arcane

If the enemies are fighting back you are no longer testing DPS….. if either player is clicking heals or hiding or even moving, DPS is no longer the thing being measured. This is turning out like the time Mez said you can optimize DPS and defenses in the same build simultaneously and instead of providing supporting evidence he just kept challenging me to a radio mission clear time race… which doesn’t…. even…. measure…. DPS…

I don’t understand know what you’re saying. Do you seriously think tested DPS is not correlated with overall performance and that those numbers have no bearing on balance? And can you please tell us what the alternative is for testing DPS? Is there a better standard we’re unaware of? You also brought up survivability as if changelings are doing as much damage as Scrappers and Blasters at the *expense* of survivability, but the exact opposite is true. Kheldians are easily the most durable of that bunch *and* they’re leaving them in the dust on damage. So your argument about what the pylon tests neglect actually works in my favor.

The point of the pylon test is not to capture realistic combat. The point of the pylon test is to isolate a variable. The fact that it ignores other variables is why it is a valuable and good test in the first place.

I'll see what I can find. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rSgjI4tZ19_jLQi3kOjq0phnOC9LlQ-eOjO6O6qm68M/edit?gid=0#gid=0 Division 4 bans temps and signature summons, so I primarily looked at those. Not a fan of including Geas in pylon runs so maybe round those DPS numbers down a smidge. But I see America's Angel and Laucianna both doing obscene numbers in Division 4. Lauci has commented on her DPS on page 1. Clam was close here. He would've needed to record the alleged 62 second run he mentions to pass 700 DPS though. I could've sworn Koopak did some Kheld runs himself but I'm not finding the data anywhere. That's what I got for now I'm going back to work. I recall it being cited that a couple of people outdid changelings with scrappers so changelings must not be that good. IIRC one of the testers mentioned in that post was Ratch. I see Ratch's *Titan Weapons/Bio Armor* scrapper (not exactly the median we were talking about) did not quite beat Lauci in Division 4.

I knew someone would say this but (1) is there any other established alternative for testing S/T DPS? and (2) it’s not like the pylon test’s problems are going to overestimate one AT’s performance and underestimate another - the skew is in the same direction. If it’s apples to apples testing, what better way is there?

Pylon times such as by Lauci and others. If we run every scrapper powerset combo through the same testing parameters, I am comfortable betting money that anyone who thinks that the entire upper half of the scrapper performance spectrum is over 700 DPS is being untruthful. My guess at where that narrative came from? A couple people interested in protecting the exploit managed to barely surpass that bar, with probably a BA/Bio or EM/Bio, and then they decided to wildly exaggerate. As someone with a lot of old pylon test data, I can assure you that 700 DPS is an insane amount of DPS, at least for non-pet classes and standard no temps no geas etc rules, and especially for a class with near Tanker mitigation levels. My understanding of the numbers based on broader testing experience is that 700 DPS puts you far ahead of the median Scrapper or Blaster. Unfortunately you’d have to test a lot of powerset combos to fully demonstrate that whereas the HEATs only have one character to test. But I’ve tested enough high damage characters to know if something is failing the initial smell test.

Maybe just don’t join dogpiles when you haven’t the faintest idea what’s going on

I urge you to learn what the fuck you’re talking about. Considering you didn’t know what a changeling was a few posts ago, I will give you the benefit of the doubt for once and assume you are not a liar.

Assuming you are either (1) someone with no history of DPS testing who took a lie at face value or (2) maybe you’re just someone who lies.

I mean you guys are really owning that straw man. When you don’t have a counterargument to what was said, lie, misrepresent, mock… I understand the formula guys I really do.

I haven’t seen evidence to support the assertion that 50% of scrapper powerset combos are pumping out numbers in excess of 700 DPS. But even if that evidence *did* exist (which I don’t believe it does), then I would say it’s *still* not acceptable unless we lower Kheldian’s damage resistance caps to 75%. RE @ivanhedgehog changeling is the popular name for any kheldian that uses binds or macros to break/bypass the game’s power animation system and thereby dishes out instantaneous attacks that make the character’s DPS skyrocket. The developers went to fix this egregious exploit, but some popular kheldian mains convinced them of some crackpot notion that they aren’t allowed to patch the exploit until they’ve overhauled the kheldian archetype. That was years ago.

1) Mathematical data points that prove that Changelings are wildly overpowered. 2) Obviously anything that can break the game’s animation system with a click of a macro is broken. 3) The players abusing them most are clearly deterring the developers from fixing the cheat in a more timely manner. 4) Anyone who wishes to play a Kheldian without the cheat is going to be bothered by dumbasses recommending cheating to compensate for your DPS.

SS isn’t crushing the opposition because it is balanced by the Rage crash. If you see SS merely tying for 1st place with the Rage crash, that means SS was actually the clear front runner before being balanced by the crash. Reading comprehension helps

You are still thinking about this incorrectly. SS is only not outperforming things because the crash is there to balance it. You seem to be confusing SS pre- and post-penalties.

I’ve been playing it for over half my life and don’t wanna do other stuff idk this question is hard. The community also has a part to play. Some people make me want to stay. Some people make me want to leave.

My understanding is that all testing, be it pylons or trapdoors or ston missions, is going to show the net effectiveness of Super Strength after any “penalties” are applied. So if SS has come out as S tier post-penalties, then ParagonKid is just plainly mistaken or purposefully untruthful.

IMO: 1) The changeling cheat is so egregious that waiting for a Kheldian revamp before fixing it is only appropriate if the developers are actually going to prioritize said Kheldian revamp in good faith. This is clearly not the case as the cheat has existed for years and through numerous big patches. Allowing the cheat to exist in the game for years is so wrong that I do want to hear the “we’ll get a revamp eventually” excuse anymore. The cheat needed to be deleted years ago. 2) The changeling cheat was only allowed to continue to exist because a few hyperpopular changeling players threatened to set the discord, the forums, and the city on fire if we took away their overpowered cheat. Typical blackmail, whatever. Many will abuse the cheat but say they only want changeling around until Kheldians get a revamp, which conveniently further delays the fix of an egregious cheat. The point is: some players are complicit in changelings not being fixed yet. I’d say the people actively educating people in public on how to break the game and encouraging people to abuse this exploit for years… well I’d certainly be okay with them having a week off. Their lobbying has done a lot of damage and I do not care what happens to them.

If needing help post build screenshot

1) Addiction 2) Sometimes fun

6 mandatory SS powers feels fine to me. 4 mandatory powers for old Plant Control was a bit excessive though.

IIRC Plant Control was that way and people screamed bloody murder when that model was torn from them. Nobody here is sincere about having a problem with skippable powers as long as the performance is there.

It is?

None of my Tankers have room for more than 6 powers from their secondary, so after Level 1 / Haymaker / Taunt / Knockout Blow / Rage / Foot Stomp, I really could care less if the trash powers I can’t take on any Tanker are a little more trash than usual. In the end, Super Strength was the only set I have picked more than once for my squad of Tankers. Primarily because perma 20% tohit prior to enhancements makes the proc meta insanely easy to build for. Sets are primarily defined by their best powers and not by the average of all 9 powers, unless you’ve got a bizarre example I haven’t thought of. And sets that manage to make a meaningful contribution without 9 powers are actually at an advantage in many ways

Actually some of us like the extremely effective powers more than the generic boring idea. If you need pointers on leveraging the set properly we are here to help.

Thinking of Frank Costanza’s battle cry of “Stop crying and fight your father!”