A very stupid idea. I present "Bad HOs".

[Ukase]

I posted this in the controller forum. I was having a chat with some folks in The Abyss about how the rng is just a very fickle beast sometimes. I've gotten my share of acc/dams, sure. But I do feel at a loss when I get something like a Golgi or a ribosome. Someone in the league mentioned Golgis are great for spirit ward. 

Like when would I ever use spirit ward? You'd have to take the sorcery pool for that. Eww! I've hated that pool ever since they nerfed  adjusted the recharge on Rune of Protection. So, maybe it's time to just put the sour grapes on that aside and try to make lemonade out of the many lemons. (peroxisomes and endoplasms) 

This is what I've got so far. Probably not the finished product. And the scary part is - with IO set bonuses, I could probably make fade permanent, making this controller very interesting to play. 

I've no idea if there are enough stereocilla's to actually do this build. Maybe one day, the powers that be will revisit the HO drop table. Because Lady Grey TF is just too long with some pugs, and on speed teams, I can barely keep up. So, I'll spend the inf - but hard to do when they're not available on the AH. 

For now, it's a decent joke for me to grin at. 

Bad HOs - Controller (Ice Control - Darkness Affinity).mbd

[Yomo Kimyata]

Things that are great about HOs:  lvl 53 gives you 38.3% enhancement (schedule A) in every category.  Whether that's a double or a triple.  That enhancement scales down to level 1 if you exempt.  You can slot as many of each one in a build or even in a specific power as you have room and/or budget for.

 

Things that aren't so great about HOs:  no set bonuses.  On the surface, this may not be a big deal, but there are a lot of really good set bonuses, and there are often really cheap or easy replacements for HOs that imo provide better overall characteristics.

 

I stopped using Mids a while ago, and I'm currently only mentally categorizing HOs and DSOs as which came first (I accept that there are Empowerment DSOs, but they will always be Nucleolus HOs to me; vice versa with Stereolabcilia HOs and Deceleration DSOs -- the second is the standard to me even though they are bucketed as the same thing in the /AH).  I always want to make something work with some of the unpopular HOs, but meh it often doesn't seem worth it.

 

There are definitely some exceptions, but maybe one out of a few dozen of my characters?  not enough for me to make a living on.

[Octogoat]

Proteus mirabilis HOs just dropped.

[SeraphimKensai]

I've said for a long time the best solution to HO/sHO/Dsync/Titan is to allow them to be convertible via converters.

 

This will help equalize the value of them over time and help available stock of all of them. And then there is something to do with bad HOs aside of deleting them.

[Ukase]

31 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I've said for a long time the best solution to HO/sHO/Dsync/Titan is to allow them to be convertible via converters.

 

This will help equalize the value of them over time and help available stock of all of them. And then there is something to do with bad HOs aside of deleting them.

My understanding is there's some "code limitations" preventing this from happening. I've no idea what that specifically means, though. Maybe it's just we don't have a volunteer programmer willing or able to code it. Maybe there's some other issue preventing it from being a thing. No idea. 

But, if that is the case, they could easily re-visit the drop rate, and where/how these enhancements drop. 

As of now, what I imagine a low demand enhancement - the stereocilia/Deceleration (bucketed as the same thing) there are only 14 of these for sale. 8 of them being level 50. 

 

Now, there's 361 people bidding on these at a price, presumably lower than 16M. No way to know other than sell a bunch for cheap. 


The Cyto, one of the more popular ones

 

Only 37 total Cyto for sale, with over 1/3 of them being lower than level 50. There are 2400 bids for all of them, collectively. 

The Acc/threat/Rec

Only 23 of them in total - and I'd bet more folks would bid on them, but they're the most expensive. 850 bids for them, collectively. 


Conversely, 1306 Centrioles are available. (across all levels)  Looking at the price...amazing there are any outstanding bids at all. 


