Is Mace Mastery necessary for Robotics/FF?

[Weylin]

All the builds for Robo/FF seem to include it, and I'm wondering if there's a viable build that uses one of the Epic power pools instead.

This is my first time leveling a character to 50, so I don't have the years of experience that many players have to guide their decisions.

 

I've encountered numerous paradigm shifts on my path from 0 to my current level of 42, and it's starting to become painfully clear that pets are annihilated by AoE, basic minions are useless in upleveled missions, that the mastermind itself is always a full health bar away from instant death, and pets are a nuisance or disaster waiting to happen to your entire team.

[Hyperstrike]

The reason you see a lot of builds with it, is that it contains Scorpion Shield.  One of the greatest non-Primary/Secondary armors in the game.
It VASTLY simplifies becoming a massive, unaugmented (by other players) Defense-monster.
And when you take into account the buffs from your Protector bots...

Defense Debuffs harshing your mellow?
PFF+Afterburner!  And it just stays on until you run out of end or die!

Now, is it possible to get there WITHOUT it?

Sure!
 

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Charge Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(19), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc(33), BldMnd-Dmg(34)
Level 1: Force Bolt -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(A), OvrFrc-End/Rech(3), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(5), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(11), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(13), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(13)
Level 2: Deflection Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(3)
Level 4: Insulation Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(5)
Level 6: Pulse Rifle Burst -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(9), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(11)
Level 8: Equip Robot -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(34), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(34), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), BldMnd-Acc(39), BldMnd-Dmg(39)
Level 14: Kick -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(17), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(19)
Level 16: Personal Force Field -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Repair -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(21), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(23), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 24: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(25), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg(A), SvrRgh-Dmg/EndRdx(27), SvrRgh-Acc/EndRdx(27), SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), SvrRgh-Acc(29), SvrRgh-PetResDam(31)
Level 28: Repulsion Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 30: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), Frb-Fly(39), Frb-Stlth(45)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Repulsion Bomb -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(37)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(42), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Electric Shackles -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(48), SprEnt-End/Rchg(48), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(50), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(50), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(50)
Level 44: Thunder Strike -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(48)
Level 47: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Mrc-Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(40)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

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Edited August 18, 2019 by Hyperstrike

[Hyperstrike]

But there IS something to be said for Scorpion Shield.
 

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(19), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldMnd-Acc(33), BldMnd-Dmg(34)
Level 1: Force Bolt -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(A), OvrFrc-End/Rech(3), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(5), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(11), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(13), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(13)
Level 2: Deflection Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(3)
Level 4: Insulation Shield -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(5)
Level 6: Pulse Rifle Burst -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(9), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(11)
Level 8: Equip Robot -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(A), BldMnd-Dmg/EndRdx(34), BldMnd-Acc/EndRdx(34), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), BldMnd-Acc(39), BldMnd-Dmg(39)
Level 14: Kick -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(17), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(19)
Level 16: Personal Force Field -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Repair -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(21), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(23), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 24: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(25), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg(A), SvrRgh-Dmg/EndRdx(27), SvrRgh-Acc/EndRdx(27), SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), SvrRgh-Acc(29), SvrRgh-PetResDam(31)
Level 28: Repulsion Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 30: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), Frb-Fly(39), Frb-Stlth(45)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Repulsion Bomb -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(37)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(42), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(50)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A), Run-I(48)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A), Run-I(48), Flight-I(48), Flight-I(50)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Mrc-Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(40), EndMod-I(50)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

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[Demon Shell]

Chill Mastery also has a defense toggle, and a Max Health boost that increases Toxic res. It also has an AoE sleep that can stagger a mob's alpha strike.

 

But you'll miss the extra Energy defense from Scorpion. And Energy is not only a common damage-type, it's also sometimes associated with -def. Additionally, Chill would be a greater investment in terms of slots and power picks then just grabbing Scorpion Shield.

[Weylin]

Does this mean I'll have to become a villain and do that patron arc? 😛

[Demon Shell]

A Vigilante can join a Villain/Rogue doing the final mission of the first arc to skip it. Patron Pool unlock is tied to having one of the badges, not completion of the arc itself.

 

Sometimes someone advertises for that. I joined a group just last night that had the badge mission for Black Scorpions's arc.

 

Also, any one of the 4 patron badges will unlock all 4 Patron Pools. So it doesn't even have to be Black Scorpion's badge that you get (although it is the one most people do if they just want to unlock Patron Pools).

[kelly Rocket]

The other reason people take Mace Mastery is simply Power Boost. It lets you boost your Force Field click shields, and soft cap your pets easier.

[Crysis]

Do Scorpion’s arc the fast way to unlock all patron power pools.  Hop over to Pocket D, Null the Gull to Villain, -1/+1 mission difficulty, Scorpion’s arc can then be run in about 40 mins.  Send out messages in global and you’ll likely find people who want to run it with you.  When done, PPP’s unlocked, Null the Gull back to Hero and back on blue side.  SOOOOOOO much easier than it was back on Live where you had to spend days making the round trip alignment conversions.  

 

For a Robotics MM, it’s really hard to beat the combination of +DEF from Protector Bots and Scorpion Shield, especially for the S/L/E defense bonuses.

[Force Redux]

Having taken a robotics / forcefield Mastermind all the way to Incarnate back on live, I also want to recommend Mace Mastery for the AOE immobilize. While it does not prevent knock back from the Bots or others (I control that with some knock-down procs myself), it still helps keep foes clustered together which is good for Bot's AoE.

[Weylin]

I've been looking that build over up top and I'm wondering how much do the pets benefit from the set bonuses?

