Doomguide2005

Hard (nay impossible) to argue with that having seen what all VEAT teams can do shortly after release on Live.

Work (thoughts) in progress. Based on a group my friends and I started towards the end of their active time on CoH. The group called itself Hot Feet and Hula Hoops. 4 Fire/Sonic Controllers 2 Fire/Kin 2 Fire/Cold 2 Fire/Trick Arrow Not sure just how much damage resistance is typical among foes (ITF and ASF). TA is there to strip hopefully significant chunks and add defense. Hoping to come close to flooring their damage resistance when all is said and done while capping damage. Between Flash Arrow, Smoke, Maneuvers and Cold Shields to manage the defense side. Nothing should see us even with Tactics given the value and volume of Perception debuffs getting used assuming theirs carries no resistance to the debuff. But hey it is a dream team ... question is how much a nightmare for the foes.

It'll also be easier (in Hover) to do with Darkness Mastery rather than Soul Mastery. The first is a 15ft radius (sphere) vs a 10ft radius. Melee powers tend to have a 7ft range tops. Of course if you're only 4 or 5ft above you're are probably still safer as less melee attacks overall are headed your way. Many of the PBAoE attacks are (were??) Area, 'Typed' like Spin or Whirling Sword are 8ft.

@Norl Both Numina's and Regenerative Tissue as well as Miracle are "proc 120's". They work in any power for 120 seconds after the power is activated: In an Auto power like Health this happens pretty much as soon as you log in. The power then continues to 'activate' every 10 seconds. The bonus does not stack (or isn't supposed to there was a time when zoning could cause the bonus to stack. It was a bug.) In a Toggle it provides the bonus upon activation and renews it every 10 secs continuing for 120 seconds after the last activation upon detoggling. In a Click they activate and continue to provide the bonus for 120 seconds thereafter. So they will work in click powers like Heal Other, Frostwork, or Instant Healing but only for 120 seconds after being clicked (activated). After which you need to be to click the power again for the bonus to apply. First two that's often not an issue especially if teamed but is rather problematic with IH givens its recharge is much greater than 120 seconds. The 'works without any further attention' is one reason Health is often the choice. No concerns about retoggling or clicking to regain the bonus. If you're upright (not dead/defeated) an auto power means the bonus is applying. Edit: seems my reading comprehension is off. You seem aware of how they work in general. Just some specific goofiness around the toggle sustain in Earth Manipulation ... so hopefully the post helps someone else.

Yes! Remember the first time I saw that. Running my Emp/Dark paired with a friend on his Fire/Fire blaster. He got one thrown on his head. He died. He was laughing too hard to use a green inspire and I was laughing too hard to use Heal Other promptly. Which, of course, made us both laugh even harder.

Can't argue with any of that. Just offer options like 4 Shield Wall for the E, N resist bonus. Just kind of depends on how slot starved you are. 5 sets of the Shield Wall, for example, is over 22% resistance which on an unknown team could be very nice to have especially during the second mission of the ITF. But that is also very slot intensive. I've seen builds with just a LotG 7.5 in the Shields but seems we agree they should at minimum fully enhance the defense which with LotG sets is 3 slots. Or 5 or 6 slotted Frostwork for the recharge (either 7.5 in Panacea or 8.75 in Preventative Medicine). Or what's the difference between 2× +5 boosted Heal/Rchg and 3× unboosted Heal/Rchg. Enough to justify the slot?

Oh like that's an exception around here 🤪

I can't use Mids and it's going to depend somewhat on if you team primarily with the same folks and or PuG all the time with random builds. Infrigidate - varies from 1 up to 6 depending on how proc heavy you go. I'd say it's not uncommon to see 4 on many when using procs. Ice Shield - for HM i want them fully enhanced for defense. That means at least 3 upwards to 5. If 5 that's 1 LotG 7.5 and 4 Shield Wall (chasing E/N resists bonus) Snow Storm - probably skipped, 1 slot wonder otherwise Glacial Shield - see Ice Shield. Note both can tack on slots for resistance and defense uniques over stated amounts. So potentially 6 slotted. Frostwork - 5 or 6 slots for HM content. Arctic Fog - 6 slots again want to fully enhance both resists and defense. Benumb - 2 or 3 max recharge, add acc if needed (good global accuracy plus team To Hit buffs hopefully means acc enhancement is unnecessary. Sleet - 2 or 3, get the recharge maxed Heatloss - ensure maxed recharge (2 slots), otherwise up to 6 chasing set bonuses. That be where my thinking would start and give and take from there based on overall build needs.

The base difference in Health is nearly 300 hit points. Combine that with taking 2.5× the damage at their respective resistance caps is a recipe for damage issues comparatively.

And you can Power Boost, PBU, use Clarion on the shields and it provides AoE mez protection neither of which Cold can do. Really comes down to what the team as a whole needs. It's very easy to need substantially more defense than what a single Cold alone can provide at 4-star. Force Field may lack the rest of Cold's debuff capability but it can add mez protection and more defense than Cold. The strongest teams are generally going to have multiple buffer/debuffers, like both a Cold and Force Field character.

