page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Kinetic Melee Adjustments

[The Curator]

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Kinetic Melee

• All Powers
  • -Damage debuffs now effect all damage types (it did not decrease Toxic or Psychic damage)
  • -Damage debuffs are normalized to scale 0.7 for all ATs and powers except for Burst
  • Burst -Damage debuff is scale 1.2
  • -Damage durations increased:
    • Quick Strike, Repulsing Torrent - 6s
    • Body Blow - 8s
    • Smashing Blow, Focused Burst - 10s
    • Concentrated Strike - 12s
    • Burst - 15s
  • -Damage debuffs now show -Damage fx
  • KB values decreased by 50% (ex: Scale 0.67kb -> 0.4467kb)
  • Swapped damage type ratio so Energy is higher and Smashing lower to match En defense type
  • fixed Stalker powers not having the same damage scale ratio of Sm/En damage as other ATs
  • fixed Brute Fiery Embrace damage in Concentrated Strike
• Power Siphon
  • Cast time lowered from 1.93s to 1.17s
  • Recharge lowered from 120s to 90s
  • ToHit and Power Siphon Mode duration lowered from 20s to 15s
  • Stack duration increased from 10s to 15s
  • Power now grants one stack of Siphon at activation
  • Each stack now grants +10% damage (down from +25%), now also increases Toxic and Psychic damage
  • Base powers strength now goes up by +10% per owned stack
  • This increases all the base stats of the power before any other boosts
    • This includes Damage, Mez Duration, Debuffs, and Knockback scale of Kinetic Melee powers
  • This multiplies against the buffed base damage
    • For example, at 5 stacks a 100 damage attack becomes 150 and then is boosted by +50% to 225
• Repulsing Torrent
  • Range decreased from 40ft to 30ft, lowering it's area factor
  • Total damage scale increased from scale 1.1 to 1.29
  • Knockback scale lowered from 3 to 1
  • Now inflicts scale 0.7 -Dam debuff for 6s
  • Now grants a Power Siphon Stack
• Focused Burst
  • Is now able to chain on hit to up to 4 extra targets, richocheting kinetic energy!
  • Tankers can hit up to 10 total targets due to Overcap like with 5-target cones
  • The 1st target takes full damage, with each extra target taking 25% less up to a minimum of 25%
• Burst
  • Cast time lowered from 2.67 to 2.53
  • Now deals damage over time during the start of animation, then a stronger final hit
  • Total damage scale unchanged
  • [Stalkers] Stealth crit rate lowered to 50%
• Concentrated Strike
  • Now can grant 2 stacks of Siphon, one at the start as you begin to drain the target and one at the final hit
  • Now deals 1/3 of it's damage over time during the start of the animation
  • Total damage scale unchanged
  • Stun chance increased from 60% to 100%
  • Cast time lowered from 2.83 to 2.67
  • [Stalkers/Scrappers] Now deals 3 scale 1.1867 ticks on crit, fully matching the total base damage over time
  • [Stalkers] No longer recharges Build Up on crit
  • [Scrappers] No longer has a chance to recharge Power Siphon

[Mezmera]

Tried this on a KM/Psi stalker.  The changes feel good. 

 

You can still feel the length of the animations but now you're doing dot over that animations cycle plus Concentrated Strike now crits instead of a redundant BU recharge for stalkers which is awesome.  Burst feels alright, the one nerf of the whole KM was to bring Burst's crit rate down which you can feel the difference but its not terrible and to get dot on that and CS with crits its a fine trade.  Plus stalker AS scales got raised a bit more which gives more weight to KM's AS which is the best in its class.  

 

I hadn't tested the range powers nor on any other AT.  Objectively Energy Melee on stalkers is in a tier of its own and this doesn't feel like it can't give it a run for its money.  It feels like Energy Melee-lite with better aoe.  

[SableShrike]

Cannot wait, personally.  Got my Level 2 SR/KM Tanker all set for this to drop.

 

Per the changes on Tanks: it’s good, really good.

 

Focused Burst can chain to 10 targets, and Repulsing Torrent hits hard while still sweeping a full spawn.

 

Plus Concentrated Strike is no longer mathematically worse than the T3 Smashing Blow.

 

Power Siphon and the -Damage are more effective, too.

 

Then you’ve got the damage switch, making it primarily an Energy damage set.

 

Can. Not. Wait.

[BrandX]

Okay, curious on Focus Burst.  It's been turned into a multi target blast.  Is there a reason it's not taking Ranged AOE sets instead of Ranged sets?

