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Kruunch

Kruunch's Elec/Shield Build

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13 hours ago, Zer0 Hour said:

Is there any difference between zapp and moonbeam?

I chose Zapp because it fit thematically.

 

They both do the same damage, but Moonbeam's secondary effect is better (-toHit (MB) vs. -end (Zapp)). However realistically they're both equivalent.

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Moonbeam deals more Damage per activation (Hide, autocrit synergy) and has a longer cooldown (chance for proc relevant). Both do matter if you look at the otherwise weak Single Target options of elec. If theme is not an issue, i would recommend Moonbeam over Zapp.

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15 hours ago, Croax said:

Moonbeam deals more Damage per activation (Hide, autocrit synergy) and has a longer cooldown (chance for proc relevant). Both do matter if you look at the otherwise weak Single Target options of elec. If theme is not an issue, i would recommend Moonbeam over Zapp.

This is incorrect. The damage difference is nominal at best (~15 points per activation ... maybe?), they both share autocritting out of Hide, and they share identical cooldowns. As I stipulated earlier, the secondary effect of Moonbeam is (imo) better but not a difference maker.

 

You will not beat a boss with Moonbeam over Zapp (or vice versa), nor will you end any fight faster using one over the other, hence functionally equivalent.

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The Snipes have the opportunity to slot:

Apocalypse: Chance of Damage (Negative)

Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage (Toxic)

Sting of the Manticore: Chance of Damage (Toxic)

 

Moonbeam can also slot:

Cloud Senses: Chance for Nagative Damage

 

That makes Moonbeam the better attack. It not only does ~ 100 Damage more, you can slot 4 procs and 2 Acc/Dam for PvP. Even for PvE Moonbeam simply deals more Damage if you consider the new instant snipe rules.

 

You are right, that the cooldown is the same. i had that wrong. But the unenhanced version of both powers have very different values. Since every Damage is coming up from here, i would take Moonbeam over Zapp. Sure if it does not fit the theme, but that is on a totaly different page.

 

Edited by Croax
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5 hours ago, Croax said:

Sniper.png.b66df454f3ca746f30da39ee8686265c.png

 

The Snipes have the opportunity to slot:

Apocalypse: Chance of Damage (Negative)

Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage (Toxic)

Sting of the Manticore: Chance of Damage (Toxic)

 

Moonbeam can also slot:

Cloud Senses: Chance for Nagative Damage

 

That makes Moonbeam the better attack. It not only does ~ 100 Damage more, you can slot 4 procs and 2 Acc/Dam for PvP. Even for PvE Moonbeam simply deals more Damage if you consider the new instant snipe rules.

 

You are right, that the cooldown is the same. i had that wrong. But the unenhanced version of both powers have very different values. Since every Damage is coming up from here, i would take Moonbeam over Zapp. Sure if it does not fit the theme, but that is on a totaly different page.

 

That damage is incorrect. Stop playing COH via Pines/Mids.

 

Give it a try in game.

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20 hours ago, Kruunch said:

Give it a try in game.

I did. And you are right. I was wrong. Here are the numbers from the beta server:

 

You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 366.37 points of Negative Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 183.18 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 366.37 points of Negative Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 183.18 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 366.37 points of Negative Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 183.18 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 366.37 points of Negative Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 183.18 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 366.37 points of Negative Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 183.18 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].

You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 180.09 points of Negative Energy damage.
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 180.09 points of Negative Energy damage.
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 180.09 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 180.09 points of Negative Energy damage.
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 180.09 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 180.09 points of Negative Energy damage.
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Moonbeam for 180.09 points of Negative Energy damage [CRITICAL].

 

You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 366.37 points of Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 183.18 points of Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 366.37 points of Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 183.18 points of Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 366.37 points of Energy damage [SNIPER SHOT].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 183.18 points of Energy damage [CRITICAL].

You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 180.09 points of Energy damage.
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 180.09 points of Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 180.09 points of Energy damage.
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 180.09 points of Energy damage [CRITICAL].
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 180.09 points of Energy damage.
You hit Rikti Pylon with your Zapp for 180.09 points of Energy damage [CRITICAL].

 

So I reached out to the Stalker discord and there was a friendly member who showed me this:

 

 

Important part: Mu Mastery Epic Pool: Zap now uses Melee Damage Modifiers

 

So with the recent sniper changes zapp and Moonbeam are now exact same damage. I was looking at Ball Lightning for a long time now, but didn't want to trade in the better snipe. now i will get back to figure out a build with zap and ball lightning. 