Yes, I believe so per CoD

1The majority of secondaries will work well. Mine was a Cold/Ice. Things crawled around slowly trying to leave various patches (Avoid effect) as he stacked single target blasts on bosses and survivors of the general AoE carnage (Ice Storm, Blizzard). Rarely had an issue despite virtually no defense while teamed as foes were hit by lots of slow movement and recharge debuffs. Anything coming his way moved slowly at best (easy to out maneuver) while getting pounded by single target blasts.

Yep, know which opponents are your trouble-makers. In my Cimeroran example, to be fair, none are really mez problematic but the bosses crit and well it's painful even if you do survive and then there's the debuff on top of that. And you have to keep them from using the 'breakfree' Shout of Command or the one I've stunned isn't anymore. Combat Jumping carries Immobilization protection, Acrobatics as mentioned has some protection from Holds. Sleep well fortunately the foes have the same issue we do. The next bit of damage wakes you up. Though my Kin/Psy went about nuts dealing with DE tossing spore clouds and chain sleeping him. Stun is the nasty one, far as I know outside of Rune of Protection there's no pool power that gives you any coverage. So foes that stun get high on my list of folks to watch out and get proactively eliminated. Sappers, Mu, Super Stunners and other end drainers are very annoying but usually it's more that they set you up than are outright lethal. No end makes everything rougher for just about anyone including those with mez protection, especially toggle based. Being Cold/Electric means your best bet is higher defense or breakfree skittles are your best bets to survive long enough to sap their endurance and ideally you have to get close as Short Circuit is a PBAoE attack. On the otherhand you posses one of the few ranged nukes. Stealth/Concealment can help there letting you scope out your foes and decide which foes and where to start things off. I've never tried the CJ+Hurdle leap around the corner or otherwise behind cover with Thunderous Blast but it would be high on my list to find out ASAP. And some powers, Sleet among them as I recall, you can use around a corner without ever getting exposed. Hit (and debuff) them with Sleet,*pause* foes start slowly to scatter (Avoid), step out from cover and give them hell as they 'Avoid' the patch sloooowly would be one strategy I'd be using.

Getting 'bounced around' sounds like kb problem vs mez (hold, stun, sleep). And that can be solved with an appropriate IO. Otherwise unless I'm using one of the mentioned I'm usually going to 1) mez them first, 2) knock them (kd or ku) 3) use a breakfree or RoP, 4) use defense (can't mez what you can't hit). There's also the Defense Amplifier purchased from the p2w vendor. My Emp/Rad solo'd Cimeroran repeatables on Invincible (?) the then highest setting by using Cosmic Burst on one boss while keeping the second on its ass by juggling them with Air Superiority, for example.

The most amazing crit ever ... Headsplitter in which I not only caught 2 foes on that swing but critted on both the minion and the Lieutenant standing behind him. *poof* went the red con minion and orange con lieutenant. Mine is and was a BS/Regen who's speciality was running the old Posi via Ouro with an SG mate nearly daily for a while on Live.

Which is why the 7th spot on the Time Force II competition was a Fire/Force Field. Keep in mind this was same issue IOs first came out. Sets weren't a thing yet iirc just the basic generic IOs. Cold was redside only, Time didn't exist yet so FF was there to buff defense. IO sets and Incarnates would make things very different these days.

My Fire/Energy (and me) learned to love Combat Jumping + Hurdle doing just this. Leaping back and around a corner, firing mid-leap to land around the corner under total cover.

Unfortunately I can't use Mids, my only internet is this phone so posting a build is not doable. Without consideration for Incarnate Abilities Get your positionals to ~48% Try to do so without using any set bonuses (other than the two +3% defense uniques) Generally I'd aim for 3 to 5 slots per FF, FS, Evasion. Last slot (if 4 or 5) will hold defense special IOs (Kismet, Shield Wall and Reactive Defenses) Passives 3 slots typically. If 4 it's because I'm intending to use Shield Wall for the set bonuses (E/N resists) Doing the above should see your DDR reach 95% Usually I'll have either Combat Jumping or Hover. My main build doesn't typically have a classical travel power. I'll often have CJ regardless. I just love the maneuverability of CJ + Hurdle Fighting pool ✅ Tough and Weave. I personally use 3 or 5 slots in Tough, 3 or 4 in Weave. Might end up with 6 slots in Tough to fit in both 3% uniques and the +max hit points as I haven't been able to update Mids to include it in my SR builds. Some of my builds include Maneuvers and/or Tactics. Maneuvers would be the 9th power holding defense IOs. Between them I'll have slotted 5 LotG def/increased rchg and probably 5 sets of 4 Shield Wall for the Energy/Neg Energy set bonus which is so prevelant in endgame content. Unfortunately I've yet to play a Street Justice so I can't help you there (and have it mean much anyway), but SR is fairly independent of what ever your other set is overall so any solid Street Fighting build you should be able to lift from a previously posted build. Post up your efforts and I'm sure you'll get further feedback.

