyed. Riddle me that!

[golstat2003]

If that Founders Falls thread is supposed to be an example of anything negative, no one in this thread or any suggestion thread is EVER going to have the same perception.

 

My perception is that the OP and others jumped into correct the misconception that they were asking for FF to be done away with and made into an Echo. What they clarified was that they wanted an additional echo zone alongside FF. Then someone suggested an AE.

 

That's called discussion. If that's an example of what folks are against we have a serious problem. lol

 

EDIT: The serious problem being humanity and our lack of being able to have reading comprehension and understanding. And the last post in that thread literally says it would be a neat idea to have an alternative zone.

 

Edited Sunday at 04:01 PM by golstat2003

[golstat2003]

14 minutes ago, Forager said:

 

Don't forget that Kallisti Wharf was unpopulated for 5 years... 

 

That actually ins't surprising seeing as that's how long it takes our unpaid dev team to build things out. Unless someone is willing to pay them for this to be their primary job, that's just how long things are gonna take.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, battlewraith said:

People are framing this like it’s a bunch of soft ass people that can’t take criticism crying for mods to protect them from meanies. It’s not.

Maybe if this isn’t exactly what is going on, you and Forager should stop crying for mods to protect you from meanies every single time you get a reply that deviates from “Amazing Idea - Implement Today!”

 

Oh wait that’s what this entire thread is, and you will never ever stop.

[battlewraith]

7 minutes ago, arcane said:

Maybe if this isn’t exactly what is going on, you and Forager should stop crying for mods to protect you from meanies every single time you get a reply that deviates from “Amazing Idea - Implement Today!”

 

Oh wait that’s what this entire thread is, and you will never ever stop.

Thanks for your valuable input. I didn’t think you’d be able to top stuff like “are you ok?” But you managed to do it.