 

This discussion was very helpful for me.

Edited by Croax
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No problem. Just an FYI the builds and advice I post are from in-game experience. That doesn't always jibe with conventional wisdom but there you go.

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I've been running my Electric/Invuln Stalker at 50 for a bit now and I'm realizing that I'm not using Thunderstrike as much as I'd thought I would.  The animation is just brutally long and the AoE is ridiculously small.  Generously, I'm hitting 2 targets per activation, on average, and that's if the targets not dead from a teammate before I land the hit.  Its DPA is pretty terrible and for single targets, I would be better off launching any two other attacks in my arsenal than TS.  I have a ton of recharge bonuses so I don't need it to fill out my chain.

 

So, fellow electric stalkers, am I wrong to think it might be worth dropping TS?  I'm not fully decided on what I'd take instead, but I could grab Rune of Prot or an extra epic power.  

 

Whats the current consensus on TS?

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I left it out of my elec/shield build when i switched to stalker from scrapper. Don't miss it in the least. I always found it to be really terrible but took it anyway because it's an AOE. Much happier without it.

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7 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

I've been running my Electric/Invuln Stalker at 50 for a bit now and I'm realizing that I'm not using Thunderstrike as much as I'd thought I would.  The animation is just brutally long and the AoE is ridiculously small.  Generously, I'm hitting 2 targets per activation, on average, and that's if the targets not dead from a teammate before I land the hit.  Its DPA is pretty terrible and for single targets, I would be better off launching any two other attacks in my arsenal than TS.  I have a ton of recharge bonuses so I don't need it to fill out my chain.

 

So, fellow electric stalkers, am I wrong to think it might be worth dropping TS?  I'm not fully decided on what I'd take instead, but I could grab Rune of Prot or an extra epic power.  

 

Whats the current consensus on TS?

You should definitely not use it for single target attacks (unless you love the animation lol).

 

Thunder Strike is listed as a targeted AOE (or PBAOE depending the source you're looking at) but in actuality it behaves like a 180 degree cone (i.e. it doesn't hit enemies behind you), so positioning is something you need to keep in mind when using it.

 

The way I use Thunder Strike is after coming out of my telenukes, so Thunder Strike benefits from still being in Hidden and has a 50% chance to critical per target hit. That's your bang for the buck with this power.

 

Yes the activation time is annoyingly long ... my regular group likes to make a meta game out of it; can we kill all the mob before Kruunch's TS lands 😄

 

I have this issue with Jacob's Ladder and I usually skip it (and like T3 attacks). I wouldn't recommend replacing TS though ... what would you replace it with?

Edited by Kruunch
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3 minutes ago, Kruunch said:

You should definitely not use it for single target attacks (unless you love the animation lol).

 

Thunder Strike is listed as a targeted AOE (or PBAOE depending the source you're looking at) but in actuality it behaves like a 180 degree cone (i.e. it doesn't hit enemies behind you), so positioning is something you need to keep in mind when using it.

 

The way I use Thunder Strike is after coming out of my telenukes, so Thunder Strike benefits from still being in Hidden and has a 50% chance to critical per target hit. That's your bang for the buck with this power.

 

Yes the activation time is annoyingly long ... my regular group likes to make a meta game out of it; can we kill all the mob before Kruunch's TS lands 😄

 

I have this issue with Jacob's Ladder and I usually skip it (and like T3 attacks). I wouldn't recommend replacing TS though ... what would you replace it with?

My current "after telenuke crit" is Ball Lightning which usually hits a solid majority of a spawn, WAY more than using TS coming out of LR.  

 

More often than not, BU (with Gaussians) > LR (with purple proc) > BL (with Posi's proc) will wipe out all minions in range.  Therefore, I'm down to only Lts, bosses and minions that are at the fringes of the spawn after the alpha strike.  From there, TS basically has no use, because the likelihood that two remaining targets are basically spooning in front of me is usually zero.  So, therefore, I'm down to single targeting after the alpha and, as you said, TS is pretty crap there.  

 

You don't seem to run Fireball or BL, so I can see how TS would be your best followup, but for me, I'd rather hit about 8 targets with BL than 2-3 targets with TS. 12 DS total damage vs 9 DS total damage.  

