More Perception in Epics

[CoeruleumBlue]

I still think it's pretty weird you can make a character who's Psi/Psi/Psi or Dark/Dark/Dark and not get a single +Perception booster from any of your powers. Yes there's Rectified Reticle and Tactics, but that won't get you to max perception, even using Tactics, Rectified Reticle, and Warp won't get you to max perception unless you have a primary, secondary, or epic pool power with +Perception.

 

Can't some of the psi and dark armors in Epic Pools and Patron Pools come with it? Right now the only one that has it is like Mace Mastery for Controller/Dominator and one that's not available to those classes has one on of all things Ice Mastery, but the Psionic Mastery and Dark Mastery for those pools doesn't have it even though most armors in psionic and dark sets do come with it. It's super weird right now that the only way Dominator can get max perception at all is Mace Mastery and Controller can do /Time as a secondary, but that's widely considered not to work super well with sets like Mind or Dark that involve a lot of clicking, and sets such as /Empathy and /Pain that are largely painted as the psychic set don't come with it. /Rad doesn't have a stealth debuff either which I would expect it to have at least even if putting +Perception on any of the powers might feel like overkill...

 

So please just put more perception in epics, thanks! It's really easy to build around having max stealth: the entire class of Stalkers gets it and some control, support, and armor sets also have it, even though PvP stealth being capped low on all non-Stalkers seems like kind of BS. But it's really hard to build around having max perception to match that max stealth.  Thanks! 

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

I still think it's pretty weird you can make a character who's Psi/Psi/Psi or Dark/Dark/Dark and not get a single +Perception booster from any of your powers. Yes there's Rectified Reticle and Tactics, but that won't get you to max perception, even using Tactics, Rectified Reticle, and Warp won't get you to max perception unless you have a primary, secondary, or epic pool power with +Perception.

Dark/Dark/Dark +Perception:

Brute: Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Dark Mastery -> Dark Armor: Cloak of Darkness

Scrapper: Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Dark Mastery -> Dark Armor: Cloak of Darkness

Sentinel: Dark Blast/Dark Armor/Dark Mastery -> Dark Armor: Cloak of Darkness

Stalker: Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Dark Mastery -> Dark Armor: Shadow Dweller

Tanker: Dark Armor/Dark Melee/Dark Mastery -> Dark Armor: Cloak of Darkness

 

Psi/Psi/Psi +Perception:

Brute: Psionic Melee/Psionic Armor/Psionic Mastery -> Psionic Armor: Precognition

Scrapper: Psionic Melee/Psionic Armor/Psionic Mastery -> Psionic Armor: Precognition

Sentinel: Psychic Blast/Psionic Armor/Psionic Mastery -> Psionic Armor: Precognition

Stalker: Psionic Melee/Psionic Armor/Psionic Mastery -> Psionic Armor: Precognition

Tanker: Psionic Armor/Psionic Melee/Psionic Mastery -> Psionic Armor: Precognition

 

Edit: Dumb question: why the need to get to max Perception? It doesn't take much to laugh at mob attempts to blind you or see invisible enemies at a distance well before they ever see you.

 

(Edit again: Also, you can craft a Perception boost at any Empowerment Station (doesn't matter if tier I, II, or III) that boosts your Perception by 100 ft. for 90 minutes.)

 

Edited yesterday at 06:39 AM by Rudra

[Doomguide2005]

Is this a PvP issue for you?  Otherwise as Rudra mentions mob stealth is mostly non-existent if you have any sort of +perception, you don't need anywhere near max perception to nullify pretty much any foe using stealth in this game even redside

[CoeruleumBlue]

19 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Is this a PvP issue for you?  Otherwise as Rudra mentions mob stealth is mostly non-existent if you have any sort of +perception, you don't need anywhere near max perception to nullify pretty much any foe using stealth in this game even redside

 

There are a couple of not often encountered enemies in PvE that can give you trouble, but still, why are PvE and PvP stats not the same in the first place? Breaks my immersion in both cases. Other people have commented on this. I'm willing to work on it personally. It's the same problem with sentinels, I don't want to look at the game like "if we just pretend..." because the game is supposed to take away the pretending for you. Everything should be properly balanced and I'm willing to help with that. 

[Doomguide2005]

Because PvP under PvE rules was an ugly thing ... unless you like Malta stuns you'd have found mez, as an example, far more problematic I suspect.  Balance is in my opinion an odd thing to call what most people mean by it.  A teeter totter with 1 end near the ground and the other end high in the air is perfectly 'balanced' if it doesn't change without external effort.  All things homogenous also sounds boring to me at least.  The only thing I'm sure of is pretty much no one wants it either balanced in the fashion I mentioned or totally homogenous.

[Rudra]

Oh yeah, uhm....

18 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

It's really easy to build around having max stealth:

Wasn't stealth changed to not stack any longer except for a very few specific cases?