From a marketing perspective, someone might be buying them, combining to make 53's and relisting. Never know when someone who doesn't know any better is going to come along and pad your pockets. 

I could go on, but the point is pretty clear. There are players that would use these if they were more readily available. I'm not saying make the Acc/threat/Rec as easy to get as a dam/mez. I'm just saying look at the drop rates for all of them. Even some of them out. 

Amlyoplast, Stereocilia, the cytoskeleton - all three could use a little glance and see if their drop rate odds could be improved. 

[SeraphimKensai]

21 minutes ago, Ukase said:

My understanding is there's some "code limitations" preventing this from happening. I've no idea what that specifically means, though. Maybe it's just we don't have a volunteer programmer willing or able to code it. Maybe there's some other issue preventing it from being a thing. No idea. 

But, if that is the case, they could easily re-visit the drop rate, and where/how these enhancements drop. 

As of now, what I imagine a low demand enhancement - the stereocilia/Deceleration (bucketed as the same thing) there are only 14 of these for sale. 8 of them being level 50. 

 

Now, there's 361 people bidding on these at a price, presumably lower than 16M. No way to know other than sell a bunch for cheap. 


The Cyto, one of the more popular ones

 

Only 37 total Cyto for sale, with over 1/3 of them being lower than level 50. There are 2400 bids for all of them, collectively. 

The Acc/threat/Rec

Only 23 of them in total - and I'd bet more folks would bid on them, but they're the most expensive. 850 bids for them, collectively. 


Conversely, 1306 Centrioles are available. (across all levels)  Looking at the price...amazing there are any outstanding bids at all. 


From a marketing perspective, someone might be buying them, combining to make 53's and relisting. Never know when someone who doesn't know any better is going to come along and pad your pockets. 

I could go on, but the point is pretty clear. There are players that would use these if they were more readily available. I'm not saying make the Acc/threat/Rec as easy to get as a dam/mez. I'm just saying look at the drop rates for all of them. Even some of them out. 

Amlyoplast, Stereocilia, the cytoskeleton - all three could use a little glance and see if their drop rate odds could be improved. 

Well I agree a balance pass to the drop rate is merited, I think I'm going to list a few provocations I have in my enhancement bins and run some tribox Aeons this weekend to replenish.

[tidge]

19 minutes ago, Ukase said:

My understanding is there's some "code limitations" preventing this from happening. I've no idea what that specifically means, though. Maybe it's just we don't have a volunteer programmer willing or able to code it. Maybe there's some other issue preventing it from being a thing. No idea. 

 

The 'limitation' is real... but I am genuinely curious which is the more true statement:

• The HC devs want the HO/DS to be un-convertable (and/or unfungible on the market)
• The HC devs looked at what it would take to make them convertable/fungible and saw a limitation that prevented them from doing so

Based on how Common IOs work, boosting/attuning, and the fact that HOs were explicitly made (after a Live fix) such that they can only boost aspects of a power that can take IOs for that aspect (sorry, Membranes won't improve recharge times in Link Minds!)... I can sort of see why converters wouldn't work and why the market may not 'bucket' HO/DS. in list form:

1. We can't convert common IOs
2. IOs need to be in a set  in order to be converted (see also conversion rules for levels, types, rarities)
3. We can't attune common IOs
4. We can't apply boosters to HOs (we have to combine them)
5. The market doesn't sell boosted IOs
6. We can combine HO/DS (and DO/SO are the only other enhancements that allow this, IIRC)
7. We have powers that can take HO/DS but may have attributes unaffected... which is explicitly different for set pieces (Adjusted Targeting in Link Minds does boost recharge times!).. so they are effectively type-restricted rather than set-allowed.

I wonder how much 'out-of-the-box' thinking has been applied to this problem.... but it is obviously a highly constrained problem.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

The 'limitation' is real... but I am genuinely curious which is the more true statement:

• The HC devs want the HO/DS to be un-convertable (and/or unfungible on the market)
• The HC devs looked at what it would take to make them convertable/fungible and saw a limitation that prevented them from doing so

 

I find it difficult to believe it is the former, since this is so incredibly niche.