 

I'd have to fiddle around a bit, but I'm considering replacing it with Mu Bolts, if only to grab 3.75% e/n defense, which my build is lacking a bit.  

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37 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

My current "after telenuke crit" is Ball Lightning which usually hits a solid majority of a spawn, WAY more than using TS coming out of LR.  

 

More often than not, BU (with Gaussians) > LR (with purple proc) > BL (with Posi's proc) will wipe out all minions in range.  Therefore, I'm down to only Lts, bosses and minions that are at the fringes of the spawn after the alpha strike.  From there, TS basically has no use, because the likelihood that two remaining targets are basically spooning in front of me is usually zero.  So, therefore, I'm down to single targeting after the alpha and, as you said, TS is pretty crap there.  

 

You don't seem to run Fireball or BL, so I can see how TS would be your best followup, but for me, I'd rather hit about 8 targets with BL than 2-3 targets with TS. 12 DS total damage vs 9 DS total damage.  

 

I'd have to fiddle around a bit, but I'm considering replacing it with Mu Bolts, if only to grab 3.75% e/n defense, which my build is lacking a bit.  

Well if TS just isn't your cup of tea, then yeah definitely spec out of it. Nothing worse than feeling stuck with something you don't like using.

 

However if you're interested in trying to get TS to work a little better then try this:

 

TS definitely can hit more targets than that, so if you're only hitting 2-3 targets, you need to review your positioning. Typically after telenukes I'll take a step or two back so most of the mobs are in front of me and then TS (if you're like me you probably telenuke directly into the middle of the pack). I average saturation on TS (which is around 5 or 8 or so). 

 

TS has the soft control of knocking down opponents which is one of the really good synergies about the Elec/SD build. It also does twice the damage of BL (or FB). I use Chain Induction, Havok Punch and Zapp to clean up individual stragglers.

 

P.S. You should be looking for positional defense, not typed defense on an SD build (FYI).

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20 minutes ago, Kruunch said:

Well if TS just isn't your cup of tea, then yeah definitely spec out of it. Nothing worse than feeling stuck with something you don't like using.

 

However if you're interested in trying to get TS to work a little better then try this:

 

TS definitely can hit more targets than that, so if you're only hitting 2-3 targets, you need to review your positioning. Typically after telenukes I'll take a step or two back so most of the mobs are in front of me and then TS (if you're like me you probably telenuke directly into the middle of the pack). I average saturation on TS (which is around 5 or 8 or so). 

 

TS has the soft control of knocking down opponents which is one of the really good synergies about the Elec/SD build. It also does twice the damage of BL (or FB). I use Chain Induction, Havok Punch and Zapp to clean up individual stragglers.

 

P.S. You should be looking for positional defense, not typed defense on an SD build (FYI).

Regarding your positioning comment, I don't actually believe you're correct about the mechanics of TS.  It is a targeted AoE and it can hit people behind you, as long as the secondary target(s) is/are within a 7 foot radius sphere of the primary target.  I very often have targets hit behind me with TS, specifically because I launch LR using the "tp to target" bind, so I'm right up in my LR targets face.  

 

Maybe you just have better luck than me on it, but without herding, I just don't get that many targets in that 7 foot radius sphere.  I'm going to give it some practice this week on some Freak farms to see if I can find a trick to it.

 

Regarding damage, true it does more than BL (110 vs 64) but if I'm hitting double the targets, then BL definitely comes out ahead.  

 

RE: positional vs elemental, sorry for the confusion, but I run Invuln.  I posted here about TS because I thought it would make sense instead of making a new thread.  Respect to my shielded brothers, but us Invulnerability face tankers rely on elemental def.   I'm currently at ~40% def to s/l/f/c, but e/n is only at 37% so it could use a boost so that Barrier gets them all to 45+%.  

 

EDIT:  I just had a thought...what if the difference here is Invuln vs Shield?  Stalker invuln has no "taunt aura" while shield has AAO.  You may have a leg up on clustering enemies because of it, while invuln doesn't have anything with a similar effect.  That could explain why I'm having less luck hitting big packs with TS (because they're not higging me as much).