[ExeErdna]

I'm fine with these changes EXCEPT on Power Siphon either lower the duration or damage not both. Since it seems not very impactful. I've ran through a +4/8 Malta and Thorns popping it really didn't feel like there were anything different. Having it run for 20sec with 25% stacks wouldn't be too OP since the set is still considered "slow". 

[ExeErdna]

As I'm playing with the changes and moving into testing it on Blackwing.

Repulsing Torrent needs an angle buff 45 isn't enough when you get mobbed, you use that and it only hits one.

Focused Burst and Burst are fine, amazing even.

Power Siphon needs the original damage and time since playing on a Brute at +4/8. It really feels like it's not doing anything. Like, sure, having that 125% on Positron may be spicy. Yet late and end game with anything beyond +3 it needs the pepper. Even the ToHit aspect may need a slight buff.

Concentrated Strike SHOULD be working more like Burst. Where the start-up does AOE damage, yet the last hit simply hits the one you're targeting. It's too slow and too low ST damage to be using even if you're trying to focus down problematic enemies and Blackwing has a lot you need to focus before things get out of control. So it either needs to hit harder ST or it needs Burst-like AOE. Personally, both because with animation time speeding it up won't help it needs to simply do more.

 

[Myrmidon]

Ok, you can patch this change to live yesterday.😀

[Signalrunner]

After running some missions on a lvl 50 KM scrapper, I feel that the cooldown on Focused Burst is too low. Everything else is operating smoothly.

 

Here are my thoughts:

• With global recharge around 160% and ~20% rech slotted in Focused Burst, it comes back up right after one Smashing Blow.
• There's not much value in it coming back up that quickly when there are other valuable attacks like Burst or Concentrated Strike to fire off in between.
• The current cooldown contributes to an already busy feeling in the set between having to reposition with Repulsing Torrent and refresh Power Siphon more often.
• I think there's room for a tradeoff for higher damage and longer base CD, since it's the weakest single target attack (before counting the chain) in the set.

 

[CaffieneNirvana]

Would it be too much to ask if Power Siphon stacks also refreshed per hit? Especially given the snipped duration, which I feel was unnecessary given attack animation length. (Which I, crazy idiot that I am, am perfectly fine with as-is, unlike some.) Or would concessions have to be further made to the power in order to facilitate that?

[Plutoria]

Waaay back did heavy testing on KM/EA for brute, Stalker and Scrapper. Not even updating using optimized builds aimed for the new changes in this patch, just the ones made from almost a year ago, with the new changes KM feels great on all 3 using dated builds. All builds were designed around high recharge and to survive (via Energy Aura) and hit ( power siphon +tohit) in hardmode content. The scrapper in particular built keeping power siphon with extremely high uptime. The brute build had some slight variation using repulsing torrent and more procs and the scrapper/stalker did not use repulsing and instead more raw damage to maximize crit scaling. I feel like I can't speak much on repulsing torrent because the welcomed changes between burst and focused burst, having the extra form of cone/aoe didn't seem required.  It wasn't really required previously either because KM was pretty slow on the AoE as it was and the brute really just used it as extra range flavor for soft CC and more recharge procing in lower level content. But Burst and Focused burst feel good. Other more friendly AoE builds I use like TW still perform above and beyond better in that department which it should, but at least KM doesn't feel like a exclusively single target slog now vs 54 foes (still enjoyed KM set regardless). So on a aggressively high recharge build, I can cycle between burst and focused burst smoothly. Reading the DoT component on burst I was apprehensive initially but I actually like how it ended up performing. Aoe improvement aside the damage scaling and redistribution of smashing/energy felt and performed better too. I personally always enjoyed KM for the theme regardless of how it performed vs other better sets, so any improvements are welcomed ones. But it does feel less painful using it now from a gameplay perspective. Spreadsheet number crunching pylon/trapdoor times ect, can't speak on that aspect. On the topic of single target, taking into context using a higher recharge build where all attacks are available on demand, maybe reduce concentrated strike to match total focus animation time of roughly 2.53 if possible? Anything less than the 2.83 is a win already and having it at 2.67 is fantastic alone but going with a body blow /smashing blow /AS ( stalker only)/ focused burst or burst  and repeat is a smoother chain and currently still does short work on 54 targets via scrapper/stalker with the added crit hits. CS still hits nicely but the animation time is still uncomfortable and doesn't give that same rewarding feeling of a chunky hit like total focus does after the long animation anticipation. But even as is, it is still a great improvement from where it was.

