Maxzero

Super Speed Pool has Hasten. It does not need any help. In fact a case could be made for Hasten to become inherant.

The other reason I like Defence is protection from CC. Frost is mentioning that how active you are in pet management might have an impact and I think that is true for me. I wanted my pet 'module' to work independantly while I focused on my /Storm and power rotation. I am wondering how much extra effort I will have to put into pet management if I go Demons over Thugs.

I don't use Ach Heel in the Henchmen themselves. Enforcers are too slot tight as is with +def, 2 x -def Damage procs and then regular damage slotting. Looking in Mids I just can't see how they can compare defensively. You get a 5% res shield from Ember Demon and a weak heal on a 30 second CD. My Enforcers basically give +17% DEF ALL between them. The difference is striking. It's not like Thug resists are bad either. They get +35% from Pet IOs as is. On a Bruiser thats already to enough to get him to 60% S/L with softcap Def. I hate resummoning my pets because unlike other MMs as a /Storm I have PLENTY of powers to spend my time on.

Is it really? I have my current Thugs/Storm all min maxed out and have taken a break from CoH. Making a new uber build would be fun. From messing around in Mids Demons seem a lot more restricted when it comes to procs. Bruiser can run KB damage proc very well while Enforcers can run 2x -def damage procs just as well. Thugs can softcap to all Def with Storm while Demons do not even get close.

Auto hit PBAoE is BS for last fight. Real pain as a MM.

IIRC Ach Heel proc can only appear once on a target so it does stack from difference players either.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The greatest change in the history of CoH.

My setup for base damage, set bonus, def buff and procs: Sup Mark of Ascendancy ACC/DAM/END Sup Mark of Ascendancy DAM Lotg +Def +5 Lotg +Def/+global REC +5 Shieldbreaker Lethal Proc Lady Grey Neg proc

Both Bots and Storm are very strong powersets. While Thugs has a slightly better synergy it's not that a big of a difference.

Honestly nothing is realyl useful in teams except MAYBE a tank (usually to help gather mobs). Players are so strong now that everything is almost completely a zerg fest to kill as many mobs as possible. Just keep two things in mind: 1. Have decent AoE and/or a good AoE debuff (-resist or immobilize to increase kill speed) and pretty much any endgame group will be happy with you. 2. Keep your pets from doing stupid stuff like aggroing extra mobs or blocking doors and caves. Sometimes you need to unsummon them. Hence why I like /Storm since I can kill stuff without needing pets.

Yeah made a toon using this months ago: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1574;750;1500;HEX;| |78DA65544B4F1351189D99B6946929E55128484B5B5E85299D7694B8250111416A8| |8C5D7C290110AAD6969D34E232C5DF807DCB8D2C48D4B5726A03B238868FC11BA31| |2E14E3633D7E9DF3A54CD2499B73E77CAF73CF9D99CCEEA58E978B0F6705B16BBEA| |8D76AEB19BD66E4AAA5C2CEA6FB9A6ED4AB7A51A0CB9B3574A3B011CDE6CB869BEE| |836769EBD97AA954DE51D7F2F5ED5AC4C6CFD5B7B6D4AC51AE9638A5B0B32D7857C| |BE5A27AB958D8CE1B7E6BBD92D33773D55ABE50F158F7D94A2EB7E9435A238BAA42| |0B95C2866A6B9DD13772AC746F80E4A8F47FE712F8325DC22DA720684E41BAC378E| |4B0D079086C7FCFF727C08AB3594B3FBA8443EA26827188CF093459687BCAF80CE8| |792459D53239E2B0924DD1D1272276159D8FA88F8B3BBB6282C57553BE1BF9929BF| |3DB7DC0A80758234532725C72A768D50D7880535E60C0071CF603A31DC0631AE865| |27BCB7E140C71A6300FD3B796E671BE90C53EFCFD8CB0869F3F15E7C09EC534940B| |7412DFCEC897F46B2625D17193F019347C00FA4A19B35749F82EBF9C3F81B18F88B| |99FDFFD0BFFFAB64699148432F7BD66B9D8683983E56D517A4455816A6CEF319522| |CC84E05D9A961762ACA4EC5D899183BA5B07327A472D03A67D33578130E9DBBC138| |0795A179A80CED11F652EFEF941E770A3D347788350DC5E0549C4F3840B130EF20C| |C4E7FA45911E6229CF780468DB04B235FB09FD159CC1D65B7C68E997F8BF963FCD4| |ED52ED38D78E6BC89D4833A69033A102E349F071AEDDA79693A89526AF233695052| |A6BC0D79493E0FE897DEC6FFA15E301F44FB327C96FD098E4FE6F1C78271BB5EA0B| |D13AD5D41262A905E4A674F05A0967A1DD874F07144EB3AF69F64EE3A736D4F29E2| |A2D4CBA85D15A980B2DCC4C0BB362676468CF34386833579DCD2F8420F21B2277D1| |97009CF9C3437191E3A3889F9E71A218830F63CBA2F53CFDB4E74F22FF973DFF093| |4C41EE37CEE7A1A2C66DDB3AD75DB7AD5B65EA1574AE3F5A2D2DC9B79C5B65E569A| |EF83B9A434BF22E67F3BA6FB0F| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Should probably make a video of a pylon test. I know its DPS is well above my Ill/Storm and that build had 700+ DPS. Someone made a Demons/Storm that was almost 1000 and this build is a lot more min maxed then that. Didn't take Burnout since it is way too niche.

