Official 'enterbasefrompasscode' Resolution thread

[ShardWarrior]

36 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

Oh the hyperbole. I don't spend HOURS on travel...or even a "good portion" of my time. You make it sound like it takes 10 mins to get to a mission when on average it takes 30-60 seconds.

The following already exist in game to help with travel:

Tram

Tunnel

Oro Portal

Mission TP

Team Transporter

Base Transport

LFG Tab

Base TPs - which can take a whopping 15-30 seconds to get to your base.. GASP

and of course... travel powers. 

 

The DEV power is an exploit that is not meant for players as stated by the devs on these forums. 

Yes, you're correct.  Your original statement that I replied to was filled with hyperbole.  The slash command doesn't make travel any easier or faster, so trying to make it sound as if it is some game breaking thing in that regard is disingenuous.  Your post categorized it as an "I win" button that somehow negates the need for travel powers.  It doesn't.  You still need to travel to mission entry points, contacts, in zone events or whatever. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[ed_anger]

Shrug, leave the slash command, it’s useful. Add a 10 second delay if it’s a player, not a GM. Problem solved. 

[Indystruck]

The slash command makes travel much easier and faster, what are you talking about? It's been amazing for speedruns at the very least. But it also completely nullifies a number of ingame powers by simply existing, like, the Base TP temp accolade, or the purchaseable Base TP, or Longe Range Teleport. The command should be removed, but, I'm all for the duration on either of the existing Base TPs to be lowered, but not to the extent that it's instanteous because that doesn't solve the issue.

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

The slash command makes travel much easier and faster, what are you talking about?

How?  You still need to zone to a base then to whatever zone you need to go to then travel to the mission door.

[Indystruck]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

How?  You still need to zone to a base then to whatever zone you need to go to then travel to the mission door.

Think about TFs that stick you deep into a hazard zone, like, say Boomtown, or Crey's Folly. You exit a door, instantaneously travel to your base, which is a couple seconds worth of load time on my machine, run over to the teleporter, and are instantly in the zone that the next mission takes place in. Hell, I've participated in TFs that set server best paces without using travel powers, because I have access to that slash command. I will be first to the door using ninja run/sprint over other people, so long as they didn't just use Mission TP. It is extraordinarily convenient. 

[ShardWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

Think about TFs that stick you deep into a hazard zone, like, say Boomtown, or Crey's Folly. You exit a door, instantaneously travel to your base, which is a couple seconds worth of load time on my machine, run over to the teleporter, and are instantly in the zone that the next mission takes place in. Hell, I've participated in TFs that set server best paces without using travel powers, because I have access to that slash command. I will be first to the door using ninja run/sprint over other people, so long as they didn't just use Mission TP. It is extraordinarily convenient. 

And this is different than using the Oro portal?  Or mission teleporter?  Or existing base teleporter?  I mean, yeah it might save you a couple of seconds here and there, but that's about it.  If your mission door is near a train station or your next zone is accessible from Oro, the slash command isn't necessary or convenient.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Indystruck]

3 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

And this is different than using the Oro portal?  Or mission teleporter?  Or existing base teleporter?  I mean, yeah it might save you a couple of seconds here and there, but that's about it.  If you're mission door is near a train station or your next zone is accessible from Oro, the slash command isn't necessary. 

Yes, because Ouro and Mission TP and existing base teleporters all have existing cooldowns, where as the slash command explicitly does not, Ouro also doesn't work as a transfer point to every zone. And it easily saves several minutes through out a task force run. You don't know where a door is going to be until you get in the zone, outside from a few specific missions like talkies/transit bound ones, so that's not really relevant to the conversation. And in those instances where you do know, you have to weigh whether or not the Ouro-exit point or the Base portal point is more advantangeous.

 

And I agree, the slash command isn't necessary, and I'm speaking as someone who abuses the hell out of it for speedrunning, for RP, and as a base building enthusiast.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Indystruck

[ShardWarrior]

By the time you finish a mission, your Oro portal is recharged.  So no, not buying it.  If anything, it is just another convenience like the P2W stuff or the Oro portal.

[Indystruck]

Alright, then, well, I don't care if you don't buy it, because it's just straight up more useful indisputably than Ouros. Ouros doesn't take you to a number of major zones, or link to any hazard zones.