[Doomguide2005]

@Rudra@CoeruleumBlue

 

Stealth and Perception - Unofficial Homecoming Wiki

Near the end of the article are notes about the recent changes and a link to the patch notes about the changes.  More or less things like Steamy Mist no longer stack with similar auras but can stack with other forms of stealth such as Grant Invisibility and the empowerment buff as I understand things. 

[Rudra]

40 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

@Rudra@CoeruleumBlue

 

Stealth and Perception - Unofficial Homecoming Wiki

Near the end of the article are notes about the recent changes and a link to the patch notes about the changes.  More or less things like Steamy Mist no longer stack with similar auras but can stack with other forms of stealth such as Grant Invisibility and the empowerment buff as I understand things. 

So yes, stealth powers now only stack with the IO, Grant/Group Invisibility, and maybe Labyrinth of Fog's Font of Malevolence. Thanks.

[Psyonico]

It's actually really hard to get max stealth unless you are either illusion control or arsenal control, both of which have a power that will take you to the stealth cap (200 ft).

 

There are lots of ways to get "effectively invisible" which is just 55 ft of stealth.   At 55 feet, most mobs won't notice you because they have 54 feet of perception.   Some (like rikti drones and rularuu watchers) completely ignore stealth, and even at the 200 ft cap will see you.

 

as for more ways to increase perception,  meh.  You aren't limited in what you can target with current perception unless you get debuffed, which is rare for mobs.  Most powerset combos have access to build up, aim, or something similar, which can take the rectified reticle proc.   That alone will solve all problems unless you are facing multiple stacks of -perception (which is only available in posi 1 if you have multiple toons who can have -perception powers, or AE).  Similarly, all characters have access to use the Warp IO in any of 3 teleport powers, or could take tactics.  Finally, yellow inspirations increase perception. 

 

Really, the only reason I see to make perception increases more common is RP, which is a weird thing to balance powers around. 

[CoeruleumBlue]

5 hours ago, Psyonico said:

It's actually really hard to get max stealth unless you are either illusion control or arsenal control, both of which have a power that will take you to the stealth cap (200 ft).

 

There are lots of ways to get "effectively invisible" which is just 55 ft of stealth.   At 55 feet, most mobs won't notice you because they have 54 feet of perception.   Some (like rikti drones and rularuu watchers) completely ignore stealth, and even at the 200 ft cap will see you.

 

as for more ways to increase perception,  meh.  You aren't limited in what you can target with current perception unless you get debuffed, which is rare for mobs.  Most powerset combos have access to build up, aim, or something similar, which can take the rectified reticle proc.   That alone will solve all problems unless you are facing multiple stacks of -perception (which is only available in posi 1 if you have multiple toons who can have -perception powers, or AE).  Similarly, all characters have access to use the Warp IO in any of 3 teleport powers, or could take tactics.  Finally, yellow inspirations increase perception. 

 

Really, the only reason I see to make perception increases more common is RP, which is a weird thing to balance powers around. 

 

RP, PvP, and the few enemies like Posi or Siren or maybe Arachnos that will make you feel it are not a weird thing to balance powers around. The point of the game is to get immersed in this world of superheroes, supervillains, and super-ambiguous people, or super ambiguously-people, in my opinion. I'm not trying to just either chew out the devs or make people scared of change though. I'd be willing to help work on it so I should probably get to turning in apps already, and I just want to see some things that seem neglected fleshed out, not anything that already exists removed. I don't think I'll post any more threads until I get on that, though I still want to request a couple more cosmetic things in the threads for that. 

[Rudra]

53 minutes ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

 

RP, PvP, and the few enemies like Posi or Siren or maybe Arachnos that will make you feel it are not a weird thing to balance powers around. The point of the game is to get immersed in this world of superheroes, supervillains, and super-ambiguous people, or super ambiguously-people, in my opinion. I'm not trying to just either chew out the devs or make people scared of change though. I'd be willing to help work on it so I should probably get to turning in apps already, and I just want to see some things that seem neglected fleshed out, not anything that already exists removed. I don't think I'll post any more threads until I get on that, though I still want to request a couple more cosmetic things in the threads for that. 

RP is not something to balance powers around. I've seen players whose RP was absolutely nothing could affect them and absolutely nothing could resist them. That isn't balanced.

 

PvP has its own balance going on. Our powers work differently in PvP than in PvE.

 

Positron does not debuff anyone's Perception, so what are you talking about?

 

Who is Siren?

 

Arachnos Night Widows and Tarantula Queens/Mistresses love their smoke bombs, no doubt, but Tactics has always been enough for me to laugh their smoke bombs off.

[CoeruleumBlue]

54 minutes ago, Rudra said:

RP is not something to balance powers around. I've seen players whose RP was absolutely nothing could affect them and absolutely nothing could resist them. That isn't balanced.

 

PvP has its own balance going on. Our powers work differently in PvP than in PvE.

 

Positron does not debuff anyone's Perception, so what are you talking about?

 

Who is Siren?

