Maxzero

If anything proc changes would benefit ToF the best due to the low CD. The PPP attacks would suffer the most. Until we know what those changes are there is no point taking them into account.

Honestly most AoE 'rotations' consist of only 2-3 attacks anyway. The only reason you don't notice the animations and 'spaminess' is that there is a usually a several second wait between each rotation. I would rather be spamming an AoE then doing nothing (or using ST attacks) waiting for CDs to come up.

I mean is the AoE ToF THAT bad? With procs I am looking a mid 200s Aoe for my Tanker with a high target cap and a 2.88 sec recharge. Unlike PPP AoEs I will still have it when I exemp down. A procced out PPP AoE is looking at 350+ damage but on a 12 sec CD (the AoE Immo is about 250 damage on a 6-7 sec CD). Seems to be one of the better lower level AoEs.

I agree simply for internal balance. Seems strange to have the level 4 AoE on a longer CD then the level 20 AoE. I could see the CD moved out to 12-14 seconds and either getting extra damage or the fear and -hit made AoE. Though I am not sure why the Fear and -hit being AoE would be problematic in the first place.

Pylons in general are a strange beast. With non pet characters (which dominate times due to action efficiency) the biggest boost you can get for pylon times is having access to flat -resist procs in a ST chain. Take the Ach Heel and Glad Fury out of a TW build and watch the times plummet. Yet once you get into team play those very same procs lose heaps of their value (since other party members often have them).

Amazingly enough only 71% of Tanker DMs take Shadow Maul. That means there are a significant number of DM Tanker's running about with no AoE at all.

At +4 there is a few problems in that the magnitude is not high enough to teleport Lts or Bosses. +3 (ie with Incarnates) still means Bosses won't get teleported. Wormhole has the same issue.

Indeed my SR/DM Tanker is only using it as a AoE and honestly in AoE situations its only Maul+ToF with the occasional Soul Drain/PPP anyway. With only 2 main powers in the standard AoE rotation what else is there to do but spam ToF?

Personal preference only but I rate AoE over ST. DM was already decent with Shadow Maul but with a second good early AoE DMs main weakness is gone.

Thinking about Dark melee now. The target cap nerf for Shadow Maul is not a huge deal for Tankers since you rarely got more then 10 targets into the arc of Shadow Maul anyway. Now you just get a plain old extra AoE in Touch of Fear at level 20. This means that DM has gone from one lowest AoE sets to one of the better ones especially at low levels. Galaxy Brain has done some fantastic testing in the Titan revamp thread and DM is right in the top tier. Considering how well DM exemps compared to TW and Savage and that it has heals I think its a very strong all rounder.

For Touch of Fear since only the inital target gets affected by the Fear and -hit does that mean any Fear based or -hit based proc (say Clouded Senses Neg Damage) would only have a chance to proc on the initial target?

So yay or nay on TW now? I have held off making TW firstly because it was FotM and then the incoming nerfs.

It's basically Shadow Maul but with less damage. 16 target cap too if you have the 'buff.' I'll find space for it.

It's a 120 Arc cone. On Tankers thats 240 arc. With 10 range (melee range is 8 usually). This ain't no regular cone.

So it looks like Energy Melee is back on the menu. Stun is now Shadow Maul but with less damage. The old T9 is now the T6 which now buffs the new T9. 70 second Stalker pylon kills. Who needs Titan Weapons when your ENERGY FISTS are now better?

But EM does not have redraw issues, painful gameplay and end issues. You just punch things, with energy. Very, very hard.

So goodbye TW hello EM?

Energy Melee with 1 sec ET and Shadow Maul. I can feel the balance.

Power Crash is a pretty legit AoE. 10 range 120 arc is not what I would call a 'minor' cone. On Tankers thats a 240 arc and basically a full PBAoE. It seems very strong in ST and AoE with a little soft control with no real downside.