Edited by Omega-202

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2 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Regarding your positioning comment, I don't actually believe you're correct about the mechanics of TS.  It is a targeted AoE and it can hit people behind you, as long as the secondary target(s) is/are within a 7 foot radius sphere of the primary target.  I very often have targets hit behind me with TS, specifically because I launch LR using the "tp to target" bind, so I'm right up in my LR targets face.  

 

Maybe you just have better luck than me on it, but without herding, I just don't get that many targets in that 7 foot radius sphere.  I'm going to give it some practice this week on some Freak farms to see if I can find a trick to it.

 

Regarding damage, true it does more than BL (110 vs 64) but if I'm hitting double the targets, then BL definitely comes out ahead.  

Ah we're talking apples and oranges then as far as SD vs Inv goes but some of the logic still applies; Knockdown as a soft control protects not just you, but also your group.

 

Now Invulnerability has more staying power against larger packs than SD does (statistically speaking) so having more mobs up but whittling greater numbers of mobs down at the same time (TS vs. BL damage and number of mobs wise) is viable for Invulnerability, but you want to cut down the number of mobs quick with a defense based set (less statistics gives RNG less chances to turn against you).

 

Regarding the amount of mobs you're dealing with ... I generally go for agro saturation (16 mobs). If you're not doing that, then yes smaller packs will yield smaller results for TS. I like getting the bang for my buck 😉

 

As far as positioning, play around with it. I think once you're paying strict attention you'll realize more times than not, TS is working as I've outlined.

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19 minutes ago, Kruunch said:

Here's a vieo illustrating what I'm talking about both positioning and number of mobs wise (sorry for the poor editing quality) ....

Yeah, in a AE farm, I think hitting those numbers obviously makes sense.  My issue is replicating that in a standard +4/8 TF environment.  

 

I plan on taking a spin through a few AE farm runs as well as Council Earth to see if I can make it work.  

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25 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Yeah, in a AE farm, I think hitting those numbers obviously makes sense.  My issue is replicating that in a standard +4/8 TF environment.  

 

I plan on taking a spin through a few AE farm runs as well as Council Earth to see if I can make it work.  

The AE farm thing was just a handy way to show you a bunch of mobs. In a real +8/+4, getting packs that big or bigger is easy. Hell just corner pull, and you can get all the gaggle you want.

 

The point was to show you that 1) Thunder Strike hits more then 2-3 mobs (fairly easily) and 2) that unfortunately TS acts more like a 180 degree cone (notice the guys on my butt not getting hit). 

 

Having said that, when used with that in mind, it's worth its activation time (for me).

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kruunch said:

Yes the activation time is annoyingly long ... my regular group likes to make a meta game out of it; can we kill all the mob before Kruunch's TS lands 😄

My Energy/Regen feels this pain.

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This looked like as good a place as any to ask this.  Does anyone know what the target cap on Lightning Rod is?  The wayback link I found to Elec/ has a dead link to the pseudopet, so I couldn't find it.

 

Is it 10 like most PBAoEs?  Or is it more since it is larger than normal with such a long recharge?

 

Thanks!

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Thunder Strike is like a fireball.  It hits a circular radius around its primary target (not a circular radius centered on you, like PBAoEs such as Whirling Hands).  It's a small fireball, only 7'.  In practice, yes, that means it won't likely hit people behind you, because you're between them and the primary target, and that means they aren't within 7' of the primary target.

 

But it's not a cone.  It's a circle, centered on the primary target.

Edited by aethereal

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This is the build. i have not touched it since over a year, so some things could be different now maybe. I only play it on high level content because ageless is mandatory. @McOz

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Stalker
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Hide -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(7)
Level 2: Deflection -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(9), LucoftheG-Def(9), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(11), Ags-ResDam(11), Ags-Psi/Status(13)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(17), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(17), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), RedFrt-Def(19), RedFrt-EndRdx(21)
Level 6: Assassin's Shock -- SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(A), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(23), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--ToHit(27), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(29), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(29), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(31)
Level 10: True Grit -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(31)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(34), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Hct-Dam%(34)
Level 20: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), UnbGrd-ResDam(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36)
Level 26: Thunder Strike -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(39)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(39), Rct-Def(40), Rct-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(40), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Obl-%Dam(42)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dam%(43), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 38: One with the Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 41: Zapp -- StnoftheM-Dam%(A), StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(45), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(45), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(46), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(13), Pnc-Heal/+End(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally 
Level 1: Quick Form 
------------

 

Edited by Croax

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