[Jacke]

When I redid my KM/Ninjitsu Scrapper build back in August, I dropped Concentrated Strike for Cross Punch, because CP had better DPA, cost less Endurance, and was a Melee Cone attack to boot.

 

Not sure about the impacts of the Kinetic Melee and Ninjitsu changes, as the Toon was low Level.  I'd previously ran it up to around L22, but for other reasons, I rerolled it and it's under L10.

 

I've got more Ninjitsu Toons, with this one 2 Scrappers, 1 Stalker, and 1 Sentinel.  I haven't had time to test these and likely won't before however they are rolled out, so I depend on the good Players I know bringing up issues.

 

As for my Toons, I'll wait for the Pane to come out, then I'll see what builds I can make from what's there.

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:38 AM by Jacke

[Championess]

10 hours ago, Jacke said:

When I redid my KM/Ninjitsu Scrapper build back in August, I dropped Concentrated Strike for Cross Punch, because CP had better DPA, cost less Endurance, and was a Melee Cone attack to boot.

 

Not sure about the impacts of the Kinetic Melee and Ninjitsu changes, as the Toon was low Level.  I'd previously ran it up to around L22, but for other reasons, I rerolled it and it's under L10.

 

I've got more Ninjitsu Toons, with this one 2 Scrappers, 1 Stalker, and 1 Sentinel.  I haven't had time to test these and likely won't before however they are rolled out, so I depend on the good Players I know bringing up issues.

 

As for my Toons, I'll wait for the Pane to come out, then I'll see what builds I can make from what's there.

 

 

 

Concentrated Strike now getting the ability to crit is fantastic.  It should be more valuable now than Cross Punch.

 

For stalkers KM feels like a finished product.  If you can get good at long form AS'ing and Placating this'll be a top tier set for those that want something more skill rewarding than Energy Melee.

 

On all the other ATs I do think those Siphon stacks could last 5s longer or so.  Otherwise yeah KM is looking great.

[aethereal]

Trying to make sure that I understand new Power Siphon.  Does it work like this?

 

100 base damage power, let's say 100% base damage enhancement (ED cap + a few minor set bonuses, let's say).  So 200 damage materializes normally out of Power Siphon mode.

 

So 1 stack of Power Siphon basically increases the base damage of the power to 110?  And then adds 10% to damage enhancement, so you get a total of 110 * 2.1 = 231 damage?

 

And 5 stacks of Power Siphon increases base damage of the power to 150, and then adds 50% to damage enhancement for a total of 150 * 2.5 = 375?

 

In comparison to the old version in which:

 

1 stack of Power Siphon = 100 * (2.25) = 225

 

5 stacks of Power Siphon = 100 * (3.25) = 325

 

Is that correct?

[aethereal]

Also: has it always been the case that Repulsing Torrent only does an FX on the person targeted, and everyone else hit by it gets ragdolled backwards with no FX?  That feels weird.

[BrandX]

Other than the Stacks not lasting long enough, feels good.  🙂

[aethereal]

Okay, so I've been testing a Kin Melee/SR Scrapper with the following methodology:

 

After a short intro to warm myself up, I do one radio mission (whichever is the top one) and then increase my levels by 5, then do another one.  At level 20, I increased my notoriety to +0/x3, and at level 25, to +0/x4.  I did auto-enhance with SOs until level 20, and then did auto-enhance with Sets at level 25.  I've chosen entirely powers from my primary/secondary as of level 25, which is where I am now.

 

I chose Practiced Brawler and am skipping Confront.  Otherwise getting everything.

 

Basic impressions:

 

Kin Melee feels pretty powerful when Power Siphon is up, somewhat weak when it's not.  I feel like aggressively working on recharge for Power Siphon is the key to this set.

 

I appreciate the tools here: having the knockdowns and the ranged attacks and stuns are all nice.

 

Having the newly large PBAoE and the large cone in Repulsing Torrent makes AoE feel pretty solid.

 

I tried out Repulsing Torrent's knockback, but honestly it still feels bad to have knockback, I think for level 30+ I'll do a KB>KD enhancement there.  I want to like knockback, but as one of your two major AoE attacks it's just counter productive -- you don't want to spread out the group by knocking half of them back and so they aren't there to be hit by Burst.