[ShardWarrior]

Well take some comfort in knowing you're going to get your wish eventually.  It's getting removed no matter how much discussion there is on the topic and I'm absolutely certain we'll be stuck with something no one will particularly like. 

 

And the slash command cannot take you to Oro, not to mention the exit points for Oro in some cases are far better than the base exit points, so it does have its advantages. 

[Indystruck]

Bases are actually the easiest way to get the Ouroboros portal, explicitly because you can access Ouroboros from there at level one. While it's more circuitous than just using the portal, it absolutely can take you to Ouroboros, and the base itself does have Pillar of Ice and Flame functionality anyway.

[Peerless Girl]

This game already has the easiest and simplest travel in existence. The slash command was an oversight and a mistake, it's trivializing content, making an exploit exit for combat and PvP, and renders all other travel/base TP powers moot. It's a command hook designed to be used by the portal interface, clearly, it needs to go away, and I can bet good money it's GOING to go away. There's nothing more to be said on it. There's no debate, there's no bargaining, there's no questioning. There's just what needs to happen. Close your eyes, and accept it. 

[justicebeliever]

 

5 minutes ago, Peerless Girl said:

This game already has the easiest and simplest travel in existence. The slash command was an oversight and a mistake, it's trivializing content, making an exploit exit for combat and PvP, and renders all other travel/base TP powers moot. It's a command hook designed to be used by the portal interface, clearly, it needs to go away, and I can bet good money it's GOING to go away. There's nothing more to be said on it. There's no debate, there's no bargaining, there's no questioning. There's just what needs to happen. Close your eyes, and accept it. 

It is an Internet forum...there will be debate, bargaining and questioning.  And there is always something more to be said.  It likely isn’t to change minds, but I think the existing commentary will likely have the dev’s improve the existing Base TP, so it’s worthwhile having these discussions

Edited August 29, 2019 by justicebeliever

[Cinderwalker]

1 hour ago, Peerless Girl said:

 There's nothing more to be said on it. There's no debate, there's no bargaining, there's no questioning. There's just what needs to happen. Close your eyes, and accept it. 

Pretty sure I said that in the first post in the thread. We all know it is going away. 

[Icey-Lady]

Sorta makes the game smaller. I look forward to it going away.

[Kistulot]

Here's my two cents on this:

 

1) There are two powers that can get you to bases, but both have freakishly long cooldowns of over 10 minutes, but 20 minutes instead.

2) You can always ouro>talos>SG, but this adds zoning to ouro, and talos, to get to your SG.

3) Ouro is unlockable at level 1 with any SG that can get to echo galaxy city, but you either pay for the power from P2W or get it via dayjob

4) The channel time is loooooong, which is good for preventing pvp abuses....

5) Ouro's cooldown is only 5 minutes

6) It's nice to use the command to go from one SG base to another! 😄

 

So, if we can't 'fix' the SG command to just not work in pvp, and it's going away regardless...

 

With all of this in mind, why not have the powers only take five minutes to recharge? The channel time still would suck loads. You can even make it so it doesn't work in pvp. I honestly don't see why it's such a big deal to be able to port to a base if you've outright earned it. Double the cost if you want, make me buy it over again, but as it is, removing it without improving the game feels to me like a bit of a jerk move, even if I agree with removing the PvP exploits.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Well take some comfort in knowing you're going to get your wish eventually.  It's getting removed no matter how much discussion there is on the topic and I'm absolutely certain we'll be stuck with something no one will particularly like. 

 

And the slash command cannot take you to Oro, not to mention the exit points for Oro in some cases are far better than the base exit points, so it does have its advantages. 

And sadly may well be enough for me to lose faith in the home coming team, the HC servers and maybe CoH in general coming back till my bro gets around to setting up a personal server. He already is on the fence to abandon HC because of the debate raging over well rage in SS and the fear they will neuter one of his most beloved power sets. He and I are of the same mind in that we would rather play as just a coupel of RL friends on a personal server then deal with a dev team making changes we dont agree with most of the time.

 

Hell look at DDO a game where for more then 12 years people have been decrying travel time to mish entrances and how it hurts the community by not allowing an instant teleport to the currently set quest. When people want to play together they want to play, not wait around for each other.  This so called exploit, which imo does not meet the traditional definition of the term which among other things requires it to grant a distinct and significant advantage in negating the challenge of content. Travel time isnt part of a challenge, its filler, that for those that enjoy flying around like myself cool, for those who just want to run content every second not running content is a waste of their time.