Do they receive those Def, Res, and Misc effects? Only from the assigned set? Or from all of them?

So many questions 🤣

[Redlynne]

Set bonuses apply to the Mastermind ONLY and do not "translate/transfer" out to your summoned Pets.  Pet IOs that have +Def/+Res aura effects on them cause the Mastermind to generate an aura the size of their Supremacy radius that will buff those attributes on summoned Pets, but the Pets have to remain within the PBAoE radius around the Mastermind to receive the effects which are more like "perma on" 100% chance procs than they are like set bonuses.

[kelly Rocket]

On 8/19/2019 at 8:06 AM, Force Redux said:

Having taken a robotics / forcefield Mastermind all the way to Incarnate back on live, I also want to recommend Mace Mastery for the AOE immobilize. While it does not prevent knock back from the Bots or others (I control that with some knock-down procs myself), it still helps keep foes clustered together which is good for Bot's AoE.

There are 3 other APP/PPPs with AoE Immobilize powers... and basically all of them are better than Web Envelope.

 

You take Mace Mastery for Power Boost or for Scorpion Shield. If the Immob is all you care about you're going to want Mu or Soul, probably.

[Force Redux]

25 minutes ago, kelly Rocket said:

There are 3 other APP/PPPs with AoE Immobilize powers... and basically all of them are better than Web Envelope.

 

You take Mace Mastery for Power Boost or for Scorpion Shield. If the Immob is all you care about you're going to want Mu or Soul, probably.

I would never take Mace just for Web Envelope. But as part of the whole package? Yes, please. Best ancillary DEF shield in the game, Power Boost, and a decent AoE immob? Sure. Great value. 

 

Immob is only part of the package. I was pointing out another good reason to take Mace. 

[Weylin]

I've been looking at that build you posted for a while and I'm wondering if the ones like Blood Mandate and Luck of the Gambler should be boosted or attuned?

[Force Redux]

Attuned. Never boost anything that gives a set bonus. But do boost generic IOs, such as two recharge reductions in Hasten.

[Weylin]

What about those set enhancements that are used on their own in the build? Some examples:

Panacea: +hitpoints/endurance in Health

Numina's Convalescence: +Regeneration/+Recovery in Health

Miracle: +Recovery in Health

Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3 Def (All) slotted last in Tough

Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased global recharge speed in Personal Force Field and Afterburner without being paired up for the 10% regeneration bonus

[kelly Rocket]

9 hours ago, Weylin said:

What about those set enhancements that are used on their own in the build? Some examples:

Panacea: +hitpoints/endurance in Health

Numina's Convalescence: +Regeneration/+Recovery in Health

Miracle: +Recovery in Health

Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3 Def (All) slotted last in Tough

Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased global recharge speed in Personal Force Field and Afterburner without being paired up for the 10% regeneration bonus

You want those either Attuned, or the lowest possible level you can get them at. There's no benefit to having them higher level, in most cases. With exceptions for Luck of the Gambler and other globals that also give an enhancement value. But even there you want them attuned.

 

Otherwise they stop working when you exemplar down.

[Weylin]

Thank you! I didn't realize they don't scale

[Tsuko]

On 8/30/2019 at 4:14 AM, Weylin said:

Thank you! I didn't realize they don't scale

 

Taking care of the examplar content is fine but remember that any attuned IO cannot be upgrade later.

 

+5 Builds can be extremly powerfull but they must be think for a whole build +5 and to be fair, some build / AT dont benefit a lot of a full +5 upgrade.

 

Attuned Io will give always give you the max amplification based on the level you are : So if you are examplar to lvl 20, your attuned IO will be 25 : did you look at the diference between an io 20 and 25 ? 😉

 

Purple and pvp io always give their bonuses and to be honnest, attuned or not, having +5 powers and set bonuses are enough to roll on exemplar content.

 

Attuned are made to allow low lvl toon to use io at very low level, not to gear lvl 50 toon.

 

Edit : ho i forget, due to the fact purple and pvp io always give their bonuses and that purple are the biggest amplification % you can get in this game (with superiors), purple io are the best io to upgrade +5 :

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Tsuko
typos, sorry for my rusty english

[Weylin]

Now I'm torn again because I don't know how often I'll be exemping once I hit 50, and if those set bonuses are really even necessary in exemp content

[Tsuko]

1 hour ago, Weylin said:

Now I'm torn again because I don't know how often I'll be exemping once I hit 50, and if those set bonuses are really even necessary in exemp content

it s the 100 bucks question of the game now 🙂

 

Dont get me wrong, i dont say that +5 builds are mandatory.

 

I just say that making a full attuned build at 50 NEGATES you the option to upgrade later.

 

By listening to idiots, people talking sh...t without self testing or justifying their own lazyness to do the long and expensive road to a full +5 build, i did the mistake to build my first "endgame build" with only attuned io (around 700 millions...)

 

IOs that i had to buy again when i understood that i could be more powerfull with a +5 build.

 

it's painfull to say the least 😛

[kelly Rocket]

Yes, but he was asking about uniques like Miracle +recovery and the Gladiator Armor +3% defense IO and such, which don't give any enhancement value. As such there's no reason to ever boost them, and you're always best off getting those specific IOs as attuned or the lowest level they come in, as the level of the IO makes absolutely zero difference to what they do.

 

Other stuff it's down to whether you're more concerned about endgame power or exemplar performance. Personally I go with everything attuned except my purples, superiors, pvps, etc, because I expect to exemplar down quite a lot, generally. Also while lower level content may be easy enough that you don't need some of your set bonuses, I really hate it when I lose global +recharge and perma-hasten goes bye-bye.