 

And as for un-convertability, I just printed a bug report because I created a lvl 53 D/E DSO on one character from lvl 50s, emailed it to myself, pulled it off email and suddenly it is a lvl 53 End Mod/Rech DSO.  Definitely not human error, mainly because I had specifically double checked it because I had deliberately decided to use the email system rather than trade it to myself on the /AH.

 

So maybe you can make Provocation DSOs after all!

 

EDIT:  Interestingly the End Mod/Rech DSO disappeared and the D/E showed up on original character after rebooting.  Odd stuff.

Edited Friday at 08:29 PM by Yomo Kimyata

[Snarky]

One of WoW's expansion had this weird feature.  you take a piece of treasure equipment, put it in a goblin machine, and shatter it.  this gave you certain special resources,  to build different equipment.  

 

maybe they could install a Hami-Obliterator that spits out random special salvage then can then be used to make different synthetic Hamis....?

[Ukase]

Well, the way things are now; nothing is broken. Sometimes it is indeed best to leave well-enough alone. But, I do think it would be much simpler to allow certain HO/D-Syncs to drop a smidge more often. 

[Gerswin Jr]

7 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I've said for a long time the best solution to HO/sHO/Dsync/Titan is to allow them to be convertible via converters.

 

This will help equalize the value of them over time and help available stock of all of them. And then there is something to do with bad HOs aside of deleting them.

I am not a fan of this idea for game balance reasons, but I stockpiled a few thousand 'worthless' HOs just in case. I suggest you do the same if you have mule /ah toons.

[Ukase]

10 hours ago, Gerswin Jr said:

I suggest you do the same if you have mule /ah toons.

Have you heard anything in the dark whispers of Beta? 

[Tiger Shadow]

If code limitations prevent us from using converters on HOs, I'd be satisfied with an NPC who can exchange them.

[SeraphimKensai]

46 minutes ago, Tiger Shadow said:

If code limitations prevent us from using converters on HOs, I'd be satisfied with an NPC who can exchange them.

I'd fathom that HOs/sHOs/DSO/etc could be added to a new IO category that is comprised solely of HOs and their like to enable them to be convertible via converters.

 

Otherwise an NPC to trade them for others. Maybe they trade them in for a token. Which is used to buy them from the vendor at a tier range going from 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 5:1.

 

13 hours ago, Gerswin Jr said:

I am not a fan of this idea for game balance reasons, but I stockpiled a few thousand 'worthless' HOs just in case. I suggest you do the same if you have mule /ah toons.

What balance reasons are you referring to? Making HOs of all types more accessible for everyone seems like an equitable ideal that seems in line with the very nature of balance.

 

But then again maybe you're referring to the existing economic stratification of the player base that makes it more difficult for newer players to be able to slot things like veteran players?

 

Regarding your suggestion about stockpiling...Yes I have a stockpile of enhancements, as I've been here for a long time, which I assume is obvious given my 3k+ post count, have close to 300 lvl 50s, and the majority of all my toons are IOd to the gills.

 

But hoarding the wealth doesn't reduce the economic barriers that newer players face in being able to build our their characters. So for that reason having the ability to convert a HO to a more useful type is balanced (as the effort required to get them is the same whether it's a Centriole or a Cyto, or a Amylophast vs an Ectosome).

[Yomo Kimyata]

Whenever the topic of converting HOs comes up, my first instinct is to think that it sounds a little Veruca Salt-y.  I want to win the jackpot every time!!!  I mean, in theory it should put equalization pressure on differences in prices across HO types, but it's basically a rounding error for many/most players.

 

One idea is for HO-producing events to reward HO credits rather than RNG rolls.  One credit from a Hami raid or an Eden run gets you 2 Perixosomes, or ten credits gets you a Cyto.  Not fair, I want a Cyto every time, says Veruca.