 

As you pointed out, the change from sister psyche to penny yin shows the live team devs recognized the error and flaw in the older content design. Had the game not shut down its not hard to guess all the old TFs would of been turned into ozone missions and their replacements would of like penyin been in one zone, of much shorter duration, and focus on playing the game rather then be a super power travel simulator.

 

Honestly Ive been finding these debates of late against bad suggestions and negative choices from the HC devs like the kb to kd IO which now ahd people being highly rude to those who dont want to use them and kcking them from groups has been really hurting my desire to log on. I find myself enjoying Warframe more because it focuses on the fun of games, playing them in a fast fun frenetic style. I loved CoH so much, wished nearly every day for 7 years it would come back, but now it feels like a corrupt a wish where those in control of it are just not seeing the good aspects that I see and seem to embrace the worst flaws of it as things to hold up and celebrate. I mean PvP, master badges for braggarts? these are the things you want to place as more important than QoL no matter how that QoL improvement began as, its so damn loved by everyone Ive shared it with I already can bet some will find it being taken away to be such a bad choice they may too leave the game again and just treat this as an animate dead spell rather then a raise dead spell.

[Indystruck]

8 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

And sadly may well be enough for me to lose faith in the home coming team, the HC servers and maybe CoH in general coming

 

Oh, don't be so melodramatic.

[Kistulot]

18 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Honestly Ive been finding these debates of late against bad suggestions and negative choices from the HC devs like the kb to kd IO which now ahd people being highly rude to those who dont want to use them and kcking them from groups has been really hurting my desire to log on. I find myself enjoying Warframe more because it focuses on the fun of games, playing them in a fast fun frenetic style.

 

Did you ever play Warframe back in the day...?

Because all the Warframe devs ever used to do was remove fun things to play. Can't have the Rescue Rhino running through the entire map as fast as possible for completion, gotta put up lasers, and arc traps, and and and and.

 

The HC devs have done a lot to make the game more fun--like the recent snipe changes. They may just disagree with you on what makes the game more fun, but they aren't going "this intended game behavior is fun, we're going to nerf it into the ground" like say... increasing cooldowns, or slowing travel powers.

 

They are removing an EXPLOIT. it lets you leave pvp at any time. I don't find any other argument compelling, since I feel IOs trivialize most content... but that really can't be allowed.

[ShardWarrior]

6 hours ago, Kistulot said:

They are removing an EXPLOIT. it lets you leave pvp at any time.

I don't believe anyone said it should be allowed.  Disabling its use in PvP zones or Arena and adding a 10 second interruptible activation time solves the problem too.

[ShardWarrior]

8 hours ago, Peerless Girl said:

This game already has the easiest and simplest travel in existence.

This is not true.  I already gave one example of a modern MMO which requires no travel to access the content.

[Burnt Toast]

10 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Yes, you're correct.  Your original statement that I replied to was filled with hyperbole.  The slash command doesn't make travel any easier or faster, so trying to make it sound as if it is some game breaking thing in that regard is disingenuous.  Your post categorized it as an "I win" button that somehow negates the need for travel powers.  It doesn't.  You still need to travel to mission entry points, contacts, in zone events or whatever. 

It is game breaking in pvp..... which is/was the main concern among the devs. So while it may not be an "i win" button it was very much so an "Phew I won't be killed in pvp" button. I never once insinuated that anyone should not have travel powers... my first post actually stated the contrary since they stated it took 5 mins to get to a mission... told them to invest in a travel power. Since the slash command doesn't make travel any faster/easier (your words)... why all the hoopla on maintaining it.. if it is so under powered?

 

Point is: It is a dev command - was never meant to be used by players. There are already numerous ways to decrease travel time significantly without busting out powers that were never meant to be used by players. 

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

It is game breaking in pvp..... which is/was the main concern among the devs.

And no one suggested it was not and should not be corrected.  Removing it is not the only solution to the problem.

 

As to the "hoolplah", it is a nice QoL feature that allows one to save macros to friendly bases without needing to tab out to copy/paste or type in base entry codes.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

10 hours ago, Kistulot said:

 

Did you ever play Warframe back in the day...?