 

My level 20 mission was against Thorns, and it went pretty well, despite things like "drawing aggro from two groups of oops-all-ghosts," which is ordinarily a nightmare.  Power Siphon was really helpful against the to-hit debuffs of the ghosts.  I did have to run away a few times, but died only once early, which I largely attribute to figuring out the character.

 

My level 25 mission was against Freaks, and it was notably pretty nice.  Having Repulsing Torrent and Focused Burst made Super Stunners very mildly less annoying than usual.  Having the energy damage against Tanks was nice, they felt less annoyingly tanky than usual (but maybe I just have solo bosses turned off?  So that might be that -- it's an oversight, will turn on).  The knockdowns and stuns make it less likely that Freaks do their self-heal successfully.  No deaths, had to run away once or twice, mostly due to endurance.

Edited 7 hours ago by aethereal

[Erratic1]

12 minutes ago, aethereal said:

I tried out Repulsing Torrent's knockback, but honestly it still feels bad to have knockback, I think for level 30+ I'll do a KB>KD enhancement there.  I want to like knockback, but as one of your two major AoE attacks it's just counter productive -- you don't want to spread out the group by knocking half of them back and so they aren't there to be hit by Burst.

 

Use a KB->KD IO in it. Makes it quite useful.

[aethereal]

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Use a KB->KD IO in it. Makes it quite useful.

 

I, uh, literally said I was going to in the text you quoted.  I just wanted to try it out without first, give it a try in its natural state in the spirit of experiencing the set.

[Erratic1]

Just now, aethereal said:

 

I, uh, literally said I was going to in the text you quoted.  I just wanted to try it out without first, give it a try in its natural state in the spirit of experiencing the set.

 

Without the converter it is, as you noted, not a great match. I have a character from some years back where I had both Repulsing and Energy Torrent setup to knock foes down. Eventually KM's issues caused me to drop the character.

 

I should be thrilled that the set is getting addressed, but I've reached the point where the animations bother me. 

[aethereal]

I know that this is way too late for suggestions, but just thought I'd throw out that Kinetic Melee seems like a natural set to have some of the wacky vectored knocks that are now possible.  It is after all a set about controlling motion.  Repulsing Torrent is honestly cool as knockback, I liked the visuals and everything, but it's just not synergistic.  A pull-style knock might be a fun way to show theme without being frustrating for characters, or some knockup.

 

Honestly, this probably wouldn't work, but what about an attack that knocked people back and then knocked them forward into you (so that they ended up in roughly the same place they started)?

Edited 6 hours ago by aethereal

[Player-1]

22 hours ago, aethereal said:

Trying to make sure that I understand new Power Siphon.  Does it work like this?

 

100 base damage power, let's say 100% base damage enhancement (ED cap + a few minor set bonuses, let's say).  So 200 damage materializes normally out of Power Siphon mode.

 

So 1 stack of Power Siphon basically increases the base damage of the power to 110?  And then adds 10% to damage enhancement, so you get a total of 110 * 2.1 = 231 damage?

 

And 5 stacks of Power Siphon increases base damage of the power to 150, and then adds 50% to damage enhancement for a total of 150 * 2.5 = 375?

 

In comparison to the old version in which:

 

1 stack of Power Siphon = 100 * (2.25) = 225

 

5 stacks of Power Siphon = 100 * (3.25) = 325

 

Is that correct?

 

Correct. The Power Siphon stacks now improve the base stats of the KM powers before enhancement or other boosts (meaning not only the damage, but stun duration, damage debuff, and knock which is accounted for with the change to their base value).

[ExeErdna]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

I know that this is way too late for suggestions, but just thought I'd throw out that Kinetic Melee seems like a natural set to have some of the wacky vectored knocks that are now possible.  It is after all a set about controlling motion.  Repulsing Torrent is honestly cool as knockback, I liked the visuals and everything, but it's just not synergistic.  A pull-style knock might be a fun way to show theme without being frustrating for characters, or some knockup.

 

Honestly, this probably wouldn't work, but what about an attack that knocked people back and then knocked them forward into you (so that they ended up in roughly the same place they started)?

I mean this would make sense on Burst and Con Strike. If CS is made to work as I suggested above.

===

From my testing KM is still my go to on Stalkers because of theme and has a better ST flow. Yet, for everybody else Repulsing Torrent needs to be 90 or 120 degrees or else it isn't really worth taking. As I said Burst and Focused Burst are amazing. Comparing those two with RT, RT needs something so it doesn't end up as the 2nd or 3rd skip choice in the set.