Once you hit Incarnate shifts all your pets are the same level anyway. I like Thugs due to good proc access and softcappable defence. Just taking them against Pylons and its a lot easier to keep a softcapped Thug build alive then a Demon one. The highest DPS secondary is /Storm and Thugs works a lot better with in then Demons.

Because due to the way the DoT is calcuated (each tick tests to hit and if it misses that DoT stack is removed) without 75% chance then DoT is completely worthless. The -max Hp debuff only really matter for big stuff like AVs and such and between the pets and your attacks you can easily keep it a max since each debuff only need to test to hit once.

Radial Muscle for Alpha Core Ageless for Lore Radial Banished Panth for Lore Radial Degenerative for Interface Radial Assault for Hybrid Core Ion for Judgement Doing them in that order too. Almost got Hybrid done so I can do some testing but I have been doing other things.

Kinetics is terribly overrated for MMs. Much of pet damage comes from procs which is unaffected by damage boosts. Add to that Speed Boost recharge bonus does not affect pets. All you get is the damage bonus. Running Muscle Alpha my pets are already at +220% damage (100 base + slotting + Alpha). 10% from Hybrid puts you to 230%. Your Soulbound pet (typically slotted in your most damaging pet) will be getting +100% from the proc to put it 330%. The cap for pets 400%. So you most damaging pet will be getting a limited boost.

The Soulbound proc works a fair bit better. The Gaussian's has half the duration (5.5s) and only 80% damage boost.

Good to see another MM seeing the value of personal attacks. Yes our damage scaling isn't great but I see way too many MMs using that as an excuse to stand (float?) there doing nothing leaving all the heavy lifting to the pets.

My gut feel is the damage procs are probably better. The damage boost is 80%. Assuming 100% damage slotting that BU proc is going to increase your damage 40% overall (200%->280%). Looking at the MM Pylon thread the general result is that each damage proc does 25% of a Enforcer's damage. Make sense since -def damage procs work in almost every single Enforcer attacks (except Blast Clip) and with the moderate cooldowns a rotation would have a pretty good proc rate. Now if you had a 3rd slot for damage procs it would be fine. But Enforcers rarely have that many slots free.

The question then is since Enforcers are so slot tight are the buildup procs better then a regular damage procs?

You sure about that? Bot shields are 7.5% def all. x2 with 55% from slotting is 23.75% def all. Uniques are 2 x +5% defence. Manuevours is 2.93% def with 55% slotting is roughly 4%. 23.75+10+4 = 37.75% where is the last 7% coming from? Incarnate is 5%. Unless you are running Alpha with +def too. But that's such a big investment for some pretty iffy gains since Agility or Nerve are only average for MMs. I know these numbers well because Thugs are 2 x 8.47% base def all and I can't softcap them without Steamy Mist.

The problem is dead pets do no damage. Ninja's have no resistances and Thugs have better +def values (Enforcers) then them. Throw in Gang War for burst damage and Pet unique slotting and its a no brainer.

Keep in mind the hybrid double hit or damage boost proc is actually really wonky with pets. It won't work unless you summon pets while its toggled on. After that it will.work normally but the pet dies or you zone. Its quite the pain.