Recharge on Fort is base 60 seconds, duration 120 seconds. So at the recharge cap an Empath can in theory cover 10 teammates. They need 7 in this case. It's doable but yes that's a workout to cover the team and only doable with a high recharge build. Hasten 70, Adrenaline Boost 100, slotting ~100%, Speed Boost ×2 100%, leaving the last ~130% to set bonuses. Meaning yes the Empaths personal defense is basically 2×3% IOs plus Maneuvers and Weave or about 18 to 20% making them very reliant on the team (staying tight together) to avoid getting splattered. Could it be done without the Empaths. Sure but you give up options, the Auras, and unless it's Force Fields or Time no PB/PBU. Thermal has nothing like AB and Pain's is single target and you lose the +defense on both. And yeah I'm biased when it comes to Empaths but I'm also intimately familiar what its like to be on a GM team and just how fast you recover Health at that level of regen plus multiple HA firing if/when anyone does take a hit. HA is pretty much identical to Pain, Thermal, Rad versions. EAff has the potential to do more but it requires stacks of static to reach that potential and has nothing like RA to boost Regen though I admit I've no personal experience with EAff and how easily and rapidly one can reach max that potential heal value for 8 targets. Okay I'll quit going fan boy for now ... it's the overall team that really caught my attention in any case.

Thing is the Emps are combined a major chunk of the +def provided, resistance is covered by teammates and is actually extremely strong on the order of 70+ before considering any epic shields (vs S/L/E/N) nevermind Incarnate Abilities. And yes unless they've negated the rule for Hard Mode you cannot be one-shot so a health bar that's constantly slammed to the top is rather nice. If you are at full health you cannot be outright defeated although I admit I'm not sure about autohit unresistable stuff (but any AT is screwed at that point). So we have about (warning napkin math) +140 def backed by high DDR, 70% resists, capped regen (2000%) and 7 of the 8 have potent AoE heals available. Then tack on about +180 To Hit and capped damage, capped recharge on the Emps (Auras on 10 sec cooldowns) plus sorts of damage and to hit debuffs. And all that is basically prior to epic choices i.e Power Boost/PBU, Armors, Soul Drain and we haven't touched Incarnate Abilities at all either. Now are there other combos of ATs as tough, more than likely but I doubt there's much if anything tougher and harder to kill than those 8 would be. If there is I'd love to hear and learn about it. About the only thing I'd love to wiggle in there is Trick Arrow for its debuff resistance debuff but there's no way I'm seeing.

In many ways that's kind of my point about the versatility of CoX. But 3 Empath's is a very strong force as a foundation for a team. Neither Pain or Thermal is going to put the team at 1600%+ Regeneration (trying killing the Tanker (or Thermal) while their regeneration is +2400% on top of their norms, that's well over Instant Healing levels -> the word hardcap enters the equation) or buff someone with +100% recharge plus . They do other things Empathy doesn't do ... but in a static team they (the Empaths) don't need to do that either, that can be the focus of other teammates. But you could build a very potent team around Thermal or Pain as well (Ask any team hit by stacked Melt Armor right?). I believe you're thinking as an individual within the team rather than as the whole of the team, what do I bring to the party not knowing make-up of the team rather than the composition of the whole that will be there each time.

🙂 Enlightening overall in the difference i feel between PuG and picked static team. @Ceejerposted a team of 8 in a thread in the Archtypes forums about pick your dream team for Hardmode content. Interestingly it uses neither ElecAff nor NAff (or Traps 🤪). I think this speaks to both the wondrous versatility of the ATs in CoX and the differences between a select static team and PuG (even if those folks are in the same SG, familiar with each other etc.). That team for reference (and because I suck linking anything, like a different thread, on this phone): 3 Empathy/** (Sonic, Dark and Fire) 2 Ill/Dark Affinity Controllers 2 Fire/Kinetics Corruptors 1 SR/DM Tanker I'd probably tweak it to Empathy Corruptors for the damage hardcap everyone will be enjoying. Tanker could likely be one of several as well. Which begs the question of what would a team of selected T3 sets look like and function by comparison to that of top tier.?

Perhaps. Then again some teams probably still insist on needing a Healer before starting anecdotally speaking.

Guessing no it would not be typically. No change in proc rate no change in damage output.

I believe it was the same on the Live forums. CoH was shortly after I started using it as a forum and internet name (outside of work and other 'official' stuff). I joined right at the tail end of i3 and kept hearing all about the new issue about to drop. Total internet newb I had no clue about what the hell an issue was and hadn't yet discovered the forums. I just know I somehow managed totally different global, log-in, first character and forum names ... then eventually added a 2nd account with, of course, another name. 8 slots wasn't nearly enough for my raging altitis. And I have a long and storied history of in-game sound bugs, computer deaths, that had/has me living vicariously through the forums. Edit: heh, no my forum and global names still aren't quite synched up. It's just @Doomguide.