Because all the Warframe devs ever used to do was remove fun things to play. Can't have the Rescue Rhino running through the entire map as fast as possible for completion, gotta put up lasers, and arc traps, and and and and.

 

The HC devs have done a lot to make the game more fun--like the recent snipe changes. They may just disagree with you on what makes the game more fun, but they aren't going "this intended game behavior is fun, we're going to nerf it into the ground" like say... increasing cooldowns, or slowing travel powers.

 

They are removing an EXPLOIT. it lets you leave pvp at any time. I don't find any other argument compelling, since I feel IOs trivialize most content... but that really can't be allowed.

Yes PvP something even at the height of the game was used by a mere fraction of a percentage of the population, and that was to exploit it by  having allied SGs and VGs farm each other. It was literally one of the reasons used to justify shuttering live because it along with city of villains, and going rogue aka the praetorian zone had such a poor activity rate of player use it was indeed quantifed as bad design and a waste of the dev time and resources put into developing them, and why they never bothered to try to balance things after ED. Because ED was shown to have had a huge negative impact on player retention, and while eventually IOs and sets gave us more, a great many who left never came back to give the game another chance.

 

I myself love good well balanced PVP. City of never has nor can ever have it because of the sheer chasm of power possible between two characters. I love good well balanced open world pvp as well as long as they have anti gank and anti grief systems in place to punish those not fighting fair. Again City of has never had that and really cant have that. Ive been on a brute and held my own against a tank,scrapper, defender and blaster and repeatedly beat each to near death juggling targets and using my KBs/KDs and disorients to hinder them. But ofcourse because I was one to four I couldnt actually finish any off because like I said 1 to 4 and couldnt risk giving any single one enough attention to overwhelm them so eventually I just popped a phase shift, hit my jump pack, and left them behind after hitting each with air superiority. Neither side felt satisfied by that. they all were mad because one OP brute couldnt be killed, and I was disgusted by so called heroes playing more like a group of gang rapists. In a game based around comic books, it actually should penalize the blue siders for behaving like that. Granted that was all back when cov first launched. and because of fights like that I and many others logically abandoned pvp, just as the developers did.

 

But as I have said, my soul goal is preserving this for RPers and the base network being developed by players. Many of whom dont use the forums and know this discussion is even happening. How many of those unaware, who are using this tool as part of the reason to work hard on numerous bases to expand our cityscape are going to feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them, and like all their energy has been wasted and plans ruined if this is just yanked away entirely rather then a  good compromise found. I have a couple bars filled with base code macros to access a large network of amazing player made zones that each took hundreds of hours if not more to create in each case. Making city scapes designed to be traveled between is a huge thing at this time with the base building community. And becomes all for naught if we cant travel quickly between them to simulate just walking down the street because we have to keep popping back to random sewer hole entrance which kills immersion.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

3 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

It is game breaking in pvp..... which is/was the main concern among the devs. So while it may not be an "i win" button it was very much so an "Phew I won't be killed in pvp" button. I never once insinuated that anyone should not have travel powers... my first post actually stated the contrary since they stated it took 5 mins to get to a mission... told them to invest in a travel power. Since the slash command doesn't make travel any faster/easier (your words)... why all the hoopla on maintaining it.. if it is so under powered?

 

Point is: It is a dev command - was never meant to be used by players. There are already numerous ways to decrease travel time significantly without busting out powers that were never meant to be used by players. 

Here is something to consider, dev is short for developer, the main people wanting to preserve this are part of the expanded city movement using the new outdoor base trick the HC devs have given us that was never meant to be in the game either. Basically all of us because of the bases are actively contributing to development of an expanded game world for everyone to enjoy. We are basically now all devs if we choose to be by participating in that.

 

So since we all actually are able to assist even in a small way with developing our game world Id argue its appropriate we have access to a single dev command that is essential for assisting us in that goal.

 

Here is what I suggest a poll askign how many base builders value this, and how many players actively participate in pvp, and link that poll to a window upon logging into the game so everyone playing is aware of this debate. If there are more builders wanting it then people playing actively in pvp on a daily basis then maybe just maybe the HC team needs to reflect on which faction matters more.

 

And taht is my argument, how many pvpers spend as many hours a day playing pvp as we who RP and base build? I mean I can spend all day RPing in this game. How many spend hours actively engaged in pvp because I am very doubtful there are any.