 

Arachnos Night Widows and Tarantula Queens/Mistresses love their smoke bombs, no doubt, but Tactics has always been enough for me to laugh their smoke bombs off.

 

Yes, and if we had powers balanced properly no one would be able to PvP like that anymore except ten-year-olds whose parents walked away, because people could just PvP and say who's stronger if they had to, or do competitive PvE content. The result of having powers that are just wonky is people can make up whatever they want. The game should make sense so people can't just make up whatever they want. I like playing actual story content to refresh my brain and I think PvE, PvP, and RP should ideally all be the same. It's good PvP and PvE stats aren't the same I'm sure since that has broken other games, but still, there's way too much stuff that doesn't seem like it makes any sense at all when they split off PvP and PvE, like letting Stalkers have a higher stealth cap in PvP even though other classes can get the same stealth in PvE, and putting perception only on totally random things like on an ice cage but not on the psionic or dark version of the same power even though in regular non-epic sets psionic and dark usually have perception and stealth abilities more than ice. Lots of things in this gae seem somewhat buggy to me though I'd be willing to help fix them, I'm not here to be a Karen talking to the manager, so I should just go offer to do that. 

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

 

Yes, and if we had powers balanced properly no one would be able to PvP like that anymore except ten-year-olds whose parents walked away, because people could just PvP and say who's stronger if they had to, or do competitive PvE content. The result of having powers that are just wonky is people can make up whatever they want. The game should make sense so people can't just make up whatever they want. I like playing actual story content to refresh my brain and I think PvE, PvP, and RP should ideally all be the same. It's good PvP and PvE stats aren't the same I'm sure since that has broken other games, but still, there's way too much stuff that doesn't seem like it makes any sense at all when they split off PvP and PvE, like letting Stalkers have a higher stealth cap in PvP even though other classes can get the same stealth in PvE, and putting perception only on totally random things like on an ice cage but not on the psionic or dark version of the same power even though in regular non-epic sets psionic and dark usually have perception and stealth abilities more than ice. Lots of things in this gae seem somewhat buggy to me though I'd be willing to help fix them, I'm not here to be a Karen talking to the manager, so I should just go offer to do that. 

A video game needs to be balanced for how it is played. RP has no role in that. If RP is a consideration, it is a consideration of the player, not the game, and is based on how the player conceives of his/her/their character and that character's interactions with the game world and other players. (Edit: Yes, this is a MMORPG, but given the extremely wide range of how people RP, you can't expect anyone to design RP into the game. The RP is done by the players.) And that has to be done within the framework the game world provides if there is a game mechanic component to it. Let's use Perception as an example. A player makes a Blaster and declares the character has super enhanced vision, able to see targets through their attempts to sneak and at longer than normal ranges. That player can either build for that enhanced Perception by taking Tactics or by slotting enhancements that grant extra Perception on a constant basis, or that player can simply say his/her/their character has it and not take Tactics or slot any enhancements to boost Perception. In the latter case, that player still has the option of using a SG empowerment station to boost his/her/their character's Perception for 90 minutes at a time to grant said character that ability, or that player can stock yellow inspirations to counter enemy stealth and attempts to blind the character, and merge new inspiration drops into more yellows for a "constant" stream of increased Perception. Outside of combat, that character can have all the Perception in the world when roleplaying with other players and not a single person is likely to care if that character actually does or not.

 

PvP combat was changed because it used to be Rock-Paper-Scissors. A Controller or Dominator could permanently lock down Blasters, Corruptors, and Defenders who never got to do anything except die while being completely unable to do anything with a Brute, Scrapper, Stalker, or Tanker other than run away or die. Melees couldn't do anything to ranged characters because those ranged characters were always out of reach. And so on and so forth. So player powers were changed to have a PvE and PvP version so that a semblance of balance and competition had a chance to exist in PvP. (Note that mobs in PvP zones still follow PvE rules with their powers. Mobs cannot engage in PvP.)

 

Stalkers start with the highest stealth radius of all AT stealth powers except for two specific powers Controllers get access to if they select the correct primary. That's PvE. Stealth powers do not stack stealth radius any more. (Except for the procs and Grant/Team Invisibility.) And stealth is a Stalker trademark, so I wholly understand why they would get the higher cap. So your complaint about Stalkers getting better stealth rings hollow to me.

 

What ice cage are you talking about?

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Rudra
Edited again to correct "not" to "it".

[golstat2003]

22 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

 

There are a couple of not often encountered enemies in PvE that can give you trouble, but still, why are PvE and PvP stats not the same in the first place? Breaks my immersion in both cases. Other people have commented on this. I'm willing to work on it personally. It's the same problem with sentinels, I don't want to look at the game like "if we just pretend..." because the game is supposed to take away the pretending for you. Everything should be properly balanced and I'm willing to help with that. 

 

Do you mean you're willing to apply to be Dev and if accepted pull up their shirt sleeves and dig into the code on your time?

 

Cause other than that there's nothing you or any of us can do to properly balance this game with its 20 year old mess of sphagetti code.