Basically you cast multiple Tornado, Lightning Storms and Freezing Rains and all their damage/debuffs stack. You can do this with high recharge. While they are on cooldown you use personal attacks which while only doing okay damage can proc FF +recharge IOs that help your big hitters recharge faster. While all this is happening your pets are DPSing independently of you. If I get around to finishing my Hybrid Incarnate I will be hitting up the pylons for some videos. I honestly expect 1000+ DPS to be doable if Frosticus' attempts are anything to go by. Unfortunately my Astra Militarum army (table top wargame) won't paint and play itself so I am a bit busy at the moment.

Toggle toggling new meta. I can imagine someone toggling a series of toggles as their DPS rotation.

Okay back from holidays and latest revision: | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1526;727;1454;HEX;| |78DA65544B6F125118BD3340E940813EA0B4165AE88B026560B471DBA4B51AB5984| |6EA6B619AB1A580E1151862BB74E11F70E34A13372E5D99B4BA33B6D66AFC11BA31| |2EB4C6C71ABFCEF9D24EC20472EE9CEF75EEB93393DDBAD0F3F2D2C37921F52E96F| |566732DAB378D7CA352AA6E38AFE946ABA197055DEE9CA11BA5F548AE58339C741F| |3C4D5BCBB52A955A555D2DB60ACD310BBFD0DADC547346AD51E19452B520DC2BB55| |A59BD582E158A86CF5C2FE7F58D7CA3592CD55DE67DAE9ECF6F7890769C4555A1A5| |7A695DB5B4CEEAEB7956BA3D447212F47FE7107CB51DE2965D08CD2EE43B8CFB361| |3ED7BC0EEF77C7F08ACDB4F6AE94797D8A36E12189BF49C405344D753C66740D723| |D9AC56C8119B99DC966C0109B1ABE8BC4F7D1CDCD9111526D747F94EE4CB4ECEEFF| |600232E60931429C871285EC9AC1B7201E36EA0DF031CF501233DC0031AE86627DC| |B7E140CF2AA31FFDBD3CD7DB453AC3D4FB33F6324EDA3CBC174F12FB4C24A1DBA01| |63EF6C437279BB1DEF38C9F80A97DE007D2D0C71AFA8EC0F5FF61FC0DF4FFC5CCC1| |7FE83FF85536B5C8A461803D1B304FC3464C80550582B4082B227E96CF906241762| |AC84E8DB25311762ACACE44D9A9043B77482A8759E5F04D3874E606E302548616A1| |32B44D3840BDBF537ACC2EFA69EE086B1A89C2A9189FB09F6261DE41989DFE48B3C| |6981BE3BC07346A9CE78F7FC17E26E6317782DD9A3C60FE2DE64FF253B745B5535C| |3BA521773AC39846CEB40A8CA5C0C7B876875ACEA0569EB98E583C074CAC025F534| |E92FB2777B0BFD9578CBBD03FFB0DDA52EC4D8AFBBF215AE55AF585649E6AFA3262| |E925D4A475F05A0567A1DD874FBB14CEB0AF19F64EE3A736D4F19E263A984C07A37| |530E73A98B90E66D9CA28D09E3DE6A0ADBD623FF9420889DF10A597BE04E0DA3F5C| |1497383E81F8D129274951F8307945329FA79FD6FC19E4FFB2E63F8186E8639CCF5| |DD7318B59F72C6BDDB25EB1AC97E995D278FD1F1B94F123| |-------------------------------------------------------------------| Using the latest Mids. Missing IOs in Enforcer are: Lotg Defence +5, Lotg global recharge +5, Shieldbreaker proc. I wanted more AoE but I found Empty clips really lackluster. So I looked a Mace Beam Volley. It's CD is perfect for messing with procs too. So with 12.5% -res (75% chance to proc), FF +recharge (48% chance to proc) and 2x damage procs (85% chance to proc) I found a really impactful AoE with decent arcs (35*) and range (50') and a 16 target cap. Feels really good. Build wise I am about done. All I need to do is get T4 Interface and Hybrid and do some Pylon tests but honestly I am not too fussed. It's damage is clearly way above my Controller, it exemplars better, AoE's better (AoE Immo) and is better in groups. Really happy how it turned out.