Erratic1

You speak for every person who plays Brutes?

??? That sentence doesn't parse. Feel free to post the numbers on kill times.

So your positions hps are not meaningful to surviving? That's rather discrediting of your argument. And again, 8% greater clear versus 21% more health is what was demonstrated.

It is at least a data point. What data point do you have that argues otherwise?

The bring higher damage per hit but area means something. A Brute who could one-shot opponents faced with 1000 opponents takes 1000 swings to kill them. A tanker who hits 5 foes at once for 50% of their lives does not hit as hard but he is dealing more damage over time because 5*50%=250% versus 1*100%. The increased area of the area attacks on Tankers directly translates into extra damage done over time over the case of not having the extra area. So it is misleading (intentional or not) to only point at raw damage scales. What I would prefer is a feeling of honest argument. Nothing is compelling you to reply.

Amazing how it is all about the numbers when discussing Brutes vs Blasters and Scrappers but it gets all qualitative when its Brutes vs Tankers--"well enough". And if the clearing speed difference between the two ATs is at 8% difference with the Tanker having 21% more ability to survive damage, clearly there is a realm in which they do not survive well enough or Tankers don't need the survivability as its useless and it can be trimmed. Which is it?

Actually it was that Brutes could, with sufficient support, reach higher damage. On their own they did not. I do not have a problem with Brutes doing less damage than Blasters or Scrapper (who have less survivability) even when supported. That extra survivability means something. Now, apply that principle vis-a-vis Tankers and Brutes.

But the statement I was replying to was: Well, considering many of the claims being made only make sense in the context of a fully kitted out build, I am assuming that all of the “brutes are useless lol” supporting data was more or less gathered at 50+3. Is a Tanker useless on teams because they don't do damage? No, because their job on the team is to hold aggro and survive. They will have better survivability the entire time levelling, contrary to the statement above and will have it once IO'd to the gills. So what is the Brute bringing to the table pre-50 or post-50? Less survability? Granted, I don't really feel Brutes are useless on teams but if we're going to explore the claim being made beyond, "Lol, their wrong!" it perhaps pays to actually consider what the case actually is--and the above statement that somehow things are different pre-50 doesn't hold up.

This ignores that people don't always play on teams and that team composition varies considerably. And the question is not if there should have been a buff or not but the extent of the buff.

Which only means something if the Brute IOs and the Tank doesn't, no?

If what you're doing is working for you, who cares if you could get more damage. Its been a while since I've played my Rad/Shield scrapper but hopped on him to grab a chatlog: 2021-02-06 18:39:17 Readying Radioactive Smash. 2021-02-06 18:39:18 HIT Headman Gunman! Your Radioactive Smash power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 22.63. 2021-02-06 18:39:18 You hit Headman Gunman with your Radioactive Smash for 41.15 points of Smashing damage. 2021-02-06 18:39:18 You hit Headman Gunman with your Radioactive Smash for 123.48 points of Energy damage. 2021-02-06 18:39:18 You knock Headman Gunman off their feet with your Radioactive Smash! 2021-02-06 18:39:18 HIT Chief Soldier! Your Radioactive Smash power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 90.15. 2021-02-06 18:39:18 HIT Infantry! Your Radioactive Smash power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 51.30. 2021-02-06 18:39:18 HIT Conscript! Your Radioactive Smash power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 66.78. 2021-02-06 18:39:19 You hit Chief Soldier with your Radioactive Smash for 48.45 points of Toxic damage. 2021-02-06 18:39:19 You hit Conscript with your Radioactive Smash for 48.45 points of Toxic damage. 2021-02-06 18:39:19 You hit Infantry with your Radioactive Smash for 48.45 points of Toxic damage. The actual target took the full damage of the attack whereas the nearby opponents took about a third each and in total roughly what was done to the actual target. If you can survive big crowds, that would seem to be worth it in my book. But your mileage may vary.

Assuming Proton Sweep is not part a power you've taken (because it is miserable and should not be taken) you're left with five primary attacks. If Devastating Blow is not part of your set of attacks, what are you doing to fill the time because it is hard to see how Contaminated Strike, Radioactive Smash, Radiation Siphon, and Atom Smasher are rotating quickly enough unless you've invested in some serious recharge.

I would imagine most melee ATs are shooting for more than Melee and S/L at 45 but Melee/Ranged/AoE (or S/L/F/C/E/N+) to 45, so there should not be other mitigations floored (except possibly Toxic/Psionic--and some people build to cover those too). Edit: Not enough sleep last night. You're talking Dark Armor buids. D'oh!

It is going to be different pre-50 while levelling when most Brutes not-IO'd out are going to have the exact same defense/resistance values as scrappers while tanks will enjoy being most of the way to cap?

I PUG exclusively and in the past week or so there have been two occasions where my scrapper was the only melee in the group. Aggro control was never brought up. What they seemingly needed me for, judging by how people would hold back until I leapt in, was to have someone to take the enemy alpha strike. And that was fine by me since my opening attack is an AoE that triggers the scrapper critical buff. I don't feel sorry for scrappers because my mindset (so yes, I am extending from me to the population as a whole unfairly here) on my scrappers is, "Did you see that sea of beautiful crits I just did?"

To clarify, that was not one heal proc total, but one heal proc per power that takes them.

With sufficient protection you obviously would need no healing at all. But we can't all playing Granite. 😛 I suggest the following from the standpoint of having played a DM/Inv Scrapper and DM/Electric Brute back on live. Invulnerability can be pretty tanky, regardless of AT. It might pay to get your protection in place then back up off it by adding only one heal proc to see if that tradeoff both gets you extra survivability without losing damage.

I dislike grinding and have generally felt the economy made IOs prohibitive, so 50 has traditionally been the end for my characters, though perhaps with a bit of a foray into Incarnation here and there. However.... Having come back to Homecoming after a year away, I worked a character I had left hanging in his low 30s to 50, laid out what I thought would be a relatively cheap IO build geared less towards dominating +4/8 play and more towards reaching defense caps with good resists, and quite literally put most of the pieces (44 of 67 slots) together last night after two weeks of buying IOs on the cheap. It wasn't horrible, though when I look at what I might want to accomplish on other characters it looks like a more expensive endeavor--at least double the cost. So things may have shifted from 50 being an end to 50 being the gateway to the strange, new, wonderful and terrible land.

You can give homes to the others in your remaining 9 costume slots. 😀

I cannot take credit for the choice because it was driven by luck and prior work. I was headed toward Vanguard leggings (I think) and as I drug the pointer down the legs came up and seemed to match with the chest you'd chosen (one I do not think I've ever noticed before). Like you, I have never found an overall design using those legging that I have ever liked.

Love what you did. Of course that only inspired me to do a ripoff. What is it? Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery? BetaComRev.costume

Commander Beta.costume

Fine, you've voiced your opinion. Others feel differently. And for anything else on the topic, I'll be in the thread in the Brute forum

Most teams are not going to notice. They want you to take the alpha. The group I just got out of before posting this? I was the only melee, and my scrapper was leaping in first.

Its less the formatting change then selective replying to portions of entire sentences, as if the phrase is not within a context. As example... Replied to in the following fashion: In fact the sentence is not false, but the formatting makes it appear what said was something about how defenders uniformly must play the game when what was said was that if a defender wants to get maximum damage they have to spend time setting it up all the blather about agreeing to terms of service in the game and being free to play the game your own way notwithstanding.