 

16 hours ago, Gerswin Jr said:

I am not a fan of this idea for game balance reasons, but I stockpiled a few thousand 'worthless' HOs just in case. I suggest you do the same if you have mule /ah toons.

 

Personally, I consider this a "happiness hedge."  If for some reasons the devs are actually able to make this happen, I will be unhappy because I think it's only to appease the Verucas of this gaming system, but I will be happy because I will then flood the market with thousands of converted HOs.  *shrug*

[Hedgefund2]

Personally I like having random events that I can "lose".  Once upon a time you'd see purple text across your screen and you were filled with anticipation to see if you got elated by an apocalypse or heartbroken by a Fortunata Hypnosis.  Now, while I'm still happy to see purple text across the screen, I may not even bother looking to see what it is because, worst case, it's 1-3 converters away from something I can use.

 

Today, Aeon (and advanced LG) are the only means of attaining that same thrill, the one you get from a royal flush at the casino.  A few weeks ago I triple boxed Aeon and got 2 provo drops.  That was pretty much one of the top 10 days of my life.  I'm ok with a few acc/to-hit debuff/def debuff HOs along the way to get that high from an unlikely great drop.

Edited Saturday at 06:54 PM by Hedgefund2

[Luminara]

This thread isn't what I expect from something titled "bad hos".

 

[Ukase]

I am wondering if the name is too ...colorful for some folks. That is the name of the character. Bad HOs. But someone will likely go there, lol. 

[MoonSheep]

On 7/18/2025 at 7:23 PM, Ukase said:

My understanding is there's some "code limitations" preventing this from happening. I've no idea what that specifically means, though. Maybe it's just we don't have a volunteer programmer willing or able to code it. Maybe there's some other issue preventing it from being a thing. No idea. 

But, if that is the case, they could easily re-visit the drop rate, and where/how these enhancements drop. 

As of now, what I imagine a low demand enhancement - the stereocilia/Deceleration (bucketed as the same thing) there are only 14 of these for sale. 8 of them being level 50. 

 

Now, there's 361 people bidding on these at a price, presumably lower than 16M. No way to know other than sell a bunch for cheap. 


The Cyto, one of the more popular ones

 

Only 37 total Cyto for sale, with over 1/3 of them being lower than level 50. There are 2400 bids for all of them, collectively. 

The Acc/threat/Rec

Only 23 of them in total - and I'd bet more folks would bid on them, but they're the most expensive. 850 bids for them, collectively. 


Conversely, 1306 Centrioles are available. (across all levels)  Looking at the price...amazing there are any outstanding bids at all. 


From a marketing perspective, someone might be buying them, combining to make 53's and relisting. Never know when someone who doesn't know any better is going to come along and pad your pockets. 

I could go on, but the point is pretty clear. There are players that would use these if they were more readily available. I'm not saying make the Acc/threat/Rec as easy to get as a dam/mez. I'm just saying look at the drop rates for all of them. Even some of them out. 

Amlyoplast, Stereocilia, the cytoskeleton - all three could use a little glance and see if their drop rate odds could be improved. 

 

they are all readily available, some are just in demand more than others

 

further to that, all of them have availability on the marketplace

 

and ontop of that, there is a huge abundance of influence on HC. if anything, prices haven’t kept pace with the amount of influence available in the economy

 

the threat/acc/rech ones are an anomaly, but the prices on the rest of them seem fine and proportionate to the benefit

[tidge]

I've subtly tried to incorporate each HO/DS into one or more builds... but there are some where I simply can't convince myself that frankenslotting that piece is better than a different choice of a single piece or pursuing a 2-piece set bonus. For example: I've yet to find a place where a HO that enhances Damage/Endurance Reduction is objectively better choice of a single slot or leveraging (at least) a 2-piece bonus.