Realised my ST rotation was terrible so updated it: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1549;750;1500;HEX;| |78DA6554494F535114BEAF7D055A0AB4B48502656891CE94564D9C4012450C43130| |2C69D692A5CA0A1699B0E06E3CA9F604CE40F38E086C461E1C6853FC0AD89BA70A5| |E2C020EAC285A9E7BDEF084DFA42F9CEF07DF79C7B4E5F93EB13D6ADCBB7C78562B| |D984D974AA92BE9DC9A2C36252BE5743993CF09ED69A44F2F12A909B92C7325195B| |A814C89B97CB59B92E4B1ECE266556CAD87C7A29A3ABE1DBA772ABB22873E5D87FA| |3652E9FCFC626332BABE54C6EC5A27B0B052997AC30F3C54559BC096756A60B44EA| |BC54C82CC62E142B65995AC857B2A964BA5426929B7A8BD2E75407FD53B46EABAA7| |091915085C109546D8C7660AB03B81538D418C51BA31E6B780B6C7A07B4BC079EA6| |F315E62AFAF96661B0011B9C40CB5F6D50AA38435C23B88A9173ADAC394B391372C| |2E415FAD9E728D6C8FC46E637315FA1E19B05F8E62A3D6294D8CD609B9A7FA23BEB| |01E32E70600F38B80F3CF60368A4D35AF8162D7F1073FF32EA953CBF81DEE3883FA| |1E9B4A1B2A9CD6F402E0C6C8F18748ECD058DB3036873433B463DDAF94676BE513B| |DF48A51E1CDC8363067CE734F41D938C53C09721215CDC83EB316ABAEF03BB1F00F| |B1E323E022636813EAAD3C93D7446847E5E88F13CF5D7C55BE81AC6160E8242F4F0| |5C7B760DFA263DB790EB133CCFD7387B601CBEF715F90E55DC1D223A6FA9B707B93| |B14EBE7DEFBB7118B7E010E7F65FF1BFBDF1977804F69F63ED6FA96D1736085EFB0| |869E06538401DA6D9077CCBD3D23ED106B876E40E3E77BF847B13FFF18B801BE678| |0B58B7454105A351807379C402E1CC24E4251D40B6F432BC98D70BDC84770A29F80| |239FC11D3198802FF0862458FBC12A448CE7167B8E7AF7A8F938624A5C5BA0C6E7B| |D7954C14F95FEB4B721A41EBEC3D5705D365E1749D4454ED4454ED645666B2346CC| |634EE5C214537496D926B4EF89DECB8EE5F0F74228FC0DDB3B8A19142F26D33DADE| |85B1CB88ADFA4DD5A5D10BAFDDAD80657B768F341AD6B3576BAC6BE5E63CF3848C6| |F6468DBDE93BB2FF0178ECFEE3| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Rotation is: Gloom->Siphon->DB Gloom->Siphon->Dark Ob->CS 3.30 pylon kill for 310 DPS. REALLY happy with how that turned out ST wise. Basically worked all 3 -res procs into the ST rotation with good uptime too. Rad melee has been super impressive for me.

3.30 (210 seconds) for a SR/Rad Tanker: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1549;750;1500;HEX;| |78DA6554494F535114BEAF7D055A0AB4B48502656891CE94564D9C4012450C43130| |2C69D692A5CA0A1699B0E06E3CA9F604CE40F38E086C461E1C6853FC0AD89BA70A5| |E2C020EAC285A9E7BDEF084DFA42F9CEF07DF79C7B4E5F93EB13D6ADCBB7C78562B| |D984D974AA92BE9DC9A2C36252BE5743993CF09ED69A44F2F12A909B92C7325195B| |A814C89B97CB59B92E4B1ECE266556CAD87C7A29A3ABE1DBA772ABB22873E5D87FA| |3652E9FCFC626332BABE54C6EC5A27B0B052997AC30F3C54559BC096756A60B44EA| |BC54C82CC62E142B65995AC857B2A964BA5426929B7A8BD2E75407FD53B46EABAA7| |091915085C109546D8C7660AB03B81538D418C51BA31E6B780B6C7A07B4BC079EA6| |F315E62AFAF96661B0011B9C40CB5F6D50AA38435C23B88A9173ADAC394B391372C| |2E415FAD9E728D6C8FC46E637315FA1E19B05F8E62A3D6294D8CD609B9A7FA23BEB| |01E32E70600F38B80F3CF60368A4D35AF8162D7F1073FF32EA953CBF81DEE3883FA| |1E9B4A1B2A9CD6F402E0C6C8F18748ECD058DB3036873433B463DDAF94676BE513B| |DF48A51E1CDC8363067CE734F41D938C53C09721215CDC83EB316ABAEF03BB1F00F| |B1E323E022636813EAAD3C93D7446847E5E88F13CF5D7C55BE81AC6160E8242F4F0| |5C7B760DFA263DB790EB133CCFD7387B601CBEF715F90E55DC1D223A6FA9B707B93| |B14EBE7DEFBB7118B7E010E7F65FF1BFBDF1977804F69F63ED6FA96D1736085EFB0| |869E06538401DA6D9077CCBD3D23ED106B876E40E3E77BF847B13FFF18B801BE678| |0B58B7454105A351807379C402E1CC24E4251D40B6F432BC98D70BDC84770A29F80| |239FC11D3198802FF0862458FBC12A448CE7167B8E7AF7A8F938624A5C5BA0C6E7B| |D7954C14F95FEB4B721A41EBEC3D5705D365E1749D4454ED4454ED645666B2346CC| |634EE5C214537496D926B4EF89DECB8EE5F0F74228FC0DDB3B8A19142F26D33DADE| |85B1CB88ADFA4DD5A5D10BAFDDAD80657B768F341AD6B3576BAC6BE5E63CF3848C6| |F6468DBDE93BB2FF0178ECFEE3| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Rotation is: Gloom->Siphon->DB Gloom->Siphon->Dark Ob->CS Honestly am really happy with how this turned out. This guy is tanky as hell and has great AoE but with decent ST. 310 ST DPS is a lot more then I was expecting. Especially without moving into TW or SS. I think the excellent proccing of Irradiated Ground (for 2 -res procs) and Dark Ob in the ST rotation giving us decent uptime of the -res proc (about 50%) really helps.

It's mainly just for the extra resists when I need it. Most of the time I don't but it gives me something to press when I do. I also use all the slots leading up to it. I like SR over SD because it uses far fewer slots to do what it does. Slots are the limiting resource for builds. It's why SR is becoming popular again at the high end. All these fancy proc builds need slots and those slots tend to provide fewer set bonuses. So the slack has to be picked up somewhere.

I am making a SR/Rad at the moment as well. I felt that squeezing slots for resists has dimishing returns in that there are some good low hanging fruit but once you got beyond that you end up spending a lot of slots for 2.25% resist and such. So I wanted a slot efficient way to reduce the damage of hits that get through my defense. Enter: Darkest Night AND Rune of Protection. In addition having one AoE that only does less then 200 damage seems a bit weak and not really taking advantage of the proc focus. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1554;752;1504;HEX;| |78DA65544B4F135114BED399022D055ADA4281F268913EA1B46AE20B2451C4F0684| |2C0B8334D850B34346DD387C1B872E9D298C81FF0811B12C5851B17FE00B726EAC2| |AD2F1EA22E5C987A3ADF1126E9A4D3EF9E73BEEF9E73CF9999E4C6A46DFBEADD09A| |1D82E67D3A552EA5A3AB72E8B4DC94A395DCEE473A27635D2DD8B406A52AEC85C49| |C6162B05B216E44A566EC89297A349999532B6905ECEE86AD88EE9DC9A2CCA5C39F| |67FD1329FCF67635399D5B57226B76AD5ADC58294CB362CF3C52559BC0D634EA60B| |44EABC52C82CC52E152B65995ACC57B2A964BA542692876A1BA1FB4C07FD29B56AA| |B9A70D322A109930BA8D9191DC05627703B68D0BC53755FC37B60D307A0F523E33D| |4DC7B39447814655F43C1661B2031B5CC0C4DF5AC334718EB82AB88ACAB156D69CA| |798193161F6097DEF0BE46B647E23F39B98AFD0102C027C4B952E3146EC66B0CDCD| |3F51A5ED90710F38B00F1C3C009EF8015469B7163E45CB1FF83CBF543D93F737D07| |712FEE7D4A5366436B7054C884580ED5193CEB1BBA1717500ED1E68C7A946079FC8| |C1276AE713695483936B70CE82EF9A81BE638A711AF83A2C849B6B703F434ECF236| |0F76360DF13C6A7C0C416D04F793AB986CEA8D0F70B335EA4FABA780A5D2398C261| |48881EEE6BCF9E499FA4F70E627D82FBF9167B0F4CC0F6BD21DBA989074344E729F| |5F620769F7CFD5C7BFF67F886BF0047BEB2FD8DEDEF8CBBC017D47B3F6BFD2BA839| |B8CA6758474D8329C220CD36C433E6DA76483BC4DAA15BD004F81C8131CC2F300E6| |E90CF1964ED126D1582560BC5C18D24108B843193F030F2453E432BC98CB226BA83| |7CC3AF906FD40FEEA8C90C64CD279B1031EE57EC25F23CA4A2E3F029F1DAE08897E| |0797935C157957EB5B720AC1DBDC3D5485D345EE749D4794ED5794ED779E68C1E15| |7D98D73831F9149D65B18BDAF3A1D7B26B3DFA4E08859FACFD639F49F1A123DD338| |A3EBD81EBF826ED197521E80E8CBE4DCE6EADF507B96E18D669C3FAA6613DEB2419| |AF370D6BFDDAF21F3BFE01B0B102A7| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Rotation is CS-DB-CS-Gloom-CS-Siphon. If you have extra outside recharge you can start dropping CS (starting with the one between Siphon and DB). The CS has a weak proc rate so I demote it to filler and utility proccer. 700 damage from DB, 423 from Gloom and 451 from Siphon more then make up for it. AoE wise I have a 433 (!) damage Atom Smash and a 298 Dark Ob, with IG its pretty brutal AoE. Defensively I have Runes of Protection with decent uptime (188 second recharge at 10% recharge Ageless) and Darkest Night. For dangerous pulls you just pop Runes and DN and it takes a lot of the pressure off from relying on the scaling resists. 2700 HP as well. CS has both Tanker ATOs and with 3 proc attempts per 9.7s rotation thats 18 proc attempts a minute which is pretty solid uptime even with low proc rates.

The biggest issue with both the Tanker procs is that they both have +recharge on the same IO so it almost always lowers the proc chance of IOs (including themselves) once you actually slot them. It does not help that both ATO sets are chock full of +recharge spread amongst all the IOs. Only 1 IO in each set does not have +recharge.

I think its about if someone else has the same Interface Incarnate you still get the benefit from Reactive